Cts-xhp

I have manix cts-xhp and xm-18 both users , this is great steel one of my favorite . :thumbup:
 
After some testing with my Bark River XHP prototype, I find the comparison to D2 to be valid.





Once the edge looses it initial sharpness, it settles into to a working edge that seems to just keep cutting.

I do find the XHP a bit easier to sharpen then the Dozer D2 blades on my hunting knives.





Big Mike
 
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I personally didn't like the steel too much. First thing that bugged me was the type of carbides. it acts much like ZDP-189 with a high volume of Chromium carbides, and also like S30V in that it loses its razor edge quickly but keeps a working edge for a long time. The thing is that the working edge is very "toothy". My razor edge was dulled after about 5-10 cuts on cardboard and would tear the cardboard instead of push cutting through it. However a slicing cut would still work quite well.

My other issue was that 440C level of corrosion resistance simply isn't enough given the humidity in Hawaii. It probably isn't enough even for food prep in other places as the water left in the pivot area from washing the blade will cause it to rust.

Still, I find it comparable to my Dozier Buffalo River Hunter. So it would more or less be like a mass production version of his D2 knives with his heat treat, but without the wait and cheaper too:thumbup:.
 
Sal Glesser said:
We used Carpenter's first batch for a sprint run. Then their next batch was flawed so they couldn't ship. As I understand, they are now shipping XHP again so we'll be using it on future models.

We had plans to use it on some of our new models, but had to change due to production problems making the steel.

sal
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thank you for the info. i can't wait to see where your next batch of XHP ends up.
 
Sal Glesser said:
We used Carpenter's first batch for a sprint run. Then their next batch was flawed so they couldn't ship. As I understand, they are now shipping XHP again so we'll be using it on future models.

We had plans to use it on some of our new models, but had to change due to production problems making the steel.

sal
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Interesting - Sal, or anyone else - how common are flaws like that in steelmaking?
 
I have CTS-XHP on 3 hinderer XM-18's. Only one is a user and it's a ferocious cutter. I've never formally sharpened it, only stropped it well after cutting cardboard and a 3' length of 2x4. It keeps it's edge very well.

I coated my action (pivot), blade and anything made of steel with Miltech-1, 3 applications on blow dryer heated metal. I've allowed standing water to dry on the blade to test it and it dried up clean and wiped right off the coated finish, leaving it looking brand new.

I'm loving it!! :D
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi GeroldP,

CTS-XHP was forulated by Carpenter Steel to be a stainless D2. Early testing and one short run has proven the steel to be competitive in performance with other high carbon stainless steels.

There are some forumites that believe it is quite superior to most stainless steels on the market today.

sal
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This is pretty simplistic description of this steel. I am wondering why Spyderco which claim to have their own R&D and being expert in steels just replicating this wording taken out of context from promotional materials on Carpennter's web site. It looks like Spyderco has no their own info on this steel and reffering to Carpenter and forumites.

To me it has bit similar composition but this is it. D2 and CTS-XHP are two different steels. CTS-XHP is good old 440XH produced using micromelting technology.

I did my own manila rope testing (formal unlike other) and I rate this steel as one of the best.

This is best American made steel which able to compete with ZDP189 and Dozier's heat treated D2 (he has some special process making it best).

All other steels are far behind and whoever can recognise that already switch to CTS-XHP - Hiderer doing his knives only with this steel - price jump twice, but it is steel hard to find knives.

Spyderco promising to do more knives out of this steel, but continue to fail to deliver this promises, and with resent decline in it's quality standards it is really hard to expect soon.

This is best performing steel made in USA, but for some reason it did not make it's way to US knife market. Only German maker Hiderer uses it.

Instead we are pushed to believe that EU made steel - Elmax and M360, which show poor performance are superior to everything made in US. This is very strange trend to me. I was expecting this steel being dominating US knife market in a year once it was accidentally introduced, because superiority of this steel hard not to notice, but after year it is not in production at all (except Hiderer which is made in Germany).

Thanks, Vassili.
 
spyken said:
I believe CTS-XHP is closer to D2 (as per Dozier).

CTS-40CP is closer to 440C.

Then there's CTS-20CP - closer to S90V.

I think it's time for a death match between CTS-XHP - S30V - CPM154V - ELMAX - (and some 390? German steel) :D
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All this steels are good only in papers produced by marketing drons and promotional posts. They are pretty average performers and far behind CTS-XHP -

S30V, CPM154, ELMAX, M390

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
All this steels are good only in papers produced by marketing drons and promotional posts. They are pretty average performers and far behind CTS-XHP -

S30V, CPM154, ELMAX, M390

Thanks, Vassili.
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how would you rank them, in terms of edge retention and toughness?

I think D2 by Dozier and ZDP are currently the top dogs for you right? what about INFI?
 
nozh2002 said:
This is pretty simplistic description of this steel. I am wondering why Spyderco which claim to have their own R&D and being expert in steels just replicating this wording taken out of context from promotional materials on Carpennter's web site. It looks like Spyderco has no their own info on this steel and reffering to Carpenter and forumites.

To me it has bit similar composition but this is it. D2 and CTS-XHP are two different steels. CTS-XHP is good old 440XH produced using micromelting technology.

I did my own manila rope testing (formal unlike other) and I rate this steel as one of the best.

This is best American made steel which able to compete with ZDP189 and Dozier's heat treated D2 (he has some special process making it best).

All other steels are far behind and whoever can recognise that already switch to CTS-XHP - Hiderer doing his knives only with this steel - price jump twice, but it is steel hard to find knives.

Spyderco promising to do more knives out of this steel, but continue to fail to deliver this promises, and with resent decline in it's quality standards it is really hard to expect soon.

This is best performing steel made in USA, but for some reason it did not make it's way to US knife market. Only German maker Hiderer uses it.

Instead we are pushed to believe that EU made steel - Elmax and M360, which show poor performance are superior to everything made in US. This is very strange trend to me. I was expecting this steel being dominating US knife market in a year once it was accidentally introduced, because superiority of this steel hard not to notice, but after year it is not in production at all (except Hiderer which is made in Germany).

Thanks, Vassili.
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!) There is no "best". The fact that you used this word so loosely really discredits the rest of your post.
2) Rick Hinderer is an American knife maker who lives in Shreve, Ohio USA.
3) Everyone who has used the specified steels(not including you of course), has agreed that performance is well above most commonly available steels in production knives.

Given what I pointed out, I think it ought to be pretty clear that you have a few facts wrong. But don't worry, I'm sure a lot of us got a pretty good chuckle when you claimed that Rick Hinderer is a German knife maker:thumbup:.
 
Noctis3880 said:
!) There is no "best". The fact that you used this word so loosely really discredits the rest of your post.
2) Rick Hinderer is an American knife maker who lives in Shreve, Ohio USA.
3) Everyone who has used the specified steels(not including you of course), has agreed that performance is well above most commonly available steels in production knives.

Given what I pointed out, I think it ought to be pretty clear that you have a few facts wrong. But don't worry, I'm sure a lot of us got a pretty good chuckle when you claimed that Rick Hinderer is a German knife maker:thumbup:.
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Noc, I think most everyone just ignores the guy at this point. Don't dignify his twaddle with a response and maybe he'll just fade away again.
 
JNewell said:
Interesting - Sal, or anyone else - how common are flaws like that in steelmaking?
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i have no first hand knowledge, but these high alloy steels can only be made with the powdered metallurgy process. my educated guess would be that the problem was with uniformity and/or grain structure. it's good to know, whatever the problem was that either carpenter's or spyderco's quality control caught it.
 
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Ankerson said:
Yes M390 will beat ELMAX no doubt, but M390 is a premium steel that would be used in high end blades.
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Would you consider the Benchmade 755 MPR, which has an M390 blade, to be a high end blade? I paid substantially less brand new for the knife than for my ZT 0300 (price differential at MSRP is about $100 more for the ZT) which comes with S30V. Perhaps then the question should be if the S30V in the ZT knives is "better" than the M390. Perhaps it's tougher?

How expensive or high end does a knife "need" to be for it to be a high end knife?

Lots of questions! Sorry about that. :eek:

Thanks for your response. :)
 
Folderguy said:
Would you consider the Benchmade 755 MPR, which has an M390 blade, to be a high end blade? I paid substantially less brand new for the knife than for my ZT 0300 (price differential at MSRP is about $100 more for the ZT) which comes with S30V. Perhaps then the question should be if the S30V in the ZT knives is "better" than the M390. Perhaps it's tougher?

How expensive or high end does a knife "need" to be for it to be a high end knife?

Lots of questions! Sorry about that. :eek:

Thanks for your response. :)
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Nobody has a regular production blade in M390, so far we have only limited runs.

The Price of the steel is on par with CPM-S90V.

Only Kershaw could answer that question about ZT.

Comparing ZT to Benchmade is like apples and oranges.
 
Ankerson said:
Nobody has a regular production blade in M390, so far we have only limited runs.

The Price of the steel is on par with CPM-S90V.

Only Kershaw could answer that question about ZT.

Comparing ZT to Benchmade is like apples and oranges.
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Aha! Gotcha. I wasn't aware the BM 755 was a limited run. Very helpful.

Here's another question: how much more does a steel like M390 cost on a per folder blade basis compared to an S30V? or 440C?

Is there a website or a link you'd recommend that I take a look at to get up to snuff on this?

Thanks.
 
Folderguy said:
Aha! Gotcha. I wasn't aware the BM 755 was a limited run. Very helpful.

Here's another question: how much more does a steel like M390 cost on a per folder blade basis compared to an S30V? or 440C?

Is there a website or a link you'd recommend that I take a look at to get up to snuff on this?

Thanks.
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Alpha Knife Supply has price listings for steels and other materials.

Just the Steel alone doesn't tell the whole story about finial cost, they still have to made into knife blades and HT.
 
Ankerson said:
Alpha Knife Supply has price listings for steels and other materials.

Just the Steel alone doesn't tell the whole story about finial cost, they still have to made into knife blades and HT.
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Of course, the Steel alone doesn't, but it sure seems to be a very relevant factor.

Thanks for the info.
 
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