Bears in the woods....

I remember reading an article a few years ago about a naturalist/scientist who specialized in Grizzlies. He was very experienced in their habitat and always carried a .44 Smith as backup.

When he didn't come back from a trip, his wife sent out a search party. They found his body, camera and gear. After developing his film, they found a series of photos of a momma bear (griz) and cub about fifty yards up a hill. The second photo in the series showed the momma bear more than halfway down the hill in full charge and the third was a blurry photo of what looked like a bear. The naturalist didn't have time to draw his .44. It was in the holster, unsnapped, but not drawn.

They can move scary fast.

Alan
 
Was that the world famous expert who died on Kodiak island, or another scientist?



munk
 
I seem to recall that a Griz can do over 50 ft/sec. on level ground. That scientist had very little time to react at that distance - fatally little.

Lion live in an environment where there are tougher critters around. A little prudence is advisable with Cape Bufs, rhino, hippos and elephant on the scene. Ole Griz has had no need to learn to avoid the all-out, knock 'em down, explode through the brush charge. :eek:
 
It is interesting but 20,000 years ago there were two members of the order Carnivora that the grizzly always had to fear in Amerca.

One was the American Lion, a match for any grizzly. The other was the Short Faced Bear, which was clearly far more than a match.

The Brown Bear aka grizzly replaced these as it was adapted to eat a wider variety of foods.

The American Indian had adopted things like the Clovis Point and killed off the other large carnivores, which made do with meat in their diet, but very little else. The grizzly eats meat, but meat is not the main item of its food.
 
Hope you don't mind me dropping in as I live in Alaska and deal with bears from time to time. Here goes a long post:

Black Bear - After it attacks you, it will eat you on the spot. Not fun
Grizzly Bear - Will attack/maul, then bury you, then pee on you and come back a few days later. You may have a fighting chance.

Bear attacks occur from either people not paying attention, throwing rocks, camping in the wrong area or trying to "pet" the bears like that one californian and his wife. A grizzly can run a football field in 6 seconds. I know I can't lol. They will move quicker than you'd think and it's not a straight "B Line" towards you. They zig zag. A .44 magnum (not special) is the MINIMUM up here and may help you. I know that one guy in Kodiak, was charged and after one shot from his rifle (It jammed), switched to his .454 Casull. He was lucky by getting a spine shot on the bear.

Another piece of advice, if the bear is in the distance and is standing up "chattering"/chomping it's jaws, as soon as it drops down, it WILL, not may, WILL charge you. They usually tuck their head down and to the side. (This is actually been proven and unfortunately witnessed by a friend of mine who has guided up here for 18 years). A 12 gauge with slugs (Buckshot is junk IMO and others) is the best option along with open eyes ;)

Hope this helps. Around here, if a grizzly shows up, surrender you're fishing hole. I have been 10 feet from three 2yr old grizzly cubs without incident. They will only attack if provoked or in rarer cases, aggressive/starving/ill/mother. DO NOT RUN PERIOD!!! This will only trigger the predator instinct to hunt/persue.

Someone mentioned the couple attacked in their tents, those people did everything right from bear proof containers in the air, to camping in a good local. If you are in bear country, shifts may help. It's better to be prepared, then next days news. Be safe and .44 Magnum is your minimum choice. I carry a Ruger Redhawk in .44 magnum. Lead nose, not hollow point, in a grain that I can fire quickly and ACCURATELY. That accompanies my Mossberg or Fabarm 12 gauge shotgun.

Remember... Better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it ;) :D

(Thanks for letting me drop by. I just got a mini khuk that I hope I will get to use this weekend for fish :D )

Edit: Forgot to mention, Avoid berry bushes and such. Some have come up on bears and suprised them. Another way to be attacked without provoking it :eek:
 
It may be true that back in the days [like a few hundred years ago] people hunted bears with spears. I am sure some were successful as well. I am not so sure about how many didn't make it. I guess they didn't keep any records...

Keno
 
steellover said:
It is interesting but 20,000 years ago there were two members of the order Carnivora that the grizzly always had to fear in Amerca.
. . .
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They must have short memories. :)
 
richardallen said:
It may be true that back in the days [like a few hundred years ago] people hunted bears with spears. I am sure some were successful as well. I am not so sure about how many didn't make it. I guess they didn't keep any records...Keno
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Only successfull bear hunters back then told stories; the others were brunch.
 
Everything was fine until the Committee of Elders limited spear length to three cubits -- then totally banned fixed-blade spears in the interest of "safety for all." Short, folding spears just didn't work out as well. :grumpy:

(Next week: The High Capacity Quiver Ban and the Decline of Archery)
 
I really like to haul in a couple cases of Guiness pub draft if it is just a couple of buddies and me. A keg of Yuengling Lager is good if there will be a lot of people coming, but you will have trouble getting it in too far. Oh wait... I thought the title was Beers in the woods. Sorry, please continue.
 
I think the bears would act nicer if we just understood them better. I have always had good rapport with them, as long as I respect their space, and keep my distance. Which, in this case - is several hundred miles. Close enough.
An acquaintance bought a .454 Cassul for bear protection. I asked him how he liked shooting it. "I haven't shot it." he replied. "How do you know if it works?" I asked. He gave me a disgusted look, like I was some kind of idiot. :grumpy: "Have you at least cleaned the barrel?" I asked. "Why, it's a new gun?" he replied.
 
That's funny about the new gun.

I like your bear policy. I don't live around Grizzlies in Eastern Montana, but I visit their habitat often enough.

It bothers me to hear the oft repeated, '44 mag is minimum'. I have to confess though, my own paranoia is so great I too want a 300 gr 45 Colt or 44 mag rather than a 250 41. I seriously doubt there would be much difference, and the 41 might even penetrate better. Hard to say, as we haven't lined up a thousand Grizzlies for flesh wound comparison tests. Theorectically, the BC and sectional density of a 300 .429 is slightly better than that of a 250 41. The problem with such comparisons, though, is speed and frontal diameter. Within the speed parameter's of typical mag cartridges, the 41 just might do better. In 210 vs the 44's 240, it out penetrates, the 44's extra powder capacity insufficient within the velocity range to best the 41.

But I'm paranoid. If I could carry a 80 calibre Howda gun I would. If I could have a camera mounted M1 Garrand on the hood of my truck I would. Grenades are good. Bazookas are good.


munk
 
What about a big stick mounted on the hood of your car?
then, you just have to get the car going towards the bear and hell get stuck on the stick.
Drive up to the edge of a cliff, and cut the stick loose.
Sweet!
 
A telescoping lance on the hood of the truck. I'm in. Get one of the engineers who frequent HI to design one. We'd better keep it stealthy as the insurance litagation would be severe.
How about a harpoon? You know, a whale gun? They call those punt guns?


munk
 
hmm, a used Japanese pneumatic whaling gun might just be the trick.
We'd need to file off the barbs , though, unless you want to keep the bear...
 
Munk,

Nope, I know the guy you were thinking of. The Californian who "loved" the bears, living with them off and on over a ten year period. I just read about his demise last month.

No, this was a different scientist. I think he was a bonified scientist... the other guy (I don't think) was a scientist...

I still think that new Ruger Alaskan .454 Casull is the bees knees :) Something about a 2.5" .454 makes me grin.

Alan
 
thomas linton said:
That's right: "Bare in the Woods."
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Argghh! what a scary sight that would be. anyone over 25 (maybe 30 after inspection & licensing) should be prohibited from nakedness - i know, i'm well over 50 now & scare myself when i look inthe bathroom mirror, definitely wouldn't want to inflict my nekkedness on the local fauna. it would keep the bears away tho....

dannyinjapan said:
... unless you want to keep the bear...
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Mmmmm - roast bear! and just think what your japanese neighbors would pay for the offal & paws, the skin would make great sheath leather....

kronckew said:
oh sh1t, looka that bear on the hill - it's watching us....
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i was stationed in kodiak, ak in the early '70's & we frequently saw kodiak bear on the mountain across from my ships berth on the bay at base kodiak. got tracked by one once (i was carrying a .300 winchester magnum with silvertips and felt very underarmed, would have preferred a .50 browning or my ships 3in. gun). the local innuit would hunt them with .22 magnum, of course they'd sneak up on them & shoot them in the ear-hole before the bear knew they were there. asked 'em what happened if they missed or the bear found them first, they shrugged their sholders, said their wife would start lookin for a new husband. didn't stop them tho. the local guides carried .458 weatherby rifles when taking the punters out tho justincase the bear surprised them & were pumped up with adrenalin.

i carried a 6in S&W .357 when i was out in the woods up there, not for the bear tho, that might have made them mad if'n i'd been foolish enuff to wing 'em. would be OK on wolves & smaller predators tho - or the deer (during season of course).
 
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