Designated Political Arena constructive criticism & suggestions for improvements thread

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Casinostocks

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The incessant political topics showing up under the new posts side bar on the main page, inadvertently and gratuitously push down and therefore submerge so many more knife forum related posts, ergo Exchange posts, Maintenance posts, Outdoor posts, Community posts and so many other interesting posts related to the essence of this knife community.

I have read your response to Nathan the Machinist in the other thread and I understand your trepidations regarding bullying and the so-called “cancel culture”. I think that your concerns are somewhat misguided because by and large, the respectful demand has been to treat PA the same as W&C. If for nothing, my previous paragraph should be a pretty good argument for what many have asked you time and time again. While some or perhaps many wood find the contents of W&C rude, crude, disturbing, disgusting, uncouth or whatever superlative you wish to add, some also find the overt discussion topics regarding religion and politics in the same vein. As much as the PA topics may be unpleasant, the removal of that sub will be a sacrilege for those of us who firmly believe in free speech not meant as instigating violence.

Respectfully speaking, IMHO, your decision to allow the PA content to seep through is not a sound decision both in terms of the business and also the service. I don’t see as to why I should buy a $60 PG Platinum membership because that wood deny me the enjoyment which I get by viewing the crude and smutty sh*t which is often the highlights of W&C.

I am one of those who will not renew paid membership based on this current format. This will not make many people tear up and in fact for everyone like me who bails on the paid membership one PA denizen will undoubtedly step up to go full on Platinum. Maybe that skewed addition by subtraction argument would be a welcoming idea to some. I shrug.
 

Fixall

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...probably a good idea simply because of the number of people who are unable to scroll past political arena titles without having an episode.

I feel attacked. :p

In all seriousness, I think this would go a long ways towards addressing the majority of the issues people have.
 

Willie71

Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker
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I think moderation in that forum would be much better if there were mods a bit left of fascist. I’m not being hyperbolic here. The two mods are extremely conservative, and rarely see anything wrong with what republicans say or do. Now, I’m Canadian, and have no dog in the 2nd amendment argument, but most of the people I know here own guns, and I have no issue with that. I also believe after nearly three decades in mental health, some people are too unstable to be trusted with shoelaces, let alone guns.

When peer reviewed research from respected scholars/journals/universities gets branded leftist propaganda, there is a problem. The mods keep saying support your position, and when you do, they dismiss the source. On the other hand, white supremicist sources posted by certain members are seen as credible.

I fully own going over the top on a mod who I believe I caught lying about his professional life, and own that. However, the abuse heaped on myself and other members there was never addressed. It was reported many times. People who would be considered far right extremists even in Alberta were called leftists there, as if that is supposed to be pejorative. Repeatedly calling out the whole of leftism as being welfare queens, unemployed, stupid, or weak should not be tolelated by moderators, yet they often are the ones making those types of comments.
 

Fixall

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I think moderation in that forum would be much better if there were mods a bit left of fascist. I’m not being hyperbolic here. The two mods are extremely conservative, and rarely see anything wrong with what republicans say or do. Now, I’m Canadian, and have no dog in the 2nd amendment argument, but most of the people I know here own guns, and I have no issue with that. I also believe after nearly three decades in mental health, some people are too unstable to be trusted with shoelaces, let alone guns.

When peer reviewed research from respected scholars/journals/universities gets branded leftist propaganda, there is a problem. The mods keep saying support your position, and when you do, they dismiss the source. On the other hand, white supremicist sources posted by certain members are seen as credible.

I fully own going over the top on a mod who I believe I caught lying about his professional life, and own that. However, the abuse heaped on myself and other members there was never addressed. It was reported many times. People who would be considered far right extremists even in Alberta were called leftists there, as if that is supposed to be pejorative. Repeatedly calling out the whole of leftism as being welfare queens, unemployed, stupid, or weak should not be tolelated by moderators, yet they often are the ones making those types of comments.

Sadly, my experiences mirror yours. I've voted Republican/Libertarian locally for for almost 20 years and was labeled a leftist in there the moment I opened my mouth because I didn't buy into the conspiracy theories without proof and believe in science.
 

Willie71

Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker
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Sadly, my experiences mirror yours. I've voted Republican/Libertarian locally for for almost 20 years and was labeled a leftist in there the moment I opened my mouth because I didn't buy into the conspiracy theories without proof and believe in science.

Yeah, science is leftist propaganda to discredit republicans. The entire world is in on it. The weak leftists control every country, university, academic etc just to make republicans look bad.
 

Spark

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'Mods are fascist' and 'white supremacist sources' needs some citation, post haste. If your proof of this is Fox news or similar, you aren't going to enjoy the result.
Hey dude, I noticed that you have a bone to pick with me. I've also noticed that you have a real problem with following directions. Don't mistake my laid back manner with not paying attention to your antics or an endless supply of patience.
 

Spark

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Yeah, science is leftist propaganda to discredit republicans. The entire world is in on it. The weak leftists control every country, university, academic etc just to make republicans look bad.

This is not productive.
 

SnackPack

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'Mods are fascist' and 'white supremacist sources' needs some citation, post haste. If your proof of this is Fox news or similar, you aren't going to enjoy the result.

Hey dude, I noticed that you have a bone to pick with me. I've also noticed that you have a real problem with following directions. Don't mistake my laid back manner with not paying attention to your antics or an endless supply of patience.[/

Are members allowed to point out obvious failures of the mods to follow their own rules or is it a do as I say not as I do situation. Serious question.
 

Willie71

Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker
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'Mods are fascist' and 'white supremacist sources' needs some citation, post haste. If your proof of this is Fox news or similar, you aren't going to enjoy the result.

Hey dude, I noticed that you have a bone to pick with me. I've also noticed that you have a real problem with following directions. Don't mistake my laid back manner with not paying attention to your antics or an endless supply of patience.

Im banned from political. I would have to go back 5 years or so to find those posts. Fascism isn’t a pejorative, but a description of the political spectrum. Def stormer, or storefront was a common source posted by one of the members. There was another one that I would have to try to remember.
Fox News is just entertainment, and they defend themselves in court saying no reasonable person would believe what they say, so that isn’t what I would be referring to.

Stormfront: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/stormfront
 

Willie71

Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker
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This is not productive.

I agree. That’s why I brought it up. How do you counter those attitudes in the mods?

Ask the mods what they think of the research on climate science, gender, homosexuality, race etc.
 
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rje58

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Sounds like the boss is just asking for examples from the people making accusations. If citations can be found, sounds like he wants to take action. If they are baseless, sounds like he may want to take action. It's his choice. We are in his house, his rules.

Are members allowed to point out obvious failures of the mods to follow their own rules or is it a do as I say not as I do situation. Serious question.
 

Dadpool

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I started a thread some time ago asking if it was possible for users to hide the politics subforum, particularly from New Posts (the primary way I browse the site). The takeaway was no, but that it could be done on the admin side with a fair amount of work. The possibility of a "no politics" membership was floated, and I still like that idea -- especially if the cost is identical to the tier it lands at (e.g., Gold and No Politics Gold are the same price).

In the meantime, I took the advice of a couple other posters and just put everyone who starts a thread in the politics subforum on ignore. I'm sure I miss quality knife-related posts from some of those posters, but I can live with that price and it has improved my BF experience. I'd prefer a less brute-force solution, though.

IMO that subforum is a toxic cesspit that reflects poorly on BF as a whole. I know it's not going anywhere, but I think it should be made as inaccessible to broad, public view as the Cove.
 

Pàdruig

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This is a less popular opinion - one that I've already iterated - but I feel that the PA should remain. It is designed to contain the opinions and related debates with regards to some of the most inflammatory topics our modern society is currently grappling with. An outright ban of politics, on a forum of this size, would create an enormous amount of work for the mods. When you get a large group of folks who like knives, which often goes hand in hand with firearms as well, politics are going to leak out everywhere. Containing these sorts of topics, instead of mopping up spills or plugging leaks all over the place, seems to be a more pragmatic approach.

A reasonable compromise, in my opinion, would be to hide posts in the PA from the New Posts category, as has been suggested. I don't personally use that feature so it doesn't impact me one way or the other but it would certainly appease a lot of folks.

I read far more in the PA than I post and I view it as a sort of weather vane, much like I view other parts of the forum. Sometimes, it is to sate a morbid curiosity - others, I actually find some interesting topics and related dialogue. It requires a thick skin and a healthy understanding of logical fallacies - also, restraint and knowing when to withdraw are key.

Still, this is a knife forum and I am here for that purpose, as well as the good friends I've made. The only real way this whole business affects me negatively is if more extremist(violent) views don't get policed accordingly and the forums get shut down by some over zealous entity. I feel the PA mods are taking this to heart but it remains to be seen whether their future efforts reflect that or not.

I don't do other forms of social media (aside from Instagram on occasion) - this is my one not-so-guilty pleasure and I'd hate to see it go away.
 
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Spark

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Are members allowed to point out obvious failures of the mods to follow their own rules or is it a do as I say not as I do situation. Serious question.
When there's an issue with mods you bring it to supers, then me. Given that you are on my radar prior to this, & your attitude in the other threads the failure may not be the mods.
Im banned from political. I would have to go back 5 years or so to find those posts. Fascism isn’t a pejorative, but a description of the political spectrum. Def stormer, or storefront was a common source posted by one of the members. There was another one that I would have to try to remember.
Fox News is just entertainment, and they defend themselves in court saying no reasonable person would believe what they say, so that isn’t what I would be referring to.

Stormfront: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/stormfront

Last things first, being Jewish I know fully well what stormfront is. That's not a citation.

Second, you were banned off the site for your inability to keep from sassing mods and were only allowed back with the understanding that you'd stay out of the PA. When warnings are issued we have a thread automatically generated for discussion in the moderator area and the consensus among 5 different mods was that you were out of line, acting irrationally & it was a noticable, spiraling pattern of behavior that caused concern for your well being. After your ban & subsequent reregistering there was discussion about it being a bad precedent as you are prone to blame shifting & the inability to take responsibility for your own actions. Upon review it's looking less like you have a valid complaint and more about a long standing grudge on your part.

Now here we are again, with you making allegations about Stormfront being an accepted source & mods being fascists (but it's totes not a prejorative, pinky swear!). I searched for dailystormer & stormfront and found no links to either site, so I have to wonder if you are deliberately poisoning the well considering that you went full Godwin.

Do. Not. Fuck. With. Me. Regarding. Neo. Nazis.
Do not make baseless accusations about tolerance of neo-nazism. Do not imply that I support Nazis, or white supremacy, or any other bigotry you want to toss out there. I've got a few red lines and that is one of them because for me it's really, really personal.
 

madcap_magician

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I am a bit concerned that outright removal of the PA subforum would only make moderating politics out of the rest of the forum too hard. The only gun board I'm still a member at has always had a strict no politics rule, but the way things are these days, even that forum is no longer a bastion of reasonableness, and apparently folks with common interests are no longer able to agree to disagree about other things in this new modern world of post-2020.

I am a free speech absolutist and would never want to silence any of the voices here, even if I think they're crazy. I would never vote to silence them... But I don't want to listen to them, either.

So again, I'll gladly pay for a super-PG version of the forum without PA or WC.
 

not2sharp

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I grew up in NYC, and as a teen I use to like going on long walks all over town. I use to get a kick out of watching and meeting people of all walks of life. Some were funny, others scary, many were oblivious and many others were interesting. You could never be sure what you would run into and that was part of the fun. I well remember a neighbor who had been a marine during WWII. He had received a head wound during the war and was never again quite right. He was often walking the street in full Vintage uniform.

Then there is as that very old man, whom I often would encounter and help across the street. Who that was I would never know, but I could set my watch by him and often did. To be sure there were racist and communist, religious nuts and some who were just plain nuts. The one who told me that he was starting his own religion was probably both. It was a never ending swath of colorful people. It would have been easy to take offense; but I was never that thin skin.

Today, we live in fear of being branded politically incorrect; and we are tasked with sheltering those who are overly sensitive. I don’t get it since I was never so sheltered. My generation strives for inclusion and wanted to desegregate. To put an end the ethnic and cultural ghettos, to learn and enjoy each other’s company; or at least to tolerate and laugh off the differences.

But, thing change and now we want to segregate, to shield ourselves from conflicting opinion. The free exchange of ideas hurts the ears, we mustn’t have that. Well it is pointless to buck the strong social currents, you will just be pulled off your footing and washed down stream. But, it’s a shame, the receding waters leave jumbled piles of bare stone upon which nothing can grow.

N2s
 
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