Full tang not necessarily stronger tang.

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Houlahound, Dec 5, 2019.

  1. superpog

    superpog Basic Member Basic Member

    49
    Nov 9, 2019
    1. Applying historian weapon experience to modern knife may not be proper.
    2. Comparing partial tang soft steel A to full tang harder steel B is not comparing partial tang to full tang. You have three variants here, tang, hardness and steel type...

    If all other variants are the same, what is the benefit of partial tang over full tang for over built knives? cheaper?
     
  2. Houlahound

    Houlahound

    389
    Aug 2, 2017
    I agree and that was my point, a composite hardness partial tang can be effectively as strong as a full width, full thickness, full length tang.
     
  3. evilgreg

    evilgreg Why so serious? Gold Member

    Dec 25, 2012
    I agree that a full tang knife is stronger than a partial tang knife. I'd just argue the additional strength is unnecessary. As @marcinek above points out with his kabar example, there are plenty of sturdy knives that have proven themselves with decades of practical use behind them that are partial tang knives of some variety or another.

    Google broken + anything and you'll get a picture back, and a thread on some forum about how product x is the worst thing in the world because it broke.

    That doesn't make it common or likely . . .
     
  4. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    Apr 6, 2017
    Yes, but if his point is that the tips break because that's what he sees during a google image search, then there's ample evidence that tangs also break.
     
  5. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    Apr 6, 2017
    Well, it won't be as "strong". But it could be tougher (ie. less likely to fracture).
     
  6. marcinek

    marcinek Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 9, 2007
    Point taken, but tangs don't break, combat or otherwise. The join between the tang and blade can break. That is what we are talking about, and that doesn't have an opposite end.
     
  7. marcinek

    marcinek Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 9, 2007
    Is he a metallurgist, materials scientist, or knifemaker?
     
  8. Houlahound

    Houlahound

    389
    Aug 2, 2017
    If number of images means anything then there are relatively zero pics of broken tangs compared to broken everywhere else other than the tang pics.

    The knives breaking the tang theory does not appear to have the evidence to support it. The knife breaking anywhere other than the tang theory is well supported.
     
  9. Houlahound

    Houlahound

    389
    Aug 2, 2017
    No, but what would that have to do with researching the historicall incidence of the point of knife failure since the medieval period to the present day.

    How many knife makers, metalurgists and material scientists are knife makers and vice versa and how many of them are experts in HEMA and providing forensic evidence of edge weapon attacks to the courts?
     
  10. superpog

    superpog Basic Member Basic Member

    49
    Nov 9, 2019
    Composite hardness means it will bend instead of break in certain situation? I understand that can be a good property as a broken knife is pretty hard to use.
    But I always have a doubt, if applying same amount of force, one knife bend and the other doesn't bend nor broke, which is considered stronger? And of course, if the force increases, the second one may eventually break, but the first one won't. I guess it will eventually come back to the real world cases to judge.

    I think I agree that in most cases we don't need the knife to be that strong. And I always put $8 mora companion in my car as I believe it is enough around/in the city. And I don't have to worry about someone break the car window and stole it, as it's just $8...
     
    Napoléon Napoli likes this.
  11. Houlahound

    Houlahound

    389
    Aug 2, 2017
    I do own some hand tools that I literally keep locked in velvet lined cases when not in use. They will be handed down to my family when I die.

    The vast majority of hand tools I own are completely disposable including most of my knives and even electrical equipment like cordless drills, many kitchen appliances etc. I use several Mora knives and throw 2 on the floor of my truck, one in the back, a few in the house, others in the shed.... They get used and abused a lot. Would I trade them for one $1000 Full tang, super steel, ultra high tech material knife no way.
     
  12. superpog

    superpog Basic Member Basic Member

    49
    Nov 9, 2019
    I think I just need one dream survival knife that I am comfortable carrying for all my hunting and fishing trips, so I wouldn't mind spend several hundreds on it, but it has to prove to be worthy.
    It has to be super stainless (I am a paranoid on stainless), super tough, fairly easy to sharpen, hold edge ok. So maybe one has all 1095 benefits plus super stainless. And does it exist? I am waiting... All sandvik stainless steels seems to super tough, but for some reason they are not popular by survival knives so I guess they have some shortcomings? I am recently eyeing on LC200N, but only a few fixed knife has it.

    For a stainless paranoid, it is a pain to see survival knives stuck on those a-century-old non-stainless steels...
     
  13. GB940Rookie

    GB940Rookie Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 19, 2016
    My current fixed blades are full tang. I believe them to be stronger.
    My only fixed blade for 25+ years was a USMC bought around 1980. Hammered with it, pried with it, dug holes with it and skinned everything I could catch. I gifted to my nephew 10 years ago and it is still his go to fixed blade.

    Sooooo............yeah
     
  14. PirateSeulb

    PirateSeulb Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 6, 2017
    Ok lets not even take history into account and see where most blades suffer damage is it from the end that is used or from the area used to handle the blade. You am willing to bet that even into modern times more blade damage occurs on the blade than on the tang. The reason isn't because of tang design but simple logic that the working area is more likely to suffer damage. You also add into it that tips are often the thinnest portion thus likely structurally weaker it would make more sense for it to suffer before the tang. I also believe I recall a piece of physics, or some science along those lines, that in a rigid structure the extreme ends, which would be tang or tip in the case of a blade, are the areas of the greatest concentration of the force. That is probably poor wording but hopefully can paint the right picture to show that the conclusion of a tapered tang is stronger from historical evidence of where blades broken in the past is clearly a flawed conclusion.
     
  15. Houlahound

    Houlahound

    389
    Aug 2, 2017
    Nobody has made that conclusion.
     
  16. JParanee

    JParanee Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 23, 2006

    I’m just the opposite

    I wont buy a knife with a full tang that is not tapered or a stick tang
     
    herisson and evilgreg like this.
  17. Dogdrawz

    Dogdrawz Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 15, 2016
    [​IMG]
     
  18. HappyDaddy

    HappyDaddy Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 21, 2013
    As long as it passes the spine-whack test, I'm good either way.:rolleyes:
     
    danbot likes this.
  19. danbot

    danbot Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 31, 2009
    Love a full tapered tang! Best of both worlds. It has strength and balance. A stick tang is probably the weakest but can be strengthened with a solid design using tough materials. I don't see where all the paranoia is coming from. What the hell are these people doing with a well designed and constructed knife to break the tang?! :confused:
    When it comes to real combat with a sword, well, all bets are off. Crack propigation with continued shock stresses= inevitable failure.
     
  20. eveled

    eveled Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 11, 2016
    What about files? Or screw drivers? Stick tangs can be plenty strong and full tangs can break.
     

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