combat knife throwing... I'm not kidding you

I can recall 3 times when throwing an object has bought me time and/or saved my life. 2 were complete misses but bought me enough time to regain the upper hand. And 1 was a direct hit. None of these were with knives. In my day to day life I practice throwing various objects, and I find nails screws screwdrivers and even chopsticks perfect for throwing.
 
Ive thrown knives and practiced the arts since i was 6. Learning Throwing knives or anything for that matter is helpful especially against an attacker. it's not about stopping power and other things like I read on another thread. speed and accuracy are great. but most people don't understand 1 thing. think about any fight you've been in. remember what happened before it. at least if you weren't blind sided or robed. but even then the person chose you for a reason. he didn't see you as a threat. figured he could run you over and not get hurt in the process. if you've ever gone into a fight you're probably pumped yourself up. got that happy little movie playing in your head that you weren't going to be hurt and knew exactly what you where going to do to take him/her out.
We all do it, we have to. it's our way of telling ourselves it's going to be okay. I love watching UFC for this reason. they both sit there talk trash and go all out at the beginning of the battle. but as soon as 1 lands a good hit or hurts the other in some manner you can see it. the other person has already lost. they give up even if they're still standing. you can see it in there eyes and how they move. they've lost the confidence and fire. Why though because all of a sudden that little movie playing in there head just got destroyed and realty came crashing down on them. that happy movie in there head just turned into a nightmare where they're going to be hurt and there going to loose. fighting isn't about strength, or speed or anything of the sort though these things do help. In reality fighting is about Will and the precision to force your will over another. break that and you've won. it's all about morale.

Now onto the point of this. people who are attacked are chosen by the attackers. the attacker has seen them as week and has the movie playing in there head. I study Krav Maga. We use this once we see the potential for a fight. let them think there going to win and we're easy pray. it's deception obviously. so they don't go on guard and our targets become get harder to hit and utilise. We use things like dropping change to distract, or even through it in there face. but you through a knife at them or any other dangerous object, even a fork or rock. and I garrenty you'll have destroyed that movie and they'll be on the defensive even if you miss. if you hit it doesn't matter if it's leathal or not you've already taken the upper hand. if they're still able to attack seize the advantage and take them down. they're already thinking about defending themselves even if it's a brief second. you keep on them and they can't attack. unless there trained well and have been in many fights. but you usually won't find these people on the street trying to rob you or picking fights. or use this time to escape, most the time the attacker won't fallow.
These are all facts I've used and seen many times In many different ways and sercomstances.
So personally I think learning to throw knives is a very powerful tool. especially for defense. regardless if it's a knife, fork, screwdriver, stone or change in your pocket. But as always these things are best for profecting, for knowledge and fun.
 
I've given a lot of thought to this topic, and it seems to me the only useable throwing weapon that could be effective, concealed and carried in multiples would be some kind of large dart... Say 2.5 times the weight/size of a regular large throwing dart, with a tip like a slightly undersized modern arrowhead full of 3 to 5 razor blades, in the usual bowhunting manner...

Even more carry-friendly would be adapting the spring-loaded arrow tip where the blades only rotate out on contact... To be futher disabling, maybe the tip of the head should be barbed and designed to come off when pulled, so that it stays in...

As for actually throwing a knife for defense, consider this only if it is extremely heavy, and run after it to be the first to pick it up... The best knife ever made for this expedient is undoubtedly the Buckmaster, coming in at an incredible 24 ounces for a 7.5 inch blade, something barely believable even as I type this...

Gaston
 
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How come people try to compare throwing knives to a gun. stopping power, mussel velocity, and all that. people aren't giving the mental aspects there do credit. we all have the same instinct. believe it or not it's freeze, maybe the enemy won't see us. freeze didn't work so run. run didn't work so fight. Not fight or flight. the more dangerous the situation the more likely you'll get the person who's attacking you stuck in there own mind and froze up. not knowing what to do or how to act. and not knowing how to act means they freeze up then run. its what bullys do to the people they pick on all the time. another perfect example. A couple years ago this guy tried to obduct a 12 year old girl. she bites him. didn't just bite but took a huge chunk out if his arm. guy dropped her and stood frozen looking at her and his wound. then he turn and ran away from her. later when the cops picked him up in the E.R. they asked him why he ran away from her. they couldn't understand why he hadn't carried out his plan. his only explanation was he couldn't believe she bit him and took a chunk out of him.

She was willing to hurt him and hurt him badly to stop him. the more dangerous the situation the easier to get some to lock up. you see this all the time with new soldiers there first time in combat. allot of them freeze up.

now if you have a razor sharp knife with a super sharp point. a guy attacks you in a dark ally and you stab him in the hand going clean through the middle. you really think that this person is going to keep after you. I highly doubt it. same with you throwing a dangerous object at him. regardless if you stick him.the fact your willing to kill him will get him to duck amd lock him up for enough time that you can either escape or attack him and keep him locked up. the harder you press the deeper into the mind hill go and the more hill lock up as his instincts try to take over while his mind is trying to keep control, they'll stiffen up while throwing wild non effective punches, and trying to escape. you start causing massive amounts of pain and take out senses by hitting the eyes, ears, nose, throat, knees, groin, major muscle groups along with other stike points, locks and holds and you'll have a puppet who will move however you want especially if you did stick him. but personally escape is the best option. if you did stick him you've already got positive ID for the cops. and you never know how many people are on his side and willing to help him. there's also ways to train so you don't freeze up. keep track of everything around you and whats happening, breathing, target identification and so on.
The knife is just a tool if you don't use every advantage you can get and use the theory and actually practice the training then you can't blame the training. you can only blame yourself. there is no quick fix to self defense even with a gun. you may be able to pull it and scare and freeze people up in the streets but in a fire fight just pulling it will only get you shot. you have to train with any weapon you choose to defend yourself with and going to the range once will not qualify you as a master of defense with your gun. and neither will throwing knives until you stick one and then putting then up and thinking. they take care of any situation you come across. training and dedication are the keys to all defensive abilities.

the samurai, ninja, china, Japan, and a lot of other different people and different nations used throwing weapons from knives , spikes, throwing stars, spears to axes. and they were deadly and feared in those days. so what makes people think that these weapons are any less dangerous today then they were a hundred years ago. I just don't get it.

Now you want to talk leathal. Watch Ralf Thorn. hes got the power, he can throw from any angle, any distance with in reason and is extremely accurate and fast. his style of throwing is something else. and I'd have to say is a game changer in the way of defensive knife throwing. I've been practicing his style since I found it.
 
:) It is my honor to exhume this thread :eek:. It well deserves a new life ! This may be one of the most overlooked and undervalued aspects of practical martial arts and self defense . I can't help wonder how or why our culture seems to suppress and even ridicule such a potentially vital practice . In the media , most often it a kid vandal with rocks or a hysteric woman throwing dish-ware . Hardly ever does the hero throw something to great effect . It's a very instinctual action and we must be taught early in childhood to NOT . Except within organized sports it just ain't socially acceptable . Maybe it is suppressed because it is primitively effective ,powerful and inherently impossible to license or regulate otherwise ? o_O

:cool: I thank all contributors to this thread and the OP . :thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
I never even had anything close to a "real" throwing knife when I was learning to throw. I was a teenage kid, and I used butcher knives, steak knives, screwdrivers, butter knives I put on the grinder, pocket knives, hollow-handled 1980's cheapo survival knives, anything and everything. Needless to say, I broke a lot of crap knives in the learning process, but I also found out that a decent full tang chef's knife, wooden handled with an 8" blade is a pretty reliable thrower. I'm fairly confident that as long as I was within 20 feet, and had enough knives, I'd be a pretty scary opponent, especially if I practiced my rusty-ness away. I had a 90, 95% "stick rate", as long as I was within that 20 feet and could half spin the throw. Exponentially less with increased distance, but still a pretty sure thing up to about 30 feet, and which point I'd say any opponent would probably be ok. the trick for me would be to wait until the distance was at that sweet spot. I also agree with the guy here who said it was hard to miss a man sized target at his chosen distance, same for me. I scarred the heck out of a huge old tree - (yeah, I know, now)-I used as a target regularly, at exactly "chest to head high", and if I got a throw "in the groin" that was always good for a chuckle. I practiced underhand, overhand, side-whipped, moving, walking, backing up, two hands at once, quick repetition of about 5 knives (nothing like thud-thud-thud-thud-thud for showing off) with varied success but I could always count on the plain old overhead half spin, held by the blade.
 
JJHollowman said:
I never even had anything close to a "real" throwing knife when I was learning to throw. I was a teenage kid, and I used butcher knives, steak knives, screwdrivers, butter knives I put on the grinder, pocket knives, hollow-handled 1980's cheapo survival knives, anything and everything. Needless to say, I broke a lot of crap knives in the learning process, but I also found out that a decent full tang chef's knife, wooden handled with an 8" blade is a pretty reliable thrower. I'm fairly confident that as long as I was within 20 feet, and had enough knives, I'd be a pretty scary opponent, especially if I practiced my rusty-ness away. I had a 90, 95% "stick rate", as long as I was within that 20 feet and could half spin the throw. Exponentially less with increased distance, but still a pretty sure thing up to about 30 feet, and which point I'd say any opponent would probably be ok. the trick for me would be to wait until the distance was at that sweet spot. I also agree with the guy here who said it was hard to miss a man sized target at his chosen distance, same for me. I scarred the heck out of a huge old tree - (yeah, I know, now)-I used as a target regularly, at exactly "chest to head high", and if I got a throw "in the groin" that was always good for a chuckle. I practiced underhand, overhand, side-whipped, moving, walking, backing up, two hands at once, quick repetition of about 5 knives (nothing like thud-thud-thud-thud-thud for showing off) with varied success but I could always count on the plain old overhead half spin, held by the blade.
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:)Thanks , great post ! Sounds like very effective preparation for realistic combat / SD throwing . I can do OK with something like "throwing stars" shuriken , where distance is not critical . I'm resolved to improve my skills with less easy sharp things . I want to figure out how to throw the stuff that I might actually carry . Including common tools that aren't primarily weapons . I know that some people can throw and stick all variety of everyday objects. I let myself become discouraged years ago , because I focused on perfect bullseye sticks . That's important for sports throwing , of course .

In combat/SD throwing , the goal is to escape injury . To stop or delay the assault . To create the time and/or space to escape or close distance . To even just cause the opponent to flinch might be enough to make an opening or spoil his aim . That means that even a non-stick hit might be vitally productive . Even a clean miss could be useful as a distraction and a discouragement . Just throwing something with some weight without sharp edges might have the effect of an impact weapon . :cool:
 
I would love to see the actual speed of the fastest reliable no spin knife throw, I'm betting if a batter can get out of the way of a 90-100 mph fast ball at 60 feet, that it wouldn't be extrememly difficult to dodge a no spin knife throw at 25-30 feet, I highly doubt it's faster than 30-40 mph at best.
 
panoz77 said:
I would love to see the actual speed of the fastest reliable no spin knife throw, I'm betting if a batter can get out of the way of a 90-100 mph fast ball at 60 feet, that it wouldn't be extrememly difficult to dodge a no spin knife throw at 25-30 feet, I highly doubt it's faster than 30-40 mph at best.
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o_OWithout a chronograph or speed gun , I'd have no idea . I'm often amazed though at how far in my Shurikens get stuck sometimes . I've tried to stick them in by hand and couldn't come close in depth . Pretty sure it would hurt , especially my huge Cold Steel ones .:p
 
DocJD said:
:)Thanks , great post ! Sounds like very effective preparation for realistic combat / SD throwing . I can do OK with something like "throwing stars" shuriken , where distance is not critical . I'm resolved to improve my skills with less easy sharp things . I want to figure out how to throw the stuff that I might actually carry . Including common tools that aren't primarily weapons . I know that some people can throw and stick all variety of everyday objects. I let myself become discouraged years ago , because I focused on perfect bullseye sticks . That's important for sports throwing , of course .

In combat/SD throwing , the goal is to escape injury . To stop or delay the assault . To create the time and/or space to escape or close distance . To even just cause the opponent to flinch might be enough to make an opening or spoil his aim . That means that even a non-stick hit might be vitally productive . Even a clean miss could be useful as a distraction and a discouragement . Just throwing something with some weight without sharp edges might have the effect of an impact weapon . :cool:
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A ton of stuff is great for throwing. Ice picks are awesome if the handle is light enough, although I'm not sure how you would explain that one to the police. Circular saw blades. A big bolt with nuts on the end. A four way tire iron, with one end a prybar, maybe you'll get lucky and stick it, if not, maybe it will knock him out. Beer bottles, thrown from the neck. I played with bolos I made from "clackers" too. Two clackers was four balls and threw/snared great with some practice. Clackers were two fairly heavy acrylic balls connected with a cord, it's a banned toy now,like lawn darts. They get rid of all the good stuff, gotta protect the poor little darlings these days. You can make your own bolos with drilled golf balls and paracord that work just about as well. I'd advise against black, paint the balls bright or leave them white.

I always thought if I ever did have to throw at someone, to make sure and wait until I could get them for sure, the last thing you would want is the opponent scrambling to pick up your misses and either toss them back or have a weapon. If you got a stick on them, hopefully the shock of that would give you the time needed to beat feet out of the vicinity. If they pulled it, they'd have a weapon, but it would bleed, so with any luck they'd leave it in as they watched you run away and try to get some medical assistance for themselves. Then there's the whole question of: if you DID get them with a throw, would they even wanna go any farther into the fight? I wouldn't. Barring a drug-crazed or psychotic person, most probably wouldn't. Another thing to remember is, if you'd thrown 3 out of 5 knives, it's probably best to keep 1 or even 2 for hand to hand. If 3 didn't cut it, you'll probably wind up close, and he's likely got one or maybe 2. The last thing you want is it winding up as him with two knives and you with zero knives.
 
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Last summer at the Scout camp I found a spoon in the woods. Since it was in the woods they couldn't put it back in the mess hall so I claimed it and used a file to sharpen it. It dulled fairly quickly and I have since lost it but it worked well and was fun while it lasted.

I'd be willing to bet that an un-sharpened spoon would probably hurt quite a bit too because spoons (at least the ones I've held) are fairly well balanced. So if someone comes in while you're eating your cereal you might just have weapon. Or if zombies try to invade the mess hall :D
 
This method of throwing has the best results for me. I am in no way a pro and it works best for closer range throwing until you get practice. However it is a fairly easy style to learn and it works.

 
Just now noticed this thread and thought I'd comment about my limited experiences. I grew up in a bad neighborhood and either was involved or witnessed a lot of street fights. I also spent way too much of my youth in pool halls - where somebody decided they must have gotten hustled so they started a confrontation - or maybe they were just drunk.

Before I got my driver's license, I walked everywhere because a bike would usually get stolen if you set it down for any period of time. During this time, I carried a pocket full of heavy metal washers - usually 4 or 5 in 1-1/4" size, which are 3" outside diameter. I picked washers on the assumption I could explain it away more easily than something obvious like shuriken or a knife. I practiced throwing them at trees, both overhand and underhand like a softball. Of course, they don't stick but they leave a dent.

In 8th grade, I was walking with a friend when we were approached by a group of four street punks. They started yelling at us so when they got within 10 yards or so, I threw a washer and hit one kid right above the eye. We took off running the other way while they scattered.

When I was a sophomore in high school, I was leaving a bowling alley one night with some friends and we were confronted by a larger group of boys from a rival school. They started making noise about fighting so I pulled the entire handful of washers and slung them underhand. One washer hit a member of the other group in the head and the other washers clattered against some parked cars. The kid who got hit started screaming and they all panicked, which allowed us to run to my buddy's car.

After high school, I was in a pool hall when a fight started near us and people started swinging cues. I picked up a rack of pool balls and started slinging them to make a path to the door. We got out of the building and ran to our car about the time the cops showed up.

In every instance, there was the element of surprise and it didn't last long (basically until the other guys figured out what really happened). Nobody got permanently injured and everybody lived to fight another day. I think this is probably what you would typically encounter with any hand thrown weapon in most instances (unless you hit somebody just right with an ax or other heavy blade). I also believe this is how the Japanese thought a shuriken would be used - a quick painful distraction which allowed the thrower to pull out his sword and finish the job.
 
I throw Thorn style and have for many years. I am a Trad bow hunter/shooter and throw hawks and spears, these are just things I like to do and enjoy. I throw mainly for fun but I certainly think it can be an effect way to stop an attack. It just another "tool" in your self defense tool box IMO.
 
I've always wondered about the effectiveness of a thrown weapon. This thread caught my attention and then I found this on Youtube.
 
I've thrown no spin for a few years now and competent. Best using knives that are no spin oriented; (Tom Tom Arrows styled blades are very good).
I can also 1/2 spin.
My effective range is out to about 15 foot or a bit longer, and I can hit and stick a 6" target most of the time with effective thunk.

Out to about 9 to 14 feet you can get the power to do some real damage if the velocity is high enough or some weight to the blade. Nails and spikes usually don't have enough weight to carry far nor do much bar very close indeed, 6ft.
After about 15 foot and over then the vast majority of knives lose energy fast. Spin throwing keeps the momentum up best but even then its the weight of the blade, might get 25ft at a push. Best to use something big and heavy such as a tomahawk or Cold Steel Spade. Dedicated Throwing Sticks can break a leg to about 20m, side spin them. Spin with a knife is very tricky without set distance and practice.
No doubt some knives, hawks, spades, and bayonets can hold the energy, have the momentum to do heaps of damage. Clothing and stuff will absorb a whole lot, surprising amount. Can stop a wide edge though the mass will hurt plenty. Really is best if the pointy bit lands point on to focus the energy.
All the techniques, Spin, Thorn, or Fedin, require quite a body movement commitment. Its not a spin of the wrist.
I just think tactically there are probably better things to do. At very close range then you could do real damage but too much would be left to chance. Hit a thick bone and most blades would deflect away. There would be as much chance to do damage as just piss the opponent off more. Frankly if you have a good weapon keep it.

I'm 51 years old and had a few adventures. I can't think of any time where throwing a knife would have been useful. I have no problem throwing improvised weapons like cue balls, or just about anything, to give you some time to think...and run.

I really enjoy my knife throwing. Reality its not Flying Daggers, well only in my dreams.
 
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GREENJACKET said:
I've thrown no spin for a few years now and competent. Best using knives that are no spin oriented; (Tom Tom Arrows styled blades are very good).
I can also 1/2 spin.
My effective range is out to about 15 foot or a bit longer, and I can hit and stick a 6" target most of the time with effective thunk.

Out to about 9 to 14 feet you can get the power to do some real damage if the velocity is high enough or some weight to the blade. Nails and spikes usually don't have enough weight to carry far nor do much bar very close indeed, 6ft.
After about 15 foot and over then the vast majority of knives lose energy fast. Spin throwing keeps the momentum up best but even then its the weight of the blade, might get 25ft at a push. Best to use something big and heavy such as a tomahawk or Cold Steel Spade. Dedicated Throwing Sticks can break a leg to about 20m, side spin them. Spin with a knife is very tricky without set distance and practice.
No doubt some knives, hawks, spades, and bayonets can hold the energy, have the momentum to do heaps of damage. Clothing and stuff will absorb a whole lot, surprising amount. Can stop a wide edge though the mass will hurt plenty. Really is best if the pointy bit lands point on to focus the energy.
All the techniques, Spin, Thorn, or Fedin, require quite a body movement commitment. Its not a spin of the wrist.
I just think tactically there are probably better things to do. At very close range then you could do real damage but too much would be left to chance. Hit a thick bone and most blades would deflect away. There would be as much chance to do damage as just piss the opponent off more. Frankly if you have a good weapon keep it.

I'm 51 years old and had a few adventures. I can't think of any time where throwing a knife would have been useful. I have no problem throwing improvised weapons like cue balls, or just about anything, to give you some time to think...and run.

I really enjoy my knife throwing. Reality its not Flying Daggers, well only in my dreams.
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I love to throw, all styles, all projectiles, but have to agree, unless I was some kind of career knife thrower (read a few books, most guys say they feel completely competent reaching for their knives if they heard and intruder instead of a gun) then SO many things could go wrong.

Even really good throwers miss, and a super high stress situation like that?? Unless you're some badass that's cool as a cucumber, throwing a knife should be a last resort. Like you said, clothing could deflect a lot. Even if you stick 'em, adreneline prob kick in and then THEY have a knife, yours. and probably pissed off.

Plus close quarters, dark. Personally, I hear a possible intruder, at most grabbing glock, at least, depending on MMA skillz. Or somewhere in the middle, like knife (that will not be leaving my grip) or bat or whatever.

BUT, there are an elite and rare percentage of the population that are virtually ninjas with knife throwing, and for them, game on. And respek.
 
DocJD said:
:) It is my honor to exhume this thread :eek:. It well deserves a new life ! This may be one of the most overlooked and undervalued aspects of practical martial arts and self defense . I can't help wonder how or why our culture seems to suppress and even ridicule such a potentially vital practice . In the media , most often it a kid vandal with rocks or a hysteric woman throwing dish-ware . Hardly ever does the hero throw something to great effect . It's a very instinctual action and we must be taught early in childhood to NOT . Except within organized sports it just ain't socially acceptable . Maybe it is suppressed because it is primitively effective ,powerful and inherently impossible to license or regulate otherwise ? o_O

:cool: I thank all contributors to this thread and the OP . :thumbsup::thumbsup:
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This is the most useful throwing technique for me. It makes it very easy for me to throw spike shaped objects like long heavy nails.

Edit, woops already posted that video above.
 
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dougshoe said:
I've never seen "no spin" knife throwing with power. It might work with a knife if everything goes just right, but I don't see it working with improvised objects. There just isn't enough power to cause real damage. If you spin throw an improvised object it can cause damage without a "stick." You can spin throw a lot of objects at 90mph. If it hits right you have extra power imparted by the spin and a possible stab. Even if it doesn't hit right, you have impact damage because of the power behind it.
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If you throw and release correctly, no-spin, has amazing power. Watch ralph thorn, adam celadin, or tom tom (samoth chipmah) on youtube, their no-spin throws are extremely powerful.
 
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