Bark River has taken $16,000 of My Money

[Sidehill Gouger]

"Don't blame anyone for being fooled. That's what con men do, and they do it well. The ability to look you in the eye and convince you he's honest is the talent he needs for that profession. Without that he'd have to go into some other trade, armed robbery or whatever...."

Now here is someone that understands Mike!

 

[cajun_frye]

all the moralists in this thread really make me lol... srsly

I'm sure some kind of juicy info could be dug up on anybody and everybody on this forum- knifemakers, manufacturers, dealers, collectors, fanboys, mods, EVERYBODY (myself included)... BUT especially all you self-righteous people that keep talking all this "honesty" and "integrity" crap - DRAMA FAGS is the term that comes to my mind.

I'm NO FANBOY, I've never met Mike Stewart or owned any of his knives, really never held a high opinion of him or his business... BUT I've actually gained respect for him after reading this thread, mostly because he has proven that he is REAL... and that he doesn't give a fuckall about what the dramafags of GB&U think or have to say about him... you moralfags can BAAAWWW all you want about how you think a business should be run, but that is all you are doing is BAAAWWWWing

tl;dr - Mike Stewart told this dood he would get his money back and he did... moralfags BAAWWWWWing still, I lol'd @ them

 

[wolfmann601]

As I stated earlier it was not my intention to change anyones mind. It's my personal opinion on the matter and the man in question.

Ken, I have enormous respect for you and know you to be a man of integrity, credibility, and honesty...........BUT

Your post, to me, seemed to be more than an opinion; I read it as you posting in defense of Stewart based on knowledge you won't post now with some expectation (no matter how slight) that we put alot of weight on what you say because of who you are. 99.9999% of the time a difference has arisen on BFC I have generally agreed with your opinion, except now

I may be one of those .6% who have no brains but my hairbrain opinion is based on conversations I have had in recent times with some of the finest folks in the knife world who have had horrendous dealings with Stewart. I believe strongly that the opinion I have of Stewart is based in fact and 100% different from your opinion that you say is based in fact. This is what makes for a good discussion I suppose..................

AND, the only dog I have in this fight is my love of knives and my deep love and enjoyment with the world of "simple man knife collecting". I think that gives me one heck of a dog, especially in something like this that has an effect on alot of the knife world.


Stewart's own comments made this all wrong in my book and while I will never agree with you concerning this issue.....................................................................I still love and respect the heck out of you!!!!

 

[3Guardsmen]

all the moralists in this thread really make me lol... srsly

I'm sure some kind of juicy info could be dug up on anybody and everybody on this forum- knifemakers, manufacturers, dealers, collectors, fanboys, mods, EVERYBODY (myself included)... BUT especially all you self-righteous people that keep talking all this "honesty" and "integrity" crap - DRAMA FAGS is the term that comes to my mind.

I'm NO FANBOY, I've never met Mike Stewart or owned any of his knives, really never held a high opinion of him or his business... BUT I've actually gained respect for him after reading this thread, mostly because he has proven that he is REAL... and that he doesn't give a fuckall about what the dramafags of GB&U think or have to say about him... you moralfags can BAAAWWW all you want about how you think a business should be run, but that is all you are doing is BAAAWWWWing

tl;dr - Mike Stewart told this dood he would get his money back and he did... moralfags BAAWWWWWing still, I lol'd @ them

I can see that you have a bright future ahead of you here, in fact, I'm quite sure, after your stellar post, that members here will be banging down doors to have dealings with you.

I'm always glad when members show their true colors early on. It saves people a lot of time trying to figure out whether or not they're good to go. Hey, you even picked the perfect forum to introduce yourself in!

3G

 

[3Guardsmen]

I'm NO FANBOY, I've never met Mike Stewart or owned any of his knives, really never held a high opinion of him or his business... BUT I've actually gained respect for him after reading this thread, mostly because he has proven that he is REAL...

So, you thought Mike Stewart was imaginary prior to this thread? You might be in need of medication, REAL medication, if that makes a difference.

3G

 

[cajun_frye]

I can see that you have a bright future ahead of you here, in fact, I'm sure after your stellar post that members here will be banging down doors to have dealings with you.

I'm always glad when members show their true colors early on. It saves people a lot of time trying to figure out whether or not they're good to go.

3G

:jerkit: I've been perma-b& from this joint more times than you have fingers and toes... LOL :biggrin:

 

[3Guardsmen]

:jerkit: I've been perma-b& from this joint more times than you have fingers and toes... LOL :biggrin:

Thank you for sharing that. Don't hit your head on the plank when you're kicked seaside.

3G

 

[wolfmann601]

I can see that you have a bright future ahead of you here, in fact, I'm quite sure, after your stellar post, that members here will be banging down doors to have dealings with you.

I'm always glad when members show their true colors early on. It saves people a lot of time trying to figure out whether or not they're good to go. Hey, you even picked the perfect forum to introduce yourself in!

3G

Yes sir 3G, you have this scholar pegged!!

Now I can put him on ignore with the knowledge that I will NEVER miss anything of value by this poster, he has proven his posts are worthless!!!

 

[3Guardsmen]

Yes sir 3G, you have this scholar pegged!!

Now I can put him on ignore with the knowledge that I will NEVER miss anything of value by this poster, he has proven his posts are worthless!!!

You might want to hold off on the ignore button, Wolfmann, Cajun_Frye has already fallen overboard, thanks to the quick as lightning super mods!.:thumbup:

Regards,
3G

 

[Cpl Punishment]

I think the moral of the story is "don't pay if you don't have the means to sell the items you're buying and expect your money back after it's been used to buy the material to make the items you can't sell because you don't have the means and the maker is covering his ass and doesn't want to get left holding the bag and then you get pissed even after you were told numerous times that when the knives are completed and sold you'll have a check".

See, Ken, the thing you don't seem to understand is Mike's ass was covered by being paid up front. IF Snarl had ordered these on credit, that argument would have some merit. Fact is, Mike was paid up front, it's none of his business what Snarl was going to do with the knives, or if he could sell them. Maybe Snarl wasn't going to sell them. Maybe he is starting a commune and their all going to live off the land with Kephart knives, but didn't feel the need to make it public.

Maybe he was going to donate them to needy West Virginia children who couldn't afford hunting knives.

Maybe he was going to hire a gaggle of demolition women to cut a different design in his backside with each knife, and they got to keep the knife as a souvenir.

Point is, it doesn't matter. Mike already had his money, including his profits (the $16k wasn't to make them at cost), he had nothing to lose.

 

[Arkeld]

I think the moral of the story is "don't pay if you don't have the means to sell the items you're buying and expect your money back after it's been used to buy the material to make the items you can't sell because you don't have the means and the maker is covering his ass and doesn't want to get left holding the bag and then you get pissed even after you were told numerous times that when the knives are completed and sold you'll have a check".

The moral of a story should, generally, be short and simple. This is a tad convoluted.

Also, it´s plain wrong. As said, it is completely irrelevant whether SS could or could not resell the knives. They were paid for, in full, and the deal was sealed in a written contract, a contract MS chose not to fulfill. This is a) illegal and b) not honorable.

The impression I get is that MS realized, at some point, that he could make more money if he sold the knives himself, which is why he now refuses to deliver them to SS.

The moral of the story, if any, is:

"If you get conned by somebody, sue them to hell and back."

Because it seems that MS would rather lose all credibility with the community than be a man of his word, all for the sake of a few $.

 

[oupa]

You know, I was sure that MS did not have influential disciples here at Bladeforums, but I miscalculated.
I knew about the Michigan Knife mafia, but had forgotten about the New Jersey Knife Mafia........

 

[shunsui]

5. Emotions have run high in this thread and while it's true that I may have fanned the flames (though not intentionally. Crap. Maybe I need to infract myself!) I, like many others, needed to speak on the matter.

6. If I have offended anyone I wholeheartedly apologize.

:thumbup:

 

[Trent Rock]

It will be interesting to see if JimConvex replies to this post

 

[CDNWIDE]

I don't see how reporting shoddy business practises over an extensive period is a witch hunt?

 

[shunsui]

I don't see how reporting shoddy business practises over an extensive period is a witch hunt?

I think the moderators read the thread with a different perspective than I do. I can just blow past a loony post and not even notice who wrote it.

 

[EDCeeker]

... then you have to burn yourself at the stake too....

ISTM some witch-hunters may have already managed that

 

[EDCeeker]

How could Mike Stewart be "left holding the bag", when he was already paid for the knives?

His expenses, including materials, time and labor, had already been covered in the agreed upon price had they not?

He could have thrown the knives in a lake and not been out anything couldn't he?

Then what of the $16k SS had invested?

Part of $16k, perhaps a substantial part, I don't know, had already been invested. So, as I wrote back in post #86 in this thread: What was Mike to do: Subtract what's invested in materials and labour, and send SS those materials and the remainder of the $16k? I'm guessing SS wouldn't have been happy with that either. Instead it seems Mike chose to carry-on with the project w/o SS and refund SS after he, Mike, could be made whole in the deal, too.

Perhaps there were missed commitments. Perhaps there were missed commitments on both sides. Perhaps there were miscommunications. Perhaps there were misunderstandings. Perhaps a lot of things. Perhaps they should have committed everything to paper, at the start, so neither side could later claim the other failed to meet their obligations? But one thing is certain: Some portion of $16k had already been invested in materials and labour by the time the deal went south.

ISTM that unless you're out to put Mike's head on a pike, you might consider how everybody's investment might best have been recovered, albeit not as fast as some might like.

Perhaps Mike did screw SS. But possibly, just possibly he did not. Thing is: I don't know. I don't know because I wasn't present during the communications between the two parties.

 

[EDCeeker]

I'm just curious, Ken how many free Barfies have you received?

Y'know, usually somebody who ends-up moderating does so because the operators of the forum and a goodly portion of its membership respect that individual and his or her judgement. I would imagine BF is no different. So it follows that Ken C. is a generally well-respected individual on BF.

Well, he was, anyway. Apparently now he's a witch.

 

[hardheart]

Part of $16k, perhaps a substantial part, I don't know, had already been invested. So, as I wrote back in post #86 in this thread: What was Mike to do:

execute his half of the contract.

boy, that was easy, no wistful speculation necessary.