Designated Political Arena constructive criticism & suggestions for improvements thread

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HJK said:
Camel-a is not, in my judgement, racist unless Kamala is Arabic.
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That's a stereotype, India has some of the only feral populations of Camels in the world, Kamala's mother is Indian.....................
 
HJK said:
When you tell a story, tell the whole story, please. Your complaint was considered and respnded to, at some length, by a Mod, me. No doubt it was also seen and my response considered by supers.
Camel-a is not, in my judgement, racist unless Kamala is Arabic. Is it disrespectful? certainly. If you think political discussion should be respectful then you would have to scrub 90% of political comments about Trump, Bush, Trudeau, and 90% of what Swift, Voltaire, paine et al wrote. Frankly, I think it should be an offence to make respectful comments about Trudeau ;)

Not every complaint a member has is legit and not everything done or not done by the Mods is biased.

The issue, as always, is to know where to draw the line between legitimate comment and sarcasm vs abusive witless comments. We have gone to great lengths to try to do that fairly and explain the criteria, especially during this "reset" As an example, look at my long explanation and ilustration in the meme thread.

Just as there is a difference between legitimate and illegitimate commentary on politics there is legitimate and illegitimate commentary on the PA and members. This thread contains both.
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I disagree with both the usage and the explanation that was provided in the thread.

I will not tell a story (as you just did), here’s a link so that people can make up their own minds. The initial comment is made in post 2, my inquiry is on post 15, the dogpile follows that:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...is-the-year-every-year.1769580/#post-20263783

That said, I do appreciate the changes that were recently made in the PA. :thumbsup:
 
Norcaldude said:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-return-of-civility.1769704/

You will not use shitty language towards each other or petty nicknames for public figures.
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The day when you cannot use witty nicknames for public figures is the day the political forum is not allowed to be a political forum.
"Petty" is a measure of wit and taste, not a measure of respect and politcial correctitude.
And you are not the judge of that or, with respect, conversant enough with the history of political commentary or disinterested enough to know the difference.

I posted an example of a great political cartoon playing off Oscar Wilde and could multiply examples of lampoons of political figures that are classics of sarcasm and political wit. Maybe you just want to silence people and destroy the PA like a Quaker at a rave. Sorry, not on my watch.
 
Sounds like Spark solved the problem... the PA won't show up anymore to "offend" those with sensitive proclivities... Why is the issue still being discussing? The WHINE&CHEESERS are happy now, yes?
 
craytab said:
So, if a racial slur is used as an insult but inaccurately it magically becomes not racist?

:thumbsup:

As I said, might be time for us to all move on....
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I've never seen any racial slurs there... but I have in other "hidden" forums... so I don't comment in those.
 
craytab said:
So, if a racial slur is used as an insult but inaccurately it magically becomes not racist?

:thumbsup:

As I said, might be time for us to all move on....
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Calling a white man a stupid monkey, is that a racial slur? If it were applied to a black person, maybe, but to say calling a white man a stupid monkey is racist because it would be racist if applied to a black man is just nonsensical

"You're not really black" Is that a racist slur?
Calling Sowell a honky or a Tom, is that a racial slur?

Good heavens. Listen to yourself.
 
HJK said:
The day when you cannot use witty nicknames for public figuresn is the day the political forum is not allowed to be a political forum.
"Petty" is a measure of wit and taste, not a measure of respect and politcial correctitude.
And you are not the judge of that or, withy respect, conversant enough with the history of political commentary or disinterested enough to know the difference.
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Another in that thread used the term "Camel-toe". I also saw (possibly different thread) Obama referred to as "O-butthole". I don't think genitals and orifices have ever been considered tasteful. I do admit I am a sucker for dirty humor, but if we're talking civil politics, those have no place.
 
HJK said:
Calling a white man a stupid monkey, is that a racial slur? If it were applied to a black person, maybe, but to say calling a white man a stupid monkey is racist because it would be racist if applied to a black man is just nonsensical

"You're not really black" Is that a racist slur?
Calling Sowell a honky or a Tom, is that a racial slur?

Good heavens. Listen to yourself.
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Nice try. I won't be taking your bait. This isn't the PA and nor is your use of a racial slur the topic of this thread. Looks like I made a mistake taking you off ignore because I somehow thought the new rules would make your posts more palatable. That mistake is now corrected. Bye!
 
timcsaw said:
I've never seen any racial slurs there... but I have in other "hidden" forums... so I don't comment in those.
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HJK said:
Calling a white man a stupid monkey, is that a racial slur? If it were applied to a black person, maybe, but to say calling a white man a stupid monkey is racist because it would be racist if applied to a black man is just nonsensical

"You're not really black" Is that a racist slur?
Calling Sowell a honky or a Tom, is that a racial slur?

Good heavens. Listen to yourself.
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Camel-a is a racist slur, you're replacing a brown woman's name with a brown animal so it's exactly like comparing a black person to a monkey.

I actually despise Kamala she is one of the most snide people in politics but calling her Camel-a???? Sounds pretty racist to me.
 
HJK said:
The day when you cannot use witty nicknames for public figures is the day the political forum is not allowed to be a political forum.
"Petty" is a measure of wit and taste, not a measure of respect and politcial correctitude.
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You're going to say that 'Camel-a' is witty? That is your defense?

HJK said:
And you are not the judge of that or, with respect, conversant enough with the history of political commentary or disinterested enough to know the difference.
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Wtf? Really? How do you know how conversant I am with the history of political commentary?

HJK said:
Sorry, not on my watch.
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Maybe it's time for your end of watch as mod then. I posted a clear rule from Spark that you violated and you are going to try and claim it doesn't violate that rule. Because I am not conversant enough with political commentary to understand your wit.
 
lieferung said:
Another in that thread used the term "Camel-toe". I also saw (possibly different thread) Obama referred to as "O-butthole". I don't think genitals and orifices have ever been considered tasteful. I do admit I am a sucker for dirty humor, but if we're talking civil politics, those have no place.
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O'butthole is offensive, stupid and not allowed. Not every impropewr comments gets axed depending on context, like a series of comments all equally bad and equally criticized. You can't just pluch it out of context.
Camel-toe, well I find that offensive like I find pictures of Michelle Obama with a penis or unkind comments about melania, and I do criticize them, but where it is a relevant politcal statement about how manly Barack was relative to Putin, for example, it's discouraged but allowed if subtle enough.
I caught hell for using O'bama when his supporters made a big deal about his race. I also used Trumpf. If you think those are racist abominations then I can't help you, politics are not for you.
 
RoyalHolic said:
Camel-a is a racist slur, you're replacing a brown woman's name with a brown animal so it's exactly like comparing a black person to a monkey.

I actually despise Kamala she is one of the most snide people in politics but calling her Camel-a???? Sounds pretty racist to me.
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You think it's racist because both Kamala and camels are "brown"? Wow.

I'll say this once and then I actually have to work.
You are like the boy who was given a Rorschach test. The first one he said was two people screwing. The next he said was a man screwing a dog, the next he said was a woman scfrewing a horse.
The doctor turned to him and said, "Son, you have a serious sex perversion problem"
And the boy outraged turned to the doctor and said,
"Me? YOU'RE the one showing me all those filthy pictures!"
 
timcsaw said:
Sounds like Spark solved the problem... the PA won't show up anymore to "offend" those with sensitive proclivities... Why is the issue still being discussing? The WHINE&CHEESERS are happy now, yes?
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timcsaw said:
I've never seen any racial slurs there... but I have in other "hidden" forums... so I don't comment in those.
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It is still being discussed because some of you can't let it go and move on. Why not give it a try? Go back to the PA and discuss to your heart's content. Continuing to defend a position that has been ruled against seems like a waste of time here and surely won't end well.

So with that in mind, I'll bow out of this thread. Someone has to be the bigger person. Now go ahead, have the last word.
 
HJK said:
O'butthole is offensive, stupid and not allowed. Not every impropewr comments gets axed depending on context, like a series of comments all equally bad and equally criticized. You can't just pluch it out of context.
Camel-toe, well I find that offensive like I find pictures of Michelle Obama with a penis or unkind comments about melania, and I do criticize them, but where it is a relevant politcal statement about how manly Barack was relative to Putin, for example, it's discouraged but allowed if subtle enough.
I caught hell for using O'bama when his supporters made a big deal about his race. I also used Trumpf. If you think those are racist abominations then I can't help you, politics are not for you.
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y'all gonna start acting right and communicating like adults with civility & manners.
Conduct yourselves like adults

You are the moderator for a political forum but it sounds like you think it's ok to use 'pet names' for politicians and other public figures? Do you not understand how that makes it very much more difficult to rationally talk about political policy when people use insulting "witty" names for people? Do you not understand how that makes your job as moderator more difficult?
 
HJK said:
You think it's racist because both Kamala and camels are "brown"? Wow.

I'll say this once and then I actually have to work.
You are like the boy who was given a Rorschach test. The first one he said was two people screwing. The next he said was a man screwing a dog, the next he said was a woman scfrewing a horse.
The doctor turned to him and said, "Son, you have a serious sex perversion problem"
And the boy outraged turned to the doctor and said,
"Me? YOU'RE the one showing me all those filthy pictures!"
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lol

So calling a black person an "ape or monkey" by your logic is racist but a brown woman who's mother is Indian a camel is "not racist" because Why?????

Yet by your logic it's only racist if Arab's are associated with camels.....K
 
Norcaldude said:
You're going to say that 'Camel-a' is witty? That is your defense?



Wtf? Really? How do you know how conversant I am with the history of political commentary?



Maybe it's time for your end of watch as mod then. I posted a clear rule from Spark that you violated and you are going to try and claim it doesn't violate that rule. Because I am not conversant enough with political commentary to understand your wit.
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I judge people by what they say and do. You have evidenced absolutely no understanding of the nature and history nof political commentary and would ban Voltaire, Swift, Luther and sarcasm.

Your interpretation of a rule is not the only interpretaton of a rule or of Spark's intent.

No, I did not say Camela was witty. I said it wasn't racist. Calling her a stupid cow isn't racist either, but not because it's witty. It may however be mysogynst, but because of the history of that epithet as applied to women. See how that works?

It's fairly obvious by the personal attacks and puerile meritless criticisms that the entire point of this exercise is to get rid of the PA or at least eviscerate it and that getting rid of me as Mod is a prime goal.

I am only here ( in PA) to support Spark's courage and a genuinely viable and reasonably free discourse,

Frankly, if the place gets dumbed down in accordance with the W & C design then it isn't worth it at all. And boy, most of these protestations are really really dumb.

It's up to Spark and the better members of this forum to choose, I guess.
 
HJK said:
The day when you cannot use witty nicknames for public figures is the day the political forum is not allowed to be a political forum.
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If you're not intelligent enough to make an argument, of if your argument isn't strong enough, that you have to resort to silly namecalling, then maybe you shouldn't be arguing politics in the first place. Political discussion without namecalling, both about each other and the political figures in question, is absolutely possible, and if you're incapable, then maybe you shouldn't be participating in, much less moderating, such a forum.

As a moderator you're supposed to lead by example. And to your credit, you have, but as a very bad example. People follow your lead, and because if you do it, it's OK for everybody else to do it. And because the PA forum leans so heavily in one direction, when one person has a dissenting opinion, all the namecalling and dogpiling (I won't call it group think) becomes tantamount to bullying. Even if it's about a political figure and not the member. Look at the turd that just got flushed, @Feca10ne. Because he has a beef with W&C (apparently while he was using one of his multiple previous accounts) he labeled everybody there "liberals", when that's actually pretty damn far from the truth. It's also quite amusing that he accuses the W&C regulars of exactly the same thing he gleefully participated did in the PA. It's no wonder that the PA has turned into the absolute shitshow it is (hopefully was).

I can't believe I have to explain this to a grown-ass man.

You replied "Loud and clear" to Spark's decree, but then right here you said that it's impossible. What can anybody make of this except that you're not the man for the job?

For the record, I'm not solely blaming you for what the PA has become. Lots of people are at fault there.
 
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