Are there any real swords made out of black steel?

Okay maybe not high quality to the level that a $500 and up sword would be but I've seen razor sharp katanas, for $150 made of damascus steel. How does that not qualify as a good blade? I don't know maybe I'm missing something but I thought Damascus was the best. Here's a sword I found just as an example.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ikusa-Battl...780?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23209e841c
I think in the case of this sword, it's only considered Damascus due to the pattern. However the seller has 100% feedback which means that no one has been dissapoined with what they've gotten. I've seen several other listings like this and some even have examples of the swords cutting jugs of water or bamboo. If I'm missing something then let me know and I'm not trying to be an ass or anything.

Also, even though it's a short sword, I've heard a lot of praise for the banshee sword I mentioned and it's in the $150 category as well.
 
Last edited:
Resent said:
Okay maybe not high quality to the level that a $500 and up sword would be but I've seen razor sharp katanas, for $150 made of damascus steel.
Click to expand...

If I have a crowbar forged out of "damascus steel" and put a razor sharp edge on it does it make it a high quality sword?
 
Resent said:
Okay maybe not high quality to the level that a $500 and up sword would be but I've seen razor sharp katanas, for $150 made of damascus steel. How does that not qualify as a good blade? I don't know maybe I'm missing something but I thought Damascus was the best. Here's a sword I found just as an example.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ikusa-Battl...780?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23209e841c
I think in the case of this sword, it's only considered Damascus due to the pattern. However the seller has 100% feedback which means that no one has been dissapoined with what they've gotten. I've seen several other listings like this and some even have examples of the swords cutting jugs of water or bamboo. If I'm missing something then let me know and I'm not trying to be an ass or anything.

Also, even though it's a short sword, I've heard a lot of praise for the banshee sword I mentioned and it's in the $150 category as well.
Click to expand...

if you attempt to use that sword for anything resembling real combat, it will fail. That's not a sword, it's an SSO... sword shaped object. A real katana would not be "razor sharp" in the way that that thing would be. A real katana has a very different kind of grind, with no secondary grind at all. You could run your finger lightly across a katanas edge and not think it feels very sharp, then apply just a TINY bit of pressure and cut all the way to the bone without even trying. This is caused by the geometry of the blade, not the edge grind as you'd see in a pocket knife of machete.

it's made from 1065 pattern welded with some other steel and is monotempered. That means that the spine is the same hardness as the edge. This results in a dramatically reduced ability to absorb shock.

i would not use that sword for anything other than cutting milk jugs and even that might damage it.

I am not a traditionalist. I don't give a crap about anything other than pure functionality, and i'll tell you without reservation that that thing is NOT something i'd trust my life too...

The Banshee sword is a step up, and it's a competent cutter, but again, it's more machete than sword. There's a lot more to a sword than just being a piece of sharpened steel with a handle.

The steel, the heat treat, the edge geometry, all these are VITAL parts of what make up a sword. If you want a toy, spend 200 or less on a SSO and you'll have something that your friends will be impressed with.

If, on the other hand, you want a functional weapon that can be used for real cutting and would be capable of surviving real use, you're going to spend more

also, "damascus" as the seller calls it, it actually just a pattern welded steel. I would STRONGLY prefer to have a single alloy steel rather than some mystery pattern welded blade, with questionable forging. You won't find a usable pattern welded blade under $1000, and most of those are customs. There's good reason for that. Pattern welding, when done properly, is INCREDIBLY labor intensive. It requires dozens of man hours and is an art unto itself. Poorly done "damascus" is weaker than even monotempered 1065, and could easily snap on impact with any solid object
 
Last edited:
Yep, i thought about that one... Apokatana

zombie-tools-apokatana-2012-600.jpg


Another good option that will be INSANELY tough is the Scrapyard Knives Scrapizashi

ScrapizashiBlack.jpg


or if you want to splurge, the king of hard use SSO's, the Busse AK47. I have one of these coming from the custom shop, and i would absolutely trust my life with it.

images
 
Also don't forget the Swamp Rat Waki and Ruki. The Waki is handle heavy, but both would be tough enough to handle use to abuse.
 
The new scrapyard 1311 is more like a machete but it has a durable black coating and it's made of SR-101 (52100) steel.
 
gga357 said:
CAS/Hanwei Raptor series in 5160 are good blades.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i'll agree with this. I have a Tactical Wakizashi from hanwei with the same steel, and it's a decent sword. Excellent for the money

but no black blade.

They are running around $200 if you can find one.
 
Resent said:
No problem and sorry didn't realize there was anything wrong with calling knives weapons. What's that about exactly? So basically like any other blade, you get what you pay for with the coating. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Patina's actually a good thing? Definitley didn't know that. I did a search and couldn't find any information on it which led me to believe it didn't exist but I just wanted to make sure.

So that I don't have to make another thread, does anyone have any good suggestions for good quality black coated swords I could purchase? I've seen alot of short swords like that but not many full length swords(Besides katanas). Sorry if I'm not being too specific, the majority of the time I don't know what I want until I see it.
Click to expand...


In order to give a good answer on that question, we need to know your price range. Busse AK47 and Ruck, Swamprat Waki and Ruki, and the Scrapyard Scrapazashi, all come to mind when you are talking about a coated sword. I think modern useful sword.

They range in price from 1000, to as low as 300. And are as close to indestructible as you can make them. Will hold an edge very well (three different steels Infi, Sr101 which is modified 51200, a ball bearing steel, and Sr77 which is modified S77, a shock steel used for jack hammer bits)

Why the preoccupation with coating? Is it because you want a glare free, blacked out blade?

Non coated blades are fine, and will cut better (all things being equal) because they typically offer less friction in the cut.

You can turn a non coated carbon steel blade nearly black simply by forcing a hard patina on it. It protects the blade, and makes it less likely to rust.

That said, a mirror polish, or satin polish look great too.


The reason that referring to edged tools as weapons, is that it gives those who already believe that knives and swords are only good for being weapons, and should be regulated and banned (some countries are doing this very thing, outright banning swords, double edged knives, one handed opening knives etc etc, because they are viewed solely as weapons, and of value for nothing else).

The thought of having knives, machete's swords, daggers etc all banned here makes me sad, and sick. There are already heavy regulations that limit the ownership and primarily carry of edged tools or "weapons" in most states.

I don't see this problem going away.

Welcome to the site, and hopefully, some day, you will stumble across your early threads and chuckle.

Stick around, read as much as you are able.
 
RobCamlin said:
That, and the fact that referring to knives as weapons is almost universally frowned upon here. There's been a lot of trolls on here lately, so forgive me.

To answer your question: yes and no. A higher quality coating may wear more slowly and evenly, whereas a cheaper coating may wear quickly and poorly. However, with use, all coatings will eventually develop wear.

Also, a patina is oxidation. Whereas rust is an actual chemical change in the steel, a patina is a thin layer of iron oxide on the surface of the steel and actually is said to aid in preventing actual rust from developing.

Once again, with all due respect, I suggest that you start researching or using google for some basic information on knives and steel before posting threads such as this one. This is a friendly and helpful community, don't get me wrong, but it may help to avoid looking inexperienced or foolish in the future. In such a case, I understand that there may not be much to find as far as resources go, but on this forum and others is a wealth of knowledge and information available. I mean no offense, just some friendly advice.
Click to expand...


I find the OPs questions fairly valid... I mean this isnt an "experts only" forum. In fact I was interested myself about "black steel," though I had my doubts. Of course you can google many things, but sometimes you get better info by asking specific questions to a forum community.

Also, he can call em whatever he wants... I've heard plenty of people on this forum regarding their knives/swords as weapons, or rather, self protection equipment... each to his own. Point being, we dont need to be like the automotive forums(if you participate in any), where forum members "frown upon" or disparage new, less experienced members. With all due respect, it doesnt make you any smarter.

Anywayy, I'd like to bring up the Hartsfield Katana:
26.jpg


This is what got me curious about "black steel." Its done so evenly and nicely, all the way down to the very cutting edge. Google these up if you're interested ;)
 
Last edited:
I'm all about the black iron mentioned in the L.E. Modesitt Recluse series. Those would be the main reason I'd want a "black steel" blade. I'll have to experiment with a black steel finish on my first waki prototype. Pics to come later.
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
I'm all about the black iron mentioned in the L.E. Modesitt Recluse series. Those would be the main reason I'd want a "black steel" blade. I'll have to experiment with a black steel finish on my first waki prototype. Pics to come later.
Click to expand...

NOOOOOO!!!! you give me that waki and you make some crappy one to dick around with ugly black coatings!. That thing is too cool to make it ugly
 
It'll come off if I want it to, haha. That IS the crappy one where I failed to get the pins in straight. I haven't even started working on the newer waki prototype.
 
Okay guys, a lot of responses and weapons for me to check out so let me just clear some stuff up first. One of the reasons I don't feel it's neccesary to spend $500+ to get a functional sword is because of this guide I read. Just skim through it and pay close attention to the "How much should you pay for your first REAL sword."
http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/buy-swords-online.html#real-sword
If he was just talking than I'd be a bit skeptical but he also reviews swords and knives that are in that price range and shows them at work. Another reason is because over time I've seen quite a few good blades on ebay, although my views on what's a good blade is starting to warp with all of the new information you guys keep presenting me with lol.

Next, why I want a black sword in the first place. It's purely aesthetic. Black is my favorite color and besides I would prefer to hold that in my hand than a silver blade that would give off a glare. I'm sure they all don't do that though so yeah it's mainly just a prefrence.

@BePrepared
Obviously I don't want a toy or I would just spend $50 on a stainless steel sword and call it a day. I wouldn't be here asking all of these questions. So what, automatically anything under $200 classifies as crap? I refuse to believe that. I mean sure you might have to look a little harder to find the good pieces for that price but they're out there. In all honesty though, I'm a bit confused about the cutting tests. I thought the whole point of them was to show how sharp and tough the blade is. I actually have a 440 stainless steel katana at home. It was the first blade I bought ever when I was about 13. After I became a little older and found out it was junk, I tried smashing it against a brick. There was some nicks and other slight damage to the blade but it didn't break or anything. I brought that up because if cheap blade like that could survive being smashed against a brick then why wouldn't a 1060 carbon steel blade be able to survive real use?

I do agree with you on damascus though because that actually makes a lot of sense. However does that mean anything under $500 that says something like "features real damascus steel" is'nt reliable? For example, this one's from an actual compant called Shinwa.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shinwa-Blac...312?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4169e9d100
I haven't heard much about them and I wouldn't trust the seller due to their 0 feedback but the sword itself is what I'm talking about. Also if you search them on Ebay you'll find about 200 results with most of them claiming to be made of damascus steel. So are they just lies? I'm starting to think so but I just want to make sure.

@Maddogg774
See now those are seriously awesome. That Apokatana is definitley something worth saving up for. It's also the length I'm looking for, not too short and not too long. Just right. Does it come sharpened?

@Bigfattyt
Well while I understand your fear, I doubt that you have anything to worry about that at the moment. I mean just look how easy it is to get a hold of guns and yet the arguments for them having other uses than weapons are extremley slim. If anything, I would think that guns would be banned before blades. Thanks for the welcome btw.

@viper2788
Thanks man and it looks sick. I searched it up on ebay and got only one result for $6,000 though lol.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top