Cts-xhp

G

GerroldP

Joined
Jan 30, 2011
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48
Hello,

I was reading about a relatively new steel called CTS-XHP

This Tactical Life article states:

The CTS (CTS is the Carpenter trademark) XHP steel is an air-hardened, high carbon, high chromium and corrosion-resistant steel that is comparable to 440C stainless steel. The chemical formulation of the steel is as follows: Carbon 1.60%, Chromium 16.00%, Magnesium 0.50%, Molybdenum 0.80%, Nickel 0.35%, Silicon 0.40% and Vanadium 0.45%. While 440C has a similar Chromium content, the formulation only has 0.95-1.20% Carbon in its makeup.

As evidenced above, the major difference between XHP and 440C lies in the added Carbon content of XHP. The addition of both Nickel and Vanadium, which are absent in 440C, is also a component that contributes to enhanced edge retention. When compared to 440C, XHP offers superior edge durability, outstanding surface finishing and consistent heat-treatability from steel lot-to-lot.
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I am wondering how the strength of this steel compares to CPM-3V. It would be nice to have a steel with the attributes of 3V and also more Chromium to avoid rust and stains. It seems to just be a pumped up version of 440C?!

Anyone know about this steel?

Thanks

GerroldP
 
what type/style of knife are you looking for with this steel?

spyderco did a sprint run of the manix 2 in this steel. i also believe hinderer makes knives in cts-xhp.
 
although we all want to make suggestions to possibly create the magic alloy, i believe each offering by the steel companies needs to stand on it's own attributes. certainly improvements may be possible with any formulation, this is not nearly as easily as trying to make a better meatloaf. 3v is certainly a great steel as it stands, afterall it is xtremely tough , a great edge holder & really pretty difficult to corrode. adding more chromium to 3v to increase stainless characteristics simply decreases the toughness of 3v.--dennis
 
Hi GeroldP,

CTS-XHP was forulated by Carpenter Steel to be a stainless D2. Early testing and one short run has proven the steel to be competitive in performance with other high carbon stainless steels.

There are some forumites that believe it is quite superior to most stainless steels on the market today.

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi GeroldP,

CTS-XHP was forulated by Carpenter Steel to be a stainless D2. Early testing and one short run has proven the steel to be competitive in performance with other high carbon stainless steels.

There are some forumites that believe it is quite superior to most stainless steels on the market today.

sal
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what other high carbon stainless steels is CTS-XHP competitive with? elmax?

what HRC did you run the CTS-XHP at? similar to D2 (60-62 range?)

are there any future plans to further utilize this steel?

thanks.
 
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DennisStrickland said:
adding more chromium to 3v to increase stainless characteristics simply decreases the toughness of 3v.--dennis
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Okay, so the issue is increased chromium decreases strength. I wonder what the best balance between carbon and chromium would be to obtain maximum strength with corrosion resistance. I notice 440C has high chromium and still is quite tough.

Thanks

GerroldP
 
GerroldP said:
Okay, so the issue is increased chromium decreases strength. I wonder what the best balance between carbon and chromium would be to obtain maximum strength with corrosion resistance. I notice 440C has high chromium and still is quite tough.

Thanks

GerroldP
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I think we are all still working on that one...lots of candidates, many opinions! :D
 
GerroldP said:
Okay, so the issue is increased chromium decreases strength. I wonder what the best balance between carbon and chromium would be to obtain maximum strength with corrosion resistance. I notice 440C has high chromium and still is quite tough.

Thanks

GerroldP
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stainless steel's corrosion resistance comes from chromium, but when you add large amounts of carbon, that chromium get turned into chromium carbide which doesn't protect the steel from oxidation (but makes the steel more abrasive resistant). as the level of carbon increases, so do the levels of chrome to keep the steel "stainless".
 
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I believe CTS-XHP is closer to D2 (as per Dozier).

CTS-40CP is closer to 440C.

Then there's CTS-20CP - closer to S90V.

I think it's time for a death match between CTS-XHP - S30V - CPM154V - ELMAX - (and some 390? German steel) :D
 
GerroldP said:
Okay, so the issue is increased chromium decreases strength. I wonder what the best balance between carbon and chromium would be to obtain maximum strength with corrosion resistance. I notice 440C has high chromium and still is quite tough.

Thanks

GerroldP
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Be careful with the wording. Strength, as you said above, and toughness, as Dennis said, are not the same. The terms mean different things, though they are often used interchangably.

The article quoted either has a typo or a genuine error. No steel I've ever heard of has any magnesium in the formula. Manganese, however, is quite common. Most likely a typo, but there's no way to tell for sure.
 
spyken said:
I believe CTS-XHP is closer to D2 (as per Dozier).

CTS-40CP is closer to 440C.

Then there's CTS-20CP - closer to S90V.

I think it's time for a death match between CTS-XHP - S30V - CPM154V - ELMAX - (and some 390? German steel) :D
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XHP is a pretty good steel, but it hasn't been around long enough to really tell and there isn't enough knives available yet on the market to yield a larger testing base.

In my testing it did pretty well, it in the same group as CPM-154, ZDP-189, and ELMAX. I do however believe ELMAX is both stronger and tougher than XHP. XHP is an aggressive cutter and takes an edge well being 2nd generation PM technology helps with edge retention due to the even carbide distribution.

Only time will tell if we see more knives using this steel how good it really is.

I have more experience with ELMAX and believe that ELMAX will be the steel of choice in the future from what I have experienced so far.
 
Ankerson said:
XHP is a pretty good steel, but it hasn't been around long enough to really tell and there isn't enough knives available yet on the market to yield a larger testing base.

In my testing it did pretty well, it in the same group as CPM-154, ZDP-189, and ELMAX. I do however believe ELMAX is both stronger and tougher than XHP. XHP is an aggressive cutter and takes an edge well being 2nd generation PM technology helps with edge retention due to the even carbide distribution.

Only time will tell if we see more knives using this steel how good it really is.

I have more experience with ELMAX and believe that ELMAX will be the steel of choice in the future.
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as far as workability goes, hows elmax?

IMO, that will probably be one of the biggest factors deciding it's future use as a knife steel.
 
jimnolimit said:
as far as workability goes, hows elmax?

IMO, that will probably be one of the biggest factors deciding it's future use as a knife steel.
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From my understanding it's pretty easy to work with.
 
jimnolimit said:
what other high carbon stainless steels is CTS-XHP competitive with? elmax?

what HRC did you run the CTS-XHP at? similar to D2 (60-62 range?)

are there any future plans to further utilize this steel?

thanks.
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We used Carpenter's first batch for a sprint run. Then their next batch was flawed so they couldn't ship. As I understand, they are now shipping XHP again so we'll be using it on future models.

We had plans to use it on some of our new models, but had to change due to production problems making the steel.

sal
 
Running in that group is not exactly bad marks... ;)

Ankerson said:
XHP is a pretty good steel, but it hasn't been around long enough to really tell and there isn't enough knives available yet on the market to yield a larger testing base.

In my testing it did pretty well, it in the same group as CPM-154, ZDP-189, and ELMAX. I do however believe ELMAX is both stronger and tougher than XHP. XHP is an aggressive cutter and takes an edge well being 2nd generation PM technology helps with edge retention due to the even carbide distribution.

Only time will tell if we see more knives using this steel how good it really is.

I have more experience with ELMAX and believe that ELMAX will be the steel of choice in the future from what I have experienced so far.
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JNewell said:
Running in that group is not exactly bad marks... ;)
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Nope it's not bad at all really. :)

Once more knives are available we will see how well it stacks up over a broad range of uses compared to the others in the group.

So Far I am neutral on it as I didn't get to really put it through my full testing process, all I did was test edge retention on rope and it did well there.

I have much more experience with ELMAX and I really got to fully test it and really pushed it to see what it will do at 60 HRC and at 62 HRC with a very thin grind and it's did extremely well.
 
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