Crosscut Saw Thread

I hate to rain on your parade but I have some thoughts I'd like to share. Jointing, sharpening and setting a crosscut saw is a long and detailed process. When you're done the value of the sharpening work will far exceed the value of the saw. That said, I believe it's wise to invest that sharpening time in a quality saw.

I think you'd be better off leaving this saw as a wall hanger and acquiring a champion tooth or lance tooth saw to sharpen and restore.

After restoring a flat-ground lance tooth I kind of regretted investing the time in that saw. I'd suggest getting at least a taper ground saw in either champion or lance tooth patterns. Better if you can hold out for a crescent-taper saw.

And if you plan on cutting mostly hardwoods I'd lean towards a champion tooth. If you're mostly cutting conifer I'd lean toward a lance tooth.

There's certainly no harm in restoring this saw. I don't doubt you'll enjoy it and that the saw will function admirably. But you might rather invest the learning time in learning to file those other types of saws.

Apologies for being something of a wet blanket. I just figured that you and the forum should know my honest thoughts.
 
Square_peg said:
I hate to rain on your parade but I have some thoughts I'd like to share. Jointing, sharpening and setting a crosscut saw is a long and detailed process. When you're done the value of the sharpening work will far exceed the value of the saw. That said, I believe it's wise to invest that sharpening time in a quality saw.

I think you'd be better off leaving this saw as a wall hanger and acquiring a champion tooth or lance tooth saw to sharpen and restore.

After restoring a flat-ground lance tooth I kind of regretted investing the time in that saw. I'd suggest getting at least a taper ground saw in either champion or lance tooth patterns. Better if you can hold out for a crescent-taper saw.

And if you plan on cutting mostly hardwoods I'd lean towards a champion tooth. If you're mostly cutting conifer I'd lean toward a lance tooth.

There's certainly no harm in restoring this saw. I don't doubt you'll enjoy it and that the saw will function admirably. But you might rather invest the learning time in learning to file those other types of saws.

Apologies for being something of a wet blanket. I just figured that you and the forum should know my honest thoughts.
Click to expand...

Oh hell, I figured as much too LOL!!
No apologies needed, I more than appreciate the square shake and opinion Everytime.

Hardwoods mostly here for my cutting, firewood. Thanks for the tips on tooth patterns for specific cutting, and your personal story coincides with my inner thoughts.

Thanks Square Peg
 
Miller '72 said:
Doesn't mean I still won't try...;):D
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:thumbsup:

Looking at your saw I am assuming you will joint and recut the teeth (lengthen the gullets). I also have a 36" and this may apply to yours:



My saw looks to need little or no jointing. The depth of the "heel" to the first tooth (yellow line) is pretty much the same. All the gullets are flat at the bottom. I don't know if that is the case with other peg saws. The included angle of each tooth is approx. 38 degrees. The gullets are 3/4 " deep. The distance between each tooth point is 5/8".


Bob
 
rjdankert said:
My saw looks to need little or no jointing.
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Yours needs a little jointing. Virtually every saw needs a little jointing before sharpening. It scares newbies but it has to be done.

I will typically take that end tooth down just a hair short of the first real tooth just so it doesn't lift the first tooth as soon as it wears the slightest bit.
 
Miller'72-You are getting a lot of good info here. I especially like rjdankert's forest service CCC info. While what Square_peg said about the Champion tooth and the Lance tooth patterns is true, let me give you a reason to service and keep your Plain (Peg) tooth saw.The Plain tooth pattern is the oldest saw pattern invented by humans. I use them for historic demonstrations. While your saw is not a 18c saw, it still represents man's first saw pattern. The Plain tooth is actually harder to come by in useable condition. For another pattern without rakers look at the Great American pattern. The Great American is a very good all around saw pattern.
 
im in the process of sharpening up my great american. its a 70" bucking saw. would it be a good idea to file the middle tooth on a 45 instead of a 30? i read from the manual that rakerless saws should be filed at about 30 degrees so they can carry their own cuttings... the middle tooth does not carry many shavings so could they be sharpened at 45?
 
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Old Axeman said:
Miller'72-You are getting a lot of good info here. I especially like rjdankert's forest service CCC info. While what Square_peg said about the Champion tooth and the Lance tooth patterns is true, let me give you a reason to service and keep your Plain (Peg) tooth saw.The Plain tooth pattern is the oldest saw pattern invented by humans. I use them for historic demonstrations. While your saw is not a 18c saw, it still represents man's first saw pattern. The Plain tooth is actually harder to come by in useable condition. For another pattern without rakers look at the Great American pattern. The Great American is a very good all around saw pattern.
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Old Axeman thank you.
Thank you for your words of encouragement and the added historical significance of the plain (peg) tooth saw. Your experience and advice are greatly appreciated, and make learning about and returning this saw to use that more special to me.
I would love to experience one of your demonstrations, I am sure I am not the only one to feel that way.

Thanks again,
Miller from CT
 
Thanks phantomknives.
Its difficult at times with different projects for sure, but to be done properly I agree, I will need to be patient on this one. It will take a little time to aquire and learn to use the proper tools to properly return this saw to optimal performance.
I can't wait!
 
Saw filing classes require a venue of some sort and a commitment of time. I did one for Shenandoah NP a couple years ago in an old CCC-era building but had to make it short to accommodate their schedule. Two days wasn't really enough time, but I got through the basics. Dolly Chapman teaches a great class and has a good rapport with students, but like most crosscut instructors, she is western-based.

Proper tools are really important. Ebay is the place for good filing tools, as the best gauges were made a hundred or so years ago.

If you get with a trail club, you can find the wilderness crews that use these tools on a regular basis. This one in central Virginia does a lot of work in the Ramsey's Draft/Shenandoah mountain area.

https://www.facebook.com/1840421083...042108337719/1446133812128536/?type=3&theater
 
Square_peg said:
Yours needs a little jointing. Virtually every saw needs a little jointing before sharpening. It scares newbies but it has to be done.
Click to expand...
I probably should have been more detailed about why I said "My saw looks to need little or no jointing." in my response to Miller'72 (post #584). So I will try to explain more as a caveat to that post. I wanted to somehow convey the condition of my saw as I thought it would be relevant to the dimensions provided. The less used and sharpened a saw is the closer the teeth will be to the original. I did not want to say (and did not say) flat out that my saw does not need jointing. To joint or not is really a judgement made by the owner / filer. I wish that readers interested could actually handle and examine my plate and come to their own evaluation. IDK if this will help, but here is the whole plate:



To anyone hesitant about jointing a saw, here is a saying I remember from the 1970s:

"nuthin to it but to do it"!


Bob
 
I have a Gibbs knock off from the Crosscut Saw Company that I use for long saws, but I had to work on it to make right. It was the only tool I ever bought from them, as real Gibbs are way pricey. For a short saw, you're fine with using any file holder that's incorporated into a raker gauge. Just don't bend the file into a tight arc. It's better to have a flat to shallow arc than a tight curve that doesn't conform to the saw.

There are some good discussions on plain tooth saws at crosscutsawyer.com

http://www.crosscutsawyer.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=683&start=10
 
A 1954 catalog from Atkins was uploaded recently to archive.org, and they have more crosscut saws than I expected for the 1950s, including a "hollow back" 388 "for bucking timber resting on the ground". The pages will appear here for a limited time (until the links go dead):

BookReaderImages.php


BookReaderImages.php


BookReaderImages.php


BookReaderImages.php





By 1954, Atkins was also selling chainsaw chain, as seen in this ad:
Popular Mechanics, March 1954, page 259

The guy who uploaded that Atkins catalog to archive.org (as well as a lot of axe and other old tool catalogs) is Mark Stansbury, and he has this site devoted to Atkins Saws:
http://atkinssaws.blogspot.com/
 
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