Brands to stay away from

[TradTrapper]

Drawing a blank on well-respected knife companies that have turned into lifestyle brands...
The only one of your complaints I can think of specific examples of is the sprint runs, although everyone is having trouble keeping stuff in stock at this point, given supply chain issues over the last 18 months.

i can’t always tell sarcasm via text, so maybe I’m missing it here.

Surfer knife = mini-Bugout ad campaign

Probably GEC. People are still super mad about the beer and sausage knife and then the one with a comb when they could just make more Barlows 24-7.

I’ve always considered GEC a 100% novelty knife company aimed at collectors. Maybe they didn’t used to be, but they always have been since I’ve had them in my radar.

 

[tomsch]

I'd bet on the next run of Taiwan sharks they'll produce more - I wouldn't fault them for not ordering more and being stuck with extras if they didn't sell as fast as hoped. As far has in house models are concerned: they run a small batch shop, and I'm sure in the future, given their current trajectory, they'll expand.

Just to be clear I do love my AD20! I did end up paying dearly on the secondary market but it is an amazing knife. I also hope that the next wave of Taiwan releases will yield more.

 

[Quiet]

Drawing a blank on well-respected knife companies that have turned into lifestyle brands...
The only one of your complaints I can think of specific examples of is the sprint runs, although everyone is having trouble keeping stuff in stock at this point, given supply chain issues over the last 18 months.

I mean...Zero Tolerance made their whole schtick about it. Plus, plenty of other companies have been all about the "tactical/tacticool" lifestyle.

Also, both Buck and Gerber have built up a lifestyle image out of owning their products on their Instagrams/social media.

 

[OrangeBlueOrangeBlue]

i can’t always tell sarcasm via text, so maybe I’m missing it here.

Surfer knife = mini-Bugout ad campaign

This? https://www.benchmade.com/yours-for-life
If you're bent out of shape about one of the 9 guys they profiled being a surfer and spearfisherman because S30V is "pretty stainless" rather than completely rustproof, then yeah, that's a bit of a weird rant. I've had my Bugout with me on two different weekend beach trips this summer, as long as you rinse it with fresh water when you're done, it'll be just fine.

I mean...Zero Tolerance made their whole schtick about it. Plus, plenty of other companies have been all about the "tactical/tacticool" lifestyle.

Also, both Buck and Gerber have built up a lifestyle image out of owning their products on their Instagrams/social media.

ZT has certainly had some "interesting" ads, but I don't think they (or any other prominent brand) is at the point where selling the brand itself has overtaken selling the product as the primary marketing strategy. They're not in Ferrari or Apple territory.

 

[K.O.D.]

Its interesting how ones perception of quality and or a good brand is as you get into a hobby, learn more about it.

It also makes me sad when well respected brands drop QC and/or make decisions based on politics.

We all know brands like WE and Kizer can make excellent knives manufactured in China. Why can't Biker and CRKT do the same with their Chinese products?

Simple. These brands are big enough to be well stocked at b&m stores where the majority of purchasers are oblivious and often just buy a new knife when it gets dull.

Shortly after I was finally willing to spend the money for a Benchmade, QC started going downhill. Then the giant price increase with map enforcement ended it for me. Going woke melting down guns and dropping Doug Ritter and HK was the nail in the coffin for me.

Thankfully, Hogue picked up Ritter and HK, and was kind of a match made in heaven what with the axis lock patent expiring at the same time.

Also thankfully, there are so many makers and brands that you have to actively search to not find something you like.

 

[Quiet]

This? https://www.benchmade.com/yours-for-life
If you're bent out of shape about one of the 9 guys they profiled being a surfer and spearfisherman because S30V is "pretty stainless" rather than completely rustproof, then yeah, that's a bit of a weird rant. I've had my Bugout with me on two different weekend beach trips this summer, as long as you rinse it with fresh water when you're done, it'll be just fine.


ZT has certainly had some "interesting" ads, but I don't think they (or any other prominent brand) is at the point where selling the brand itself has overtaken selling the product as the primary marketing strategy. They're not in Ferrari or Apple territory.

Well, that's what I'm talking about, really. I just don't think you can deny that some very well known brands have a sort of imagery they portray in order to make people feel like "See, if you carry our products, this could be your life!" As an example, about a year ago, Gerber was pushing the "Pacific Northwest flannel, bearded, tattooed, outdoorsy, leaning against a classic motorbike at a mountainview location at dusk while looking out over the land" kinda thing. It was almost like they were trying to be The James Brand.

 

[TradTrapper]

This? https://www.benchmade.com/yours-for-life
If you're bent out of shape about one of the 9 guys they profiled being a surfer and spearfisherman because S30V is "pretty stainless" rather than completely rustproof, then yeah, that's a bit of a weird rant. I've had my Bugout with me on two different weekend beach trips this summer, as long as you rinse it with fresh water when you're done, it'll be just fine.

Exactly this ad. It’s really cool. It’s beautiful. it’s well done. I personally like the message a lot. But nobody is taking a mini-Bugout spear fishing in the ocean. It’s a very well done lifestyle ad - for a product that would be a terrible choice for the activity depicted in the ad.

If this had been for the H20 Dive Knife I’d be all in. It wasn’t - it was a mini Bugout campaign.

 

[OrangeBlueOrangeBlue]

Well, that's what I'm talking about, really. I just don't think you can deny that some very well known brands have a sort of imagery they portray in order to make people feel like "See, if you carry our products, this could be your life!" As an example, about a year ago, Gerber was pushing the "Pacific Northwest flannel, bearded, tattooed, outdoorsy, leaning against a classic motorbike at a mountainview location at dusk while looking out over the land" kinda thing. It was almost like they were trying to be The James Brand.

There's a difference between a brand whose products support (even tangentially) a given lifestyle and who uses imagery to reinforce that, and a brand whose products suggest a given lifestyle regardless of what the product actually is. Ferrari can slap its logo on anything and charge a premium for it just because they're Ferrari, the image of the brand itself has subsumed the products. Porsche launched Porsche Design for the same reason. Browning has done a great job of it, and a Browning logo sticker on someone's car instantly suggests a particular lifestyle.

The only mainstream "knife brand" that's really ubiquitous enough to be a lifestyle brand is Victorinox, and it has been an actual lifestyle brand for a few decades now, after branching out into watches, luggage, etc.; the Victorinox shield has a connotation of utility, practicality, etc. (FWIW, I've heard the post-9/11 airport security rules killed off a huge chunk of their business, so the new product lines were developed to compensate and keep their space in airport duty free shops, so I don't think it was necessarily a conscious effort like Ferrari or Porsche). Most knife brands are so far off the general public's radar that nobody other than an enthusiast is going to draw any conclusions from a ZT or Spyderco t-shirt; the general public won't have any idea whose logos they are.

Exactly this ad. It’s really cool. It’s beautiful. it’s well done. I personally like the message a lot. But nobody is taking a mini-Bugout spear fishing in the ocean. It’s a very well done lifestyle ad - for a product that would be a terrible choice for the activity depicted in the ad.

You might be overthinking it; S30V is still stainless, it's not like they're pushing an M4 Bailout for use in or near water. I'm going to the Bahamas next week and will be taking my Drift and an H1 Dragonfly, but I'll take the Bugout too and let everyone know how it holds up...

 

[Quiet]

There's a difference between a brand whose products support (even tangentially) a given lifestyle and who uses imagery to reinforce that, and a brand whose products suggest a given lifestyle regardless of what the product actually is. Ferrari can slap its logo on anything and charge a premium for it just because they're Ferrari, the image of the brand itself has subsumed the products. Porsche launched Porsche Design for the same reason. Browning has done a great job of it, and a Browning logo sticker on someone's car instantly suggests a particular lifestyle.

The only mainstream "knife brand" that's really ubiquitous enough to be a lifestyle brand is Victorinox, and it has been an actual lifestyle brand for a few decades now, after branching out into watches, luggage, etc.; the Victorinox shield has a connotation of utility, practicality, etc. (FWIW, I've heard the post-9/11 airport security rules killed off a huge chunk of their business, so the new product lines were developed to compensate and keep their space in airport duty free shops, so I don't think it was necessarily a conscious effort like Ferrari or Porsche). Most knife brands are so far off the general public's radar that nobody other than an enthusiast is going to draw any conclusions from a ZT or Spyderco t-shirt; the general public won't have any idea whose logos they are.


You might be overthinking it; S30V is still stainless, it's not like they're pushing an M4 Bailout for use in or near water. I'm going to the Bahamas next week and will be taking my Drift and an H1 Dragonfly, but I'll take the Bugout too and let everyone know how it holds up...

Once the goal posts start moving I’m out. Your interpretation is just that.

 

[sharp_edge]

Benchmade quality is fine to me. Spyderco does seem to have focused a bit more on sprints and dealer exclusives lately (I thought a previous poster was implying Spyderco instead of Benchmade). I haven't bought any ZT recently but it's just because I am not interested in its recent releases; ZT quality has always been great.

 

[Danke42]

Once the goal posts start moving I’m out. Your interpretation is just that.

When folks make a knife to suit my life choices they're awesome! When people make knifes for other people's lifestyle they're terrible..

 

[Hackenslash]

Exactly this ad. It’s really cool. It’s beautiful. it’s well done. I personally like the message a lot. But nobody is taking a mini-Bugout spear fishing in the ocean. It’s a very well done lifestyle ad - for a product that would be a terrible choice for the activity depicted in the ad.

If this had been for the H20 Dive Knife I’d be all in. It wasn’t - it was a mini Bugout campaign.

You can get a Bugout in 20CV and S90V. There may be more choices available. I think you’re hating on the reality of advertising to promote sales (and stay in business) more than a knife company. I hate ads too, but you come across a the “get off my lawn” guy.

I’ve got no problem with a great, iconic knife maker staying afloat with image or lifestyle based marketing. It insures more choices for me as a Knife Knut.

Your gripe about sprint runs seems a little tone deaf in a pandemic stung economy when contracts and deals must still be honored

 

[dano]

Vnives. Some nice designs, but poor support... Had a Trailblazer, nice design, less than stellar execution, and it developed a bad lock. The warranty...well...I'm still waiting for it to be returned....months later.

 

[Tyson A Wright]

Exactly this ad. It’s really cool. It’s beautiful. it’s well done. I personally like the message a lot. But nobody is taking a mini-Bugout spear fishing in the ocean. It’s a very well done lifestyle ad - for a product that would be a terrible choice for the activity depicted in the ad.

If this had been for the H20 Dive Knife I’d be all in. It wasn’t - it was a mini Bugout campaign.

I'd suggest a different kind of marketing may have influenced you unduly...humans have been taking iron and then steel into saltwater environments for three millennia. But knife knuts have now been conditioned to think that anything that isn't H1 or something will immediately fail near water. I'm sure those are fine and useful steels, but all of the steels used in the Bugout line will do fine there, too.

 

[TradTrapper]

You can get a Bugout in 20CV and S90V. There may be more choices available. I think you’re hating on the reality of advertising to promote sales (and stay in business) more than a knife company. I hate ads too, but you come across a the “get off my lawn” guy.

Where can you get a mini-Bugout in 20CV or S90V? Now you are moving the goal post.

Your gripe about sprint runs seems a little tone deaf in a pandemic stung economy when contracts and deals must still be honored

I do not buy this argument. BHQ and KC combined have zero PM2s in stock, but BHQ have a mint green M4 PM3 sprint run. I like Spyderco but this is not a good situation.

 

[TradTrapper]

I'd suggest a different kind of marketing may have influenced you unduly...humans have been taking iron and then steel into saltwater environments for three millennia. But knife knuts have now been conditioned to think that anything that isn't H1 or something will immediately fail near water. I'm sure those are fine and useful steels, but all of the steels used in the Bugout line will do fine there, too.

Humans have not been taking omega spring, folding knives with uncoated blades on underwater sea hunts for 3 Millennia. I can’t believe people are actually arguing a Mini-Bugout is an appropriate knife for salt water spear fishing adventures. . .

 

[Hackenslash]

Where can you get a mini-Bugout in 20CV or S90V? Now you are moving the goal post.



I do not buy this argument. BHQ and KC combined have zero PM2s in stock, but BHQ have a mint green M4 PM3 sprint run. I like Spyderco but this is not a good situation.

For the Benchmade Bugout options, check the Custom Shop. It’s available 24-7.

As far as Spyderco sprints, I think you’ve confirmed my argument. It makes zero economic sense for Spyderco to sell a limited number of sprint runs at a minor net margin increase per unit. This really proves my point that the sprints exist due to contracted obligations and the production knives, sold at a higher gross net margin, are not available due to manufacturering constraints.

I don’t know what else I have to do here. I can explain it to you but I can’t understand it for you.

 

[TradTrapper]

For the Benchmade Bugout options, check the Custom Shop. It’s available 24-7.

As far as Spyderco sprints, I think you’ve confirmed my argument. It makes zero economic sense for Spyderco to sell a limited number of sprint runs at a minor net margin increase per unit. This really proves my point that the sprints exist due to contracted obligations and the production knives, sold at a higher gross net margin, are not available due to manufacturering constraints.

I don’t know what else I have to do here. I can explain it to you but I can’t understand it for you.

Read what I wrote. *mini* Bugout.

 

[Danke42]

Where can you get a mini-Bugout in 20CV or S90V? Now you are moving the goal post.



I do not buy this argument. BHQ and KC combined have zero PM2s in stock, but BHQ have a mint green M4 PM3 sprint run. I like Spyderco but this is not a good situation.

You're clued in that they're building knives that were ordered 3 years ago and all along facing massive supply shortages and despite that still honoring commitments sand price quotes?

What would be a good position in your opinion? Mugging Jeff Bezos, stealing his bank card, and using the funds to mail everyone in the USA $600 dollars worth of fknives? Because they'll do it if you ask.

 

[Hackenslash]

Read what I wrote. *mini* Bugout.

Now you’re moving the goal post. The Mini Bugout is “coming soon” to the custom shop. Your original argument was about a Bugout near salt water as depicted in an advertising campaign. Remember that? I provided a viable option. Mind your back as you move the goalpost.

Did you have any comment regarding Spyderco sprints, or is this argument llikewise reduced to semantics?

I’m open to an honest interchange of opinions, but that’s not happening here. We’re only yelling at shadowy figures on the lawn.