Cts-xhp

[FlaMtnBkr]

Nobody has a regular production blade in M390, so far we have only limited runs.

The Price of the steel is on par with CPM-S90V.

Only Kershaw could answer that question about ZT.

Comparing ZT to Benchmade is like apples and oranges.

The MPR is a regular production knife and uses M390. It is also very similar to a ZT in they are both thick and over built. I would be curious how they are apples and oranges.

garbage

When is this guy going to get banned? He can't carry on a conversation but spits out his drivel and then attacks people including Sal. Isn't that mod harassment? Show him the plank if he can't contribute and play nice.

 

[cziv]

When is this guy going to get banned? He can't carry on a conversation but spits out his drivel and then attacks people including Sal. Isn't that mod harassment? Show him the plank if he can't contribute and play nice.

I missed the quote you posted. I think that Vassili is a whipping boy around here and unrightfully so. I don't hear anyone else who posts as a "backyard steel tester" take as much sh*t as he does regarding his results.

Others' tests are no more scientific than his for all we know? Every time he posts an opinion or a video it's like open season to discredit him and pile on with abusive and childish remarks. When quarrels about testing methods break out, it seems to me anyway, that they have no more scientific relpies than stuff like "my methods are so .....insert words here....that it would make no difference, so it's my results we'll be listening to."

I have never viewed Vassili as a troll or anything approaching it. He tries hard to test and validate his claims while his detractors heap abuse on him for posting his findings. I bet they wouldn't be very comfortable if the shoe was on the other foot.

Funny thing is - everyone's tests are largely "secret...shhh" so other than Unit who posted his string cutting contraption (to his credit) - I don't think anyone should be talking smack about their tests unless they care to disclose what they're doing - verbally and visually. Just my $.02

 

[Folderguy]

Alpha Knife Supply has price listings for steels and other materials.

Just the Steel alone doesn't tell the whole story about finial cost, they still have to made into knife blades and HT.

Thanks again for the Alpha website.

Checking out the prices for the steels used in the ZT 0300 and the BM 755 MPR, and measuring the actual blade sizes in the two knives, allowing for extra room on the steel piece sizes for making the actual blades (and also realizing that the cost to a manufacturer who buys in bulk can be quite different than the sizes Alpha has available) here's what I found.

The cost for the steel used in the ZT 0300, which is S30V, comes out to approximately $16.25 per blade. If S90V were used instead of S30V, the approximate cost per blade would be about $18. Of course then there is the machining cost, and heat treatment, etc. etc.

The BM 755 with M390 steel comes out to about $19.50 per blade, plus machining cost, heat treatment, etc. etc.

From what I can tell, that isn't a great big difference on a per knife basis.

Of course there are myriad other factors besides the cost of the steel used in the blade, but it seems the cost of the steel used for the blades in question isn't all that different.

If you catch my drift, it seems there's quite a bit of hype in this stuff.

At the 2010 Chicago Knife Show, I asked Ernest Emerson about steels, and he told me that he uses 154CM (also some in S30V) for most of his knives because the actual differences when using the knives with different steels isn't always that perceptible to the end user. Made sense to me.

Here's another question: when reading about the S30V and S90V steels, their data sheets, their aim hardness for the S30V is 58-61 and 56-59 for the S90V. Your tests of production knives have shown that a particular steel hardened to say 57 versus the same steel hardened to 59 produces very different results when doing your rope cutting tests. At the moment, I'm having a custom knife made of 154 CM steel, and the maker does his own heat treatment, and tells me it will come in around 61-62. How do you expect 154CM at 61-62 to compare to S30V or S90V or M390 with the heat treatment coming on a production knife?

 

[GerroldP]

The cost for the steel used in the ZT 0300, which is S30V, comes out to approximately $16.25 per blade. If S90V were used instead of S30V, the approximate cost per blade would be about $18. Of course then there is the machining cost, and heat treatment, etc. etc.The BM 755 with M390 steel comes out to about $19.50 per blade, plus machining cost, heat treatment, etc. etc.

The cost of steel is not that high, it is the skilled-labour!

 

[Ankerson]

Here's another question: when reading about the S30V and S90V steels, their data sheets, their aim hardness for the S30V is 58-61 and 56-59 for the S90V. Your tests of production knives have shown that a particular steel hardened to say 57 versus the same steel hardened to 59 produces very different results when doing your rope cutting tests. At the moment, I'm having a custom knife made of 154 CM steel, and the maker does his own heat treatment, and tells me it will come in around 61-62. How do you expect 154CM at 61-62 to compare to S30V or S90V or M390 with the heat treatment coming on a production knife?

Couldn't say because that would depend on that knife.

I did test a production blade in 154CM at 61 HRC and it's in the rankings.

 

[Folderguy]

The cost of steel is not that high, it is the skilled-labour!

That's exactly what I thought.

 

[Folderguy]

Couldn't say because that would depend on that knife.

I did test a production blade in 154CM at 61 HRC and it's in the rankings.

Will take a look at it in a moment. Will different heat treatments of the same steel that end up with the same HRC produce different results in the kind of tests you perform?

 

[dini]

I think that Vassili is a whipping boy around here and unrightfully so. I don't hear anyone else who posts as a "backyard steel tester" take as much sh*t as he does regarding his results.

I have never viewed Vassili as a troll or anything approaching it.

Come on... This vassili manili guy insults everyone who doesn't agree with him. Also he often deletes his most insulting posts after a while. He's already been banned from at least one other forum that I know of for this, and I can tell you that no one misses him.

 

[Ankerson]

Will take a look at it in a moment. Will different heat treatments of the same steel that end up with the same HRC produce different results in the kind of tests you perform?

Yes they can.

That would really get into a detailed involved discussion though.

 

[Folderguy]

Yes they can.

That would really get into a detailed involved discussion though.

That's what I figured!

 

[Folderguy]

Yes they can.

That would really get into a detailed involved discussion though.

So, from reading all these posts in this thread, plus plenty of others, it appears that when it comes to custom knives all bets are off.

BTW, waiting to see your review of the M2 power hack saw blade turned into a knife.

I just made one, what a monster to grind. 65-66 HRC is no joke. It sure slices nicely.

 

[Ankerson]

So, from reading all these posts in this thread, plus plenty of others, it appears that when it comes to custom knives all bets are off.

BTW, waiting to see your review of the M2 power hack saw blade turned into a knife.

I just made one, what a monster to grind. 65-66 HRC is no joke. It sure slices nicely.

Yes, it's a different world.

 

[cziv]

Come on... This vassili manili guy insults everyone who doesn't agree with him. Also he often deletes his most insulting posts after a while. He's already been banned from at least one other forum that I know of for this, and I can tell you that no one misses him.

Would you care to back up those claims? Quote his insults in threads so I can read the context of his remark. You can PM or use my email function to let me know of the forum he was banned from. Otherwise, your opinion is just another example of what I've posted.

I don't care to get involved in being Vasssili's guardian angel, far from it. I dig steel testing and I like to hear "everyone's" opinions and findings without the harsh words. Disagreement? Sure, that's part of the process very often but not muzzling other members or booting them out because they aren't "popular," isn't very productive.

 

[EOM]

Would you care to back up those claims? Quote his insults in threads so I can read the context of his remark. You can PM or use my email function to let me know of the forum he was banned from. Otherwise, your opinion is just another example of what I've posted.

I don't care to get involved in being Vasssili's guardian angel, far from it. I dig steel testing and I like to hear "everyone's" opinions and findings without the harsh words. Disagreement? Sure, that's part of the process very often but not muzzling other members or booting them out because they aren't "popular," isn't very productive.

I agree with you in that I am always interested to hear about anyone's personal testing. But Vassili's posts are always so full of inaccuracies, false information, and insults to other forum members that I cannot view his results as credible.

 

[Sal Glesser]

While I may not always agree with Vassii, I will defend his right to his opinion.

He does actual testing and he uses uncommon materials like hair. His information is valid in determining how certain steels will cut hair, or can reach that "type" of edge.

I have fond that different steels will perform differently on different materials. One that does well on rope may not do well shaving or on a CATRA. I respect and appreciate anyone that will do testing, especially if it is as scientific as possible.

Also, while it is just my opinion, I enjoy the varied personalities of all of the many types of people that are attracted to this "Knife" world, regardless of what their "other" life might be.

sal

 

[Razorsharp1986]

Wow. The Vassili debate again....
I found CTS-XHP to be a great steel. It is my favorite stainless steel right now. Definitely holds a wicked edge for a while and a working edge for even longer. Rather easy to sharpen also. I cannot tell the difference between ELMAX and CTS-XHP in performance. I'd say they are about the same, but XHP is easier to sharpen. It is also tougher than ZDP-189, which makes it more suitable for my type of uses (hard use/heavy cutting).
The only steel that works better for me, than the CTS-XHP, is the CPM-M4, which seems to be tougher, hold an edge longers, and sharpen rather with the same ease. The only advantage the XHP steel has over the M4, is corrosion resistance.

Also, I think that hating on Vassili and his test results has became far too popular on these forums. He works hard, to bring us informative data in regards to all kinds of knife steels. His tests show different results than some of the other, popular testers, and that is why he's being disregarded. That is total BS. He seems only "aggressive" because he saw with his own eyes the difference in performance of these steels, and to him, what some people claim seems absurd. I think that his tests are real, and the results are true. His methods are different, yet rather precise and "scientific". It is good to have that data-base so we can compare it with other data and then with our own use of these steels. For the media he is cutting and testing with, CTS-XHP did extremely well, and even better than some other, better regarded steels. I am a total believer. It is indeed a great steel, and depends on the media you're cutting, it may perform better than some of the "higher end" steels. Stop claiming he tries to mislead people, he is just a believer in what he SEES. Nothing wrong with that. So, lay off him, nobody wants a monkey on his back, and it seems that Vassili finds himself in the middle of the jungle, whenever he posts anything around here.

 

[Gator97]

I don't hear anyone else who posts as a "backyard steel tester" take as much sh*t as he does regarding his results.

No other backyard tester else has the attitude he does.

When quarrels about testing methods break out, it seems to me anyway, that they have no more scientific relpies than stuff like "my methods are so .....insert words here

Yet Vassilii is the one discrediting and insulting everyone, makers, testers, opponents. I figure, you don't view his posts that way, but calling opponents test results gargage, or lies is hardly inviting for s civil discussion.

He tries hard to test and validate his claims while his detractors heap abuse on him for posting his findings.

Not really, it's because how he posts them which is always along the same line - I'm the only one posting the truth, everyone else either clueless or lying to upsell worthless product.

Quote his insults in threads so I can read the context of his remark.

I doubt there's much sense providing his quotes here, but if you are really interested, why don't you do a search for his posts in general or reviews or other forums... Plenty to read.

 

[cziv]

No other backyard tester else has the attitude he does.


Yet Vassilii is the one discrediting and insulting everyone, makers, testers, opponents. I figure, you don't view his posts that way, but calling opponents test results gargage, or lies is hardly inviting for s civil discussion.


Not really, it's because how he posts them which is always along the same line - I'm the only one posting the truth, everyone else either clueless or lying to upsell worthless product.


I doubt there's much sense providing his quotes here, but if you are really interested, why don't you do a search for his posts in general or reviews or other forums... Plenty to read.

I just read his statistics and at least 100 random posts, some which were in disagreement with other members directly. I got tired of going back several pages to see what all the different quotes were in regard to, but I did.

I could find no example of him calling people's work or findings anything negative. I will believe that somewhere he has said something rude or insulting but I couldn't find it. So, I'm not going to argue about him or defend my right to say "hey lay off." From what you and other members indicate, he's quite capable of dishing out his own licks.

I dislike cliquey or group attitudes that predispose others to think someone or something is bad or good for that matter (it doesn't matter). This slowly, overtime, destroys ideas, credibility and free expression of ideas.

 

[Ankerson]

Wow. The Vassili debate again....
I found CTS-XHP to be a great steel. It is my favorite stainless steel right now. Definitely holds a wicked edge for a while and a working edge for even longer. Rather easy to sharpen also. I cannot tell the difference between ELMAX and CTS-XHP in performance. I'd say they are about the same, but XHP is easier to sharpen. It is also tougher than ZDP-189, which makes it more suitable for my type of uses (hard use/heavy cutting).
The only steel that works better for me, than the CTS-XHP, is the CPM-M4, which seems to be tougher, hold an edge longers, and sharpen rather with the same ease. The only advantage the XHP steel has over the M4, is corrosion resistance.

Also, I think that hating on Vassili and his test results has became far too popular on these forums. He works hard, to bring us informative data in regards to all kinds of knife steels. His tests show different results than some of the other, popular testers, and that is why he's being disregarded. That is total BS. He seems only "aggressive" because he saw with his own eyes the difference in performance of these steels, and to him, what some people claim seems absurd. I think that his tests are real, and the results are true. His methods are different, yet rather precise and "scientific". It is good to have that data-base so we can compare it with other data and then with our own use of these steels. For the media he is cutting and testing with, CTS-XHP did extremely well, and even better than some other, better regarded steels. I am a total believer. It is indeed a great steel, and depends on the media you're cutting, it may perform better than some of the "higher end" steels. Stop claiming he tries to mislead people, he is just a believer in what he SEES. Nothing wrong with that. So, lay off him, nobody wants a monkey on his back, and it seems that Vassili finds himself in the middle of the jungle, whenever he posts anything around here.

XHP is easier to sharpen because of the Chromium carbides compared to ELMAX with the Vanadium and Chromium carbides. ELMAX is more wear resistant due to the harder carbides and higher overall carbide content.

It will be interesting to see more blades offered in XHP and see what the Hardness is running on them so we can get a better idea of what is going on. The more data the better to look at.

Test blades in XHP haven't been forthcoming as there really aren't any except the Manix 2 Sprint run to go off of. The XM-18 is too thick for a test blade in my testing process.

Like ZDP-189 performance has more to do with the high hardness (65 HRC) than the carbides, while they help it they are still softer than Vanadium carbides.

 

[Razorsharp1986]

Double post