Collectors vs. Purveyors At Knife Shows!

RWS

RWS

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Originally posted by magilla
I know there are benefits to going the first day and also some for being there the last day but if you could only pick one day which one would you go to? if you had a choice that is.
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The above quote was part of another thread that I started the other day regarding Blade Show West compared to other shows. This may be presumptuous on my part but I felt my attempt to answer this question regarding when to get to a knife show deserved its own thread.

For me, I try to get to a show on the first day when the doors open in hopes of seeing all of the knives that are available from the more popular makers before the purveyors buy up everything. I've learned that the purveyors are my biggest competition at a knife show, not the other collectors.

However, I'm not sure that my eagerness to get in early matters anymore because it's my understanding that a lot of the knifemakers meet with, or are contacted by, the purveyors just before the show begins to get their quota of knives from the very same makers I've paid to see at the show.

I personally don't think it's fair to those customers who take time off and PAY to get into the shows to walk over to their favorite knifemakers table to find only one or two knives remaining because the purveyors bought most of them, at great discounts, before the doors opened.:mad:

On the other hand, I know what a tremendous job most of the purveyors have done at promoting custom knife collecting. They got me started in this great hobby. No doubt they are good for the knifemaker because of the advertising. When this is combined with the volume purchases they make, it's no wonder why the makers sell to them when they can. I shop the purveyors sites almost every day and I want them to have inventory!

I just wish their were some basic ground rules that were followed by the knifemakers and purveyors leading up to a show that would enable a paying knife show customer to have a chance at competing for some of these knives during (not before) the show. If not, at least give me a chance to look at these knives I came to see!
 
Those are well founded concerns.

I suggest you email the people you really want a knife from, tell them you are coming, and that you are very interested in looking at their stuff (and that you will be in there at the first crack)

I always feel bad for the people who have to work full time and cant get to the shows that start on Friday at noon..........they have no idea what was available when they show up.

As I was reading your post I also had a picture in my mind of all the people who get there early and rush to their favorite makers table.........but really would like to see the stuff on two or three different tables, and while they are at the first one, people are buying up the knives they would like to see at the other makers' tables.

Frankly, its a difficult situation, and if you want something in particular, it would be best to order it and wait........or take your best friend and you wife and.......??? :)
 
Hey Tom, I can't make it to BLADE West, but I will surely be in Vegas. Can you hold on to something for me there?:) (I figure it's never too early to ask)
 
At this year's Blade Show, Ken Steigerwalt, could have sold all his knives to purveyors prior to the show, but declined to do so, so that he would have knives on his table for his customers. Class act and some mighty fine knives.
 
Originally posted by dsvirsky
At this year's Blade Show, Ken Steigerwalt, could have sold all his knives to purveyors prior to the show, but declined to do so, so that he would have knives on his table for his customers. Class act and some mighty fine knives.
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That is a class act! If I thought most knifemakers would do that I might consider traveling to the other shows out of my area. However, at this time I'm not interested in traveling very far and paying to look at a bunch of empty tables that belong to the knifemakers I'm interested in.

Maybe Tom's right. Just order a knife from the maker and maybe forget the show. Especially if your plans were to go and see a bunch of knives from the more popular makers. You know the purveyors will get to them and buy the more desireable knives before you have a chance.
It would sure be nice to go to a show and see a nice selection of knives on the tables of my favorite makers. I don't see that happening. :(
 
Lucky are the knifemakers who are in this predicament!

A couple of things: Lottery drawings have been employed by various makers, and I'll bet there are creative ways to address this that would include dealers AND collectors.

With rare exception, I am in the understanding that a maker's work will sell from a dealer for a very similar price that they would at a show. But, like I said, there are exceptions... :(

Gene Shadley flat out refused to sell anything during the pre-show 'Guild-member insiders hour' at a recent local NYC show. He wanted to give the masses the same opportunity, and would only sell once the crowd would come in. There you go!

Lots of questions and opinions on this one... Good topic, RWS.

Coop
 
It is a tough question to ask? Do I wait and sell my knives to the public at full retail? Or do I sell to dealers before the show starts at a 20-30% markdown just to make sure I sell something to cover expenses? Or do I do both? Some dealers will have run out of spending money by the end of the show if you wait. I know of a maker who sold everything he had to a dealer at the blade show before the show started. It's nice to make the money but then no one else sees your work! You don't take any orders, and don't gain as much popularity. It's a game I am still learning to play.
 
But, the other side of that equation is that for some of us that have dealers that buy all year long, they are Customers too. For a year they gladly take what we make and when a show comes along, it's like Christmas for them. They can pick from knives that they normally don't see.
Granted, there is a line between your normal dealers and those purveyors that never buy from you except at a show. That's a no brainer. They don't get any preference over the show customers.
It's a tough call. If I sell a knife to Les, Neil Ostrof, or Larry and the Blade Art crew I know they will have it on their site and will sell it for close to my normal price.
Unless a customer calls or emails me, I don't know that they will be at the show. I know that my dealers will be there. What Tom said holds very true.
Just a little more food for thought.
 
I agree with Tom, and I agree with Kit. :eek:

Purveyors are a very important link in the business. Without them it would be tough indeed. Ive been bailed out more than once by purveyors/dealers when times were tough. :)
 
I wish that some makers would at least do what is done at a lot of art shows -- that is you can buy the knife, but it stays at the maker's display until the show is over, marked sold or something. That way if I can't buy one, at least I can have a look at it
 
Given a choice makers would prefer to sell directly to the public so give the maker a call before hand and express an interest.
 
I have a few thoughts on this subject .
When I go to a knife show, I'm there for two reasons: to sell knives and to keep my ugly mug in front of the public and be visible to my customers. I've seen knifemakers take the public for granted as their sales increase and they begin to think that they can sell their knives long distance and save the money it takes to attend a show. This is a mistake and eventually hurts both sales and reputation.
I sell knives to purveyors before a show (at a standard %10 discount) But I keep a variety of work for the attendees to handle and buy if they wish. The problem comes in when a pack of enthusiasts jam the table in the first hour or so and buy up what I have to offer. This business has always been first come first served with the few exceptions of those who hold lotteries to "make it fair". I've never done the lottery game , I guess because I've never thought myself that important to tie up so many people in the aisle .
Keeping the sold knives on the table has its drawbacks. At an art show, the people don't handle the artwork as they do knives. I've had sold knives dropped and scratched by well intentioned customers who were just looking, then I had to explain the damage to the buyers when they returned and then take the knives back home to re-finish and ship out.
Also, many customers are only at the show for the day and sometimes only a few hours. So when I sell a knife, that knife is the customer's property and I expect him to not leave me with the responsibility of caring for his knife while I'm trying to attend to other customers.
I've always held knives for potential customers who call before a show. I'll describe what I'm taking and set one aside for my customers. I won't hold a knife for the whole show but I will hold one for a reasonable time with no obligation to the customer.
Purveyors and individual customers are both important in this business and it is difficult striking a balance between the two. I deal with very good purveyors who have helped me and ,of course,i have heelped them. Most sell my knives at very close to my own published prices, if not right on.
The internet has changed this business and provided greater opportunity for all to see and buy knives that they would ordinarily not be able to see. Maybe, at the end of the day this will help cure the inequities of shows that have been discussed here.
See You In New York ! BOB
 
Les Robertson came to my table at a show just as I was setting up. He picked out a bunch of knives, and said something like "RJ-If you still have these on Sunday, I'll buy them. If you sell them, you can make them for me after the show"

Talk about a stress free approach!

The good purveyors know that makers need to "grip and grin" at a show, and, having knives on the table is key to bringing in new customers. They also know that the same people the maker meets at a show may very be ordering knives from them (the purveyor) after the show.

Personally, I wouldn't want to sell out to purveyors before the show-I hate the frustration of not having knives for people to fondle-prople who have paid to come and buy knives.
 
[QUOTEI guess because I've never thought myself that important to tie up so many people in the aisle .
BOB [/B][/QUOTE]
.
Wow, It's really funny you should say that, Mr. Terzuola, the first think I thought when I saw your name was, damn, Bob hangs out here. (followed by a moment of awe and silence.) :D

Mr. Terzuola. You Rock!
 
I can understand this being a difficult thing for makers to come to grips with. I think that as long as a maker is going to have a decent selection of knives on his/her table at a show then selling some knives to dealers/purveyors before the show begins is ok. It would however upset me to travel from Canada to one of the big shows just to find that some of the makers who's knives I wanted to see, sold most or all of them before the show even got started.

From what I hear, at Blade lots of deals are made in the pit the night before the show begins. With dealers/purveyors and customers alike.
 
As much as it would be a disappointment to miss out on a particular knife due to someone else getting it, no matter who (dealer, purveyor or another customer), as least business is brisk and vibrant and ensures more stuff will be made and people will get another chance the next time around.
 
Walking Man: "I ROCK !???" Tell that to my two sons, They'd have a good laugh, but thanks for the thought. BOB
 
Well, Mr. Terzuola, if you prefer Beethoven, that's fine with me.
:D Have a great weekend.
 
Hi folks,
It is a juggling act to supply all the knives needed at shows.
As most makers have mentioned delivering knives to a show for customers that pre-order is a good way of making sure that customers needs are met.

Purveyors are a big part of a knife makers business. I generally get their order before I go to the show to get them taken care of.

By taking the time to get the pre-orders before the show everyone gets taken care of. This method allows me to figure how many knives I will need for the table to assure that the knife buying public is satisfied.

See you in N.Y.
 
I don't have a problem w/ makers who sell first come / first served, even if they sell 100% of their offering in the first 5 minutes of the show. This is often the case for the very top names in the $1,000+ forged blade market anyway - not always, but often. When I go to a show that I know I want to buy stuff at, I take one day off. It's just part of the cost of going to the show. I sure wish shows were only Saturday / Sunday, but in the meantime, that's the way things work.

What I have a huge issue with is when makers sell before the show - even if they don't totally sell out. To my mind, those makers have put their names on a prospectus to attract a crowd, because as Bob explained, they know that it's important to their image. Yet by pre-selling their wares, they are deceiving the show goers. In effect, there is an implicit contract in a knife show. That contract says: If you make the effort to come to the show, you will have a fair chance to buy from a top maker. By pre-selling their wares, makers deceive showgoers.

Because a show opens at a given time, it makes it impossible for anyone - even a wealthy purveyor - to buy everything. They have to choose to go to either Ron Newton, Jerry Fisk, Bob Moran, or Don Fogg first - they can't do all at once. This gives a chance to all of us. This opportunity disappears if purveyors can buy (or reserve, which is the same thing) pieces at their bleisure before the show.

JD
 
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