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Andre De Villiers Butcher – BAD BUSINESS, SHADY PRACTICES – ADV Butcher Knife

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CRKDMike - Look, I get why you got upset and responded to me in your second post with your passive-aggressive personal attack, calling me "nuts", "undiplomatic", etc... You didn't like it that I insinuated that you had no self respect. I get that. It doesn't feel good when your character is questioned does it? Well, on that same note, why am I not afforded the same right by you, to be offended by your post since the jist of your post was "I didn't have a bad experience with Andre, and I don't really believe what these customers are saying, so anyone who doesn't buy one of his knives based on these accounts is "Strange". I mean, it's easy to make a bunch of unsubstantiated statements, of which you have no knowledge of, and then qualify it with "but that just my opinion". It doesn't mean that you are not responsible for looking at the facts and respond with reasoning when someone questions your opinion. When I asked you to speak to why you felt it was ok for Andre to not refund my money, you conveniently chose to avoid answering that, and responded with I am "nuts". If you completely ignore the facts that have been proven with the posted correspondence and Andre's own words himself, if you believe you are being objective, then you are lying to yourself. You are the lamp post, not us.

As for a couple of the statements you mention in your latest post:

"They can pick and choose who they make knives for and for whatever reason they want"
Agree 100%. But do they have the right to not refund your money after they decide that?

"...and they can demand anything they want"
I have to respectfully disagree with you there. I feel sorry for you that you feel that way.

"No issues, and Andre was super helpful"
So why does that give you the right to say we our experience and account of what happened isn't true? Especially in light of the fact that we have backed up our experience with the correspondence.

"That was the focus of my argument...Misery loves company..."
I thought you were just here to express your humble opinion, not make an argument? If misery loves company, and you hate to argue and be miserable, why did you make an "argument" to begin with?

"Practice active listening, be kind, considerate... Good luck everyone"
That's a funny way to end a post when you start your posts with things like "Your nuts" and "You guys would argue with a lamp post". I would say to you, practice a little self-evaluation and get rid of the passive-aggressive schtick.
 
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I did do exactly that and even provided a photo. Please see post #29 where I provided the exact correspondence in verbatim.

Besides that, it's not about the $17 or the $50 anyways. It's about someone basically giving you the "f*ck you" treatment and having the self respect to not let him do it.

garzanium said:
I been burned by mechanics, shops ect before, surprised you guys don't finish transactions with "just to confirm, I'm getting the black blade, black finish, no holes, that's $450. Is this correct?

Learned this long time ago. I always take situations like this as $17 lessons... when you grown up in a place where everyone is out to get you, you learn quickly.
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Another thing that I would like to point out...

CRKDMike & Andre himself have made the point that he has thousands of customers with smooth transactions and based on that, and you should use that as a basis to discount what has been detailed here as an unreliable way to judge what kind of person and man he really is. Many customs and midtechs are sold through dealers, so to use ratios like that is junk science. Personally, I think a couple of stories (who have come forward) out of the numbers left over is a pretty bad. A smooth transaction also doesn't speak to whether a maker has good character or not, it just says simply that a transaction went off without a hitch. A bad transaction gives you the opportunity to see how a person handles an adverse situation. At the end of the day, it's not about ratios, it's about having the opportunity to glimpse inside who a man really is by his own actions, non-actions & words.

As others have pointed out, plenty of well-known makers have come to speak on their own behalf when questions have come up. It's just normal human nature to want to defend yourself. People who have good character and represent who they truly are, naturally in life (people who do not have a front that they want you to believe), are the first in line to speak on their own behalf, because they are confident that their true character, not the one they are representing, is impregnable. At the end of the day, Andre's own words and actions is what tells the story here on who the man really is.
 
Well that sucks I was browsing the forums as I was about to pull the trigger on a midtech butcher, but after reading this I'm going to pass. The knife community is not that big , and to many makers are willing to bend over backwards for their customers for me to even consider spending my hard earned cash with one that wont. OP hope this mess works itself out, and at the price point of a butcher their are many makers that like I said will jump through hoops to make sure you the customer (the person who allows a knife maker to feed his family), are happy and taken care of.
 
This guy as many other makers and members have made it too my Ignore list.
 
We get it. .. bad experience, no need to revive a thread the is dead/locked... beating a dead horse.
 
garzanium said:
We get it. .. bad experience, no need to revive a thread the is dead/locked... beating a dead horse.
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I'll revive my thread if I want to you bozo. Get the hell outta here with your 10 post history and again, if Andre wants to do damage control, tell him to man up and come here to speak for himself.
 
sugarleaf said:
i'll revive my thread if i want to you bozo. Get the hell outta here with your 10 post history and again, if andre wants to do damage control, tell him to man up and come here to speak for himself.
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roflmao!
 
I revived this thread because I got a personal email from another guy who is having problems getting his money back from Andre. That's three people now who have come forward who have all had the same problem. It's way beyond me how ANY maker could have this many problems on even getting to the point where people are asking for their money back. As a maker, if you don't want to follow through and honor your committment on what was agreed when you took the money, fine. That in itself is shady enough. But to sit their and play games and purposefully make it as difficult and tedious for a customer to get HIS money back is absolutely criminal.
 
Whatever my personal opinions have been on the two threads going on ADV, and they are both very different, the reluctance to refund money when it should be refunded is a common and sad theme shared in both of them.

I hope you all get this worked out.
 
sugarleaf said:
I'll revive my thread if I want to you bozo. Get the hell outta here with your 10 post history and again, if Andre wants to do damage control, tell him to man up and come here to speak for himself.
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Calling a fellow member a "bozo" isn't really helping your credibility here (you've fallen way down the ladder IMO). This is obviously becoming a very personal obsession with you. :foot: :thumbdn:

FWIW: I've exchanged several PM's and emails the past couple of days, inquiring with several very reputable member's here on BF, regarding their experiences dealing with ADV. All 6 member's stated that they were extremely happy with the way Andre treated them, & the knives they received were exceptional.

I can't blame the guy for not wanting to come on here & continue this never ending drama fest of negative energy...

Take a deep breath, & just let it go- you'll be a much happier person!
 
KELAMA said:
Calling a fellow member a "bozo" isn't really helping your credibility here (you've fallen way down the ladder IMO). This is obviously becoming a very personal obsession with you. :foot: :thumbdn:

FWIW: I've exchanged several PM's and emails the past couple of days, inquiring with several very reputable member's here on BF, regarding their experiences dealing with ADV. All 6 member's stated that they were extremely happy with the way Andre treated them, & the knives they received were exceptional.

I can't blame the guy for not wanting to come on here & continue this never ending drama fest of negative energy...

Take a deep breath, & just let it go- you'll be a much happier person!
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Yeah, it is personal and I never said it wasn't. If Andre is going to go out of his way to make life difficult for me, I'm going to do the same in kind. At least I have a good reason. Andre did it simply because he is a douchebag.

As for you contacting 6 guys and they all had a good experience, how does that change the bad experience of the three that have come forward? Every single one of us provided our message exchanges and documented the proof of the circumstances. For all you know, some or all of the six who claimed a good experience just bent over and spread their cheeks for Andre. And since they now own the knife, what are they going to tell you? "Yeah, he upcharged me after confirming my order, but I just went ahead and paid him" The fact that the exact same thing happened to me AND Tomalock tells me, that is Andre's M.O. and I can guarantee you it's happened to lots of other guys, who just went ahead and ponied up. The fact that three people have had problems getting their money refunded is NO COINCIDENCE.

As for me calling garzanium a bozo, sorry if you're offended and I am a direct and no BS person. If you are not going to contribute to the discussion with anything of substance and just make a snide comment, then you ARE a bozo. I make no apologies for that.
 
Kelama, just out of curiosity, do you own any work by Andre? Or are you just thinking about it?
 
sugarleaf said:
Yeah, it is personal and I never said it wasn't. If Andre is going to go out of his way to make life difficult for me, I'm going to do the same in kind. At least I have a good reason. Andre did it simply because he is a douchebag.

As for you contacting 6 guys and they all had a good experience, how does that change the bad experience of the three that have come forward? Every single one of us provided our message exchanges and documented the proof of the circumstances. For all you know, some or all of the six who claimed a good experience just bent over and spread their cheeks for Andre. And since they now own the knife, what are they going to tell you? "Yeah, he upcharged me after confirming my order, but I just went ahead and paid him" The fact that the exact same thing happened to me AND Tomalock tells me, that is Andre's M.O. and I can guarantee you it's happened to lots of other guys, who just went ahead and ponied up. The fact that three people have had problems getting their money refunded is NO COINCIDENCE.

As for me calling garzanium a bozo, sorry if you're offended and I am a direct and no BS person. If you are not going to contribute to the discussion with anything of substance and just make a snide comment, then you ARE a bozo. I make no apologies for that.
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Snide comment? Just because I don't agree with you, or your lack of civility in this thread?

It's absolutely no surprise to me, & becoming crystal clear, the reason WHY, you were not able to successfully complete a successful transaction, with ADV.

Now, I'm assuming that it's your life's mission, to focus every conscious moment of your life, vigorously giving it your all to destroy this knife maker's business/livelihood.

Seriously, I think that you need to get a good night sleep; you are really starting to lose it!

I would really appreciate it, if you would apologize to me in the morning...
 
Hey Guys,

Just a couple of things. I feel
And understand where sugarleaf is coming from. I became a member here because of Will Moon scamming my friend and I. There were people posting that Will treated them right, that is not relevant when you are the one out of ten getting the shaft. It's not right.

Sometimes customers can be unreasonable. That is why makers should not take money upfront, it causes trouble.

This is also what this sub forum is for. We need to stick together and drive out the bad makers like Alex dietz and moon. I added ADV to my do not recommend list.

There is no need for us to turn on each other, we are all knife brothers.
 
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Uh, I think you need to re-read my post because you are getting super defensive for no reason. There was not one single thing that you said that offended me and nothing in my response to you was directed as any attack on you, so I'm not sure why I would owe you an apology. I said garzanium (the guy I referred to as a bozo) made a snide comment, not you.

And no, I am not making it my life's mission to destroy this makers livliehood. In fact, it's a real hassle and pain in the ass to have to respond to posts like yours. As I said, he went out of his way to purposefully make it super difficult for me to get my money back, when it was totally within his power to be a normal, stand-up human being. He continues to do it to others, so sorry if you think the time and effort I spend to try and warn others avoid a potential nightmare offends you. If you don't find it helpful, then move along and why get yourself involved in a discussion in the first place?

KELAMA said:
Snide comment? Just because I don't agree with you, or your lack of civility in this thread?

It's absolutely no surprise to me, & becoming crystal clear, the reason WHY, you were not able to successfully complete a successful transaction, with ADV.

Now, I'm assuming that it's your life's mission, to focus every conscious moment of your life, vigorously giving it your all to destroy this knife maker's business/livelihood.

Seriously, I think that you need to get a good night sleep; you are really starting to lose it!

I would really appreciate it, if you would apologize to me in the morning...
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KELAMA said:
Snide comment? Just because I don't agree with you, or your lack of civility in this thread?

It's absolutely no surprise to me, & becoming crystal clear, the reason WHY, you were not able to successfully complete a successful transaction, with ADV.

Now, I'm assuming that it's your life's mission, to focus every conscious moment of your life, vigorously giving it your all to destroy this knife maker's business/livelihood.

Seriously, I think that you need to get a good night sleep; you are really starting to lose it!

I would really appreciate it, if you would apologize to me in the morning...
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I can understand sugerleafs anger or what you call 'lack of civility' to a degree, but considering you really have no 'dog in this fight' I don't understand your's KELAMA...

I have read and respected many of your opinions here in the GBU, but making this so personal with the OP doesn't make sense?

ADV seems to have an issue with refunding money, that is becoming quite clear.
 
Ok, ha! This is the PM I just received from Kelama. I'll let you all decide who is "unstable" here...

"I would be willing to bet, that you wouldn't have the ball's to say what you type on the internet, to my face.

You're doing an exceptional job, at making yourself look like a complete mentally unstable fool, with your inability to control your obsessive compulsive behavior. Get a grip on reality!

You really should get some sleep...

Goodnight."
 
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