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Balls_tothe_Walls (Heath Helton) is a scammer

Discussion in 'Hall of Shame' started by thtieu, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. LastRodeo

    LastRodeo Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    He is still buying knives? The moderator on Reddit said the only condition they insisted on for him to be un-banned was that he could only sell knives in order to raise funds to pay back those that are owed money .

    He is certainly not still buying knives .
  2. bonky

    bonky Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 1, 2009
    Not going to bite your head off. I think this should be reposted in case someone missed it earlier
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
    Foghorn Leghorn Fan likes this.
  3. Postlapsaria

    Postlapsaria Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 7, 2017
    He's not buying knives from what I can see on Reddit. He is trading knives, which, to me, seems counterproductive to paying people back.
    Jsega51, benchwarmer380 and bonky like this.
  4. LastRodeo

    LastRodeo Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    I'm sure the moderators meant that he couldn't buy anywhere. Otherwise it would be pointless, he could use all the money he made selling knives on Reddit to buy knives other places, which would slow the process of getting people paid, if they got paid at all. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt they are smarter the that
  5. rpfote


    Feb 25, 2018
    One of the main issues here is that without knowing all of the facts, it is impossible to know if this situation is theft/fraud or just a breach of contract.

    For example, if I sell a knife, and it is lost in the mail, I haven't stolen the money. It is a breach of the contract, and there is an obligation to return the money.
    Now suppose between the receipt of money and the knife being lost in the mail, through unrelated and unforeseeable circumstances, I go into debt, and the money received is used to pay that debt. There is still an obligation to return the money, but it would be impossible to do so immediately. This case would still not be theft.

    Now, it could be theft/fraud but to know that, we need a ton of information that is not available. However, from a pragmatic standpoint, if the goal is to get people paid back, in either scenario (theft world or breach world), it would be reasonable to:

    1) Disallow BTTW to buy knives (because if its theft, we don't trust him to buy, and if it is just breach+indebtedness, he shouldn't have the funds to buy); and
    2) So long as BTTW isn't buying/defrauding people to get knives, allow him to sell so he can pay people back.

    This seems to be the approach of reddit Knife Raffle, and it does make sense.
  6. stonesell

    stonesell Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 20, 2009
    If Heath Helton is truly employed as Pricipal of the family Christian ministry, he should only be hosting church raffles, and Bingo games.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  7. LastRodeo

    LastRodeo Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Nov 2, 2013
    I don't disagree the moderators believe they are doing the right thing.

    I was rather surprised the person that had been staunchly defending him was suggesting that he would be buying knives

    I would have assumed he was not buying knives, but others know his character better than I.obviously.
  8. Boru13

    Boru13 Super Moderator Staff Member Super Mod Moderator

    Apr 25, 2000
    I thought he held a raffle for that.
  9. Tovarish


    Oct 24, 2016
    Nah, nah, I'm not saying he's buying knives. I'm asking how he "stole" knives from anyone. I hadn't even seen claims about stealing knives til I got here. Is that just confusion? For him to "steal" a knife, you'd have to mail it to him first right? I assume that means he bought the knife? But that would also indicate he purchased it before the event, which counters the statements about "still" buying knives, after the event. I'm just trying to hear from someone who thinks they had their knife stolen so I can ask Heath about it. Up to this point, this was just chargeback stuff in my eyes, the mention of theft is a whole new ballgame from my point of view.
  10. Postlapsaria

    Postlapsaria Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 7, 2017
    There was a specific knife in question here, maybe ten pages back. The buyer/seller since discovered they were not referring to the same exact knife. That was the only specific case recorded here I believe. I think there is also a justified level of suspicion since "a lot of people had money taken from them" (Heath's words three days ago), and he's raffled 19 knives in the past month.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  11. Peter Hartwig

    Peter Hartwig Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 29, 2008
    Has Heath sold stolen/ or knives not paid for?
    This is second hand info but would indicate yes
    There is also the Jake PT that turned out not to be the PT sold in Australia. However Heath was going(supposedly)to pay Jake from the proceeds. He never denied it was un-paid for. When it was determined not to be the knife Heath said he would be paying the proper person-so again not denying it was un-paid for

    I also would ask the ? of what happened to all the un-paid for knives. I haven't heard of anyone saying theirs was returned(though I am not everywhere, so it's possible). Certainly some were sold earlier or traded, but all? So if he is not selling or trading them now what is he doing with them?

    As I have previously said. I don't think Heath has put together a list of the knives he owes on, owners and what he owes. Otherwise why wouldn't he immediately responded that Jake's knife wasn't the one he sold and know who that can from. If he does have it seems to be incomplete.

    IMO if he sold a knife before the chargeback it wouldn't be stolen(necessarily-depending on if he is a scammer or not). If he sells an un-paid for knife after the chargeback, he knows that that knife wasn't paid for and scammer or not that is stolen.

    This was just a summary of some that that was said on the subject with some ?'s and opinion thrown in(I think you can tell what's What).
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
    bonky likes this.
  12. Lance Leon

    Lance Leon Gold Member Gold Member

    May 3, 2017
    I have to chime in here, regardless of opinion on Heath and the situation, we have once again come to a point where people are saying he's done something (in this case, stolen knives) with no hard evidence. People are owed money, yes, but as was pointed out earlier, that is a breach of contract, not theft. Since this was established and people still insist on the labeling, I can see why Heath, in the event that he is innocent (whether that is likely or unlikely is up to each of you to decide), would be taking legal action for slander.

    I'm just gonna put out a disclaimer: I'm not taking sides here, just making an observation and logical conclusion.

    Suspicion isn't grounds for stating something as fact, regardless of what you believe Heath to be.
    Tovarish likes this.
  13. Lance Leon

    Lance Leon Gold Member Gold Member

    May 3, 2017
    To add on, this is basically semantics, but the justice and legal system are full of semantics. Anyone who wants Heath in cuffs best remember that.
  14. Danke42


    Feb 10, 2015
    He "stole" the knives by initiating false charge backs on Paypal.

    He sold the "stolen" knives through a web of different user names across different platforms.

    The burden of proof of malicious intent for his activities was met with the very first bad act.

    This follows a very common established pattern of criminal activity. No maybes or what if questions needed.

    After that everything he's done including the current glut of new members who show up in this thread only and ask proof of said bad acts are textbook examples of this new school fraudster. They used to use telephones and move from city to city. Now the use the internet and move from site to site even returning repeatedly with new false IDs and even seeding sites where they can carry out their fraudulent activities with sock puppet accounts that can sit unused for years till they feel the need to chime in and support one of their other aliases.
  15. Postlapsaria

    Postlapsaria Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 7, 2017
    Perhaps you quoted my post in error. I clearly stated there is no hard evidence of stolen knives being sold and referred to the possibility as suspicious. I personally find the suspicion justified, but I acknowledge it is suspicion.
  16. KingMC

    KingMC The Pun-isher Platinum Member

    Jul 25, 2014
    By using money to acquire the knife and then taking the money back he ends up with +1 knife and net even with money and the seller ends up with 0 knife and no money for it, a net loss of 1 knife to the seller.

    So Heath now has a knife that's not his due to the voided contract caused by the chargebacks, and since the seller did not give it to him for free that knife was stolen.
    craytab, bonky and danbot like this.
  17. leghog


    Aug 10, 2013
    This thread truly is the gift that keeps on giving.
    Jsega51 and PirateSeulb like this.
  18. timw1

    timw1 Swamp Yankee Platinum Member

    Sep 28, 2011
    Quit trolling and go away already!
  19. danbot

    danbot Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 31, 2009
    Heath went silent here while the majority were still giving him the benefit of the doubt. At the same time he was still trying to do deals in the exchange with a freshly expired membership (and this whole problem being unresolved with no communication forthcoming).

    Yet two months later there are still many people who have not been made whole or even being informed by Heath as to the status of the situation. All anyone has heard from him is stories that don't make much sense coming from reddit users.

    No bank is "hiding" anyone's money from them.
    MJ713, Cvrobinson, stonesell and 6 others like this.
  20. Mark Boyles

    Mark Boyles Gold Member Gold Member

    May 3, 2017
    I have been following this thread for a few weeks now. I know this is my first "real" post, but we all have to start somewhere, right? Anyways, I have had some dealing with him recently (before I knew this post existed). In Dec, he bought a Gareth Bull Shamwari from me without issue ($650). In Jan, he bought a Boos Blades Smoke from me, again, without issue ($200). Finally, in mid Jan, we traded knives (Shiro Neon for a Karroll KC3). It looks like all of these transactions were conducted after his PP/CC/Bank "problems". Just thought I would share.
    dealda, Ramrodmb, Vaporstang and 5 others like this.

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