Hawk newbie question - be gentle

RokJok

RokJok

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2000
Messages
3,609
I'm interested in combining a tomahawk (probably ATC Next Generation Ranger Spike hawk or tactical grade Vietnam hawk) with one of the bigger Busse combat grade knives, most likely a Steel Heart.

It strikes me that these two tools would go a long way as foundation pieces for a versatile kit that would stand you in good stead in a wide range of situations. The knife would cover all the usual cutting chores, food prep, limbing for shelter construction, poking & lighter levering, moderate chopping/hammering/smashing, and H2H combat. The hawk would come into play for more rigorous entry or intrusion work, heavier prying & levering, more serious chopping/hammering/smashing of thicker trees & materials, and H2H combat. Special thanks to Robert Humelbaugh at Survival Sheath Systems for alerting me to the potential that a hawk still offers in today's world.

Do any of you out there currently carry a hawk & blade combination? If so, can you offer any recommendations or tips on what to look for (and look out for) in the hawk, and when/where/how do you find the tools useful (especially non-intuitive uses)?

For ATC in particular, since I'm unfamiliar with how strong hawks really are, what's the warranty coverage if someone breaks the handle or the point of the hawk off while trying to pry open metal doors or some other such activity? Is the failure point of the hawk handle or point beyond achieving under human power?

(edited to add) Found the warranty page on ATC site. The head is covered for life, but handles not so much.

Many thanks in advance,
Greg
 
I have a question! Why is everyone so interested in breaking and entering? Are the “Masterlock Smash” and the “door-pry” just 2 extremely talked about tests? Don’t get me wrong, I love hearing how much abuse these hawks can take, and what people do with them, but I am starting to see a definite trend here, and that trend seems to be getting into places we probable shouldn’t be in the first place. If a person is locked out of their own home or garage and need to get in, I would imagine that the person could take the door with one of ATC’s Hawks. I think breaking one of your own windows and entering would be a much smarter alternative than taking an expensive edged tool to a steal door or lock. If no Locksmith could be found and if all else fails, I suggest a Mossburg 500A 12 gauge with 00 buck. That will get you in! Trust me; I keep one in the Jeep.:confused: :D :confused: :D
 
rokjok

What I think you need is the next generation Ranger hawk. It's sounds to me like you plan on doing some hard work with a hawk. The NG Ranger is your hawk. The handle is something that will blow your mind. The hawk heads are perfection. As far as what you can do with the hawk look at what it was designed for. If your going to drive nails use a hammer. If your going to cut something use a knife. If your going to chop something use a hatchet, hawk, axe. Always use the right tool for the job. If your looking for something in the outdoor, H2H range that's tough and fast go for the Ng ranger or the Vietnam tactical.

The NG ranger is a little bit heaver than the vietnam tac. The NG weighs in at little under 22 ounces the vietnam tac a little over 16 ounces. Both are top of the line no nonsense made to be used hawks. You will also want to check out the T3 which is just getting finished. Titanium hawk head, acetal handle, and a surprise in the handle. Very light weight and fast! The ultimate fighting hawk. The weight of the T3 is around 11 ounces.

If you think the hawks are something else the people that make them are even better.ATC gets the customer service of the millenium award.

As far as hard use or will it break if I do this? Is something you should get out of your head. I was present when a samuria sword blade was broken. A sharpened peace of steel flying through the air out of control. Not good! Ask nuke about a tomahawk flying between his legs. Most of ATC hawks have a spike on the other end. If stupid use of a hawks leads to a breaking point. Suffer the consequences. They may lead you to the hospital with a tomahawk stuck anywhere.

Anything from ATC is top notch stuff. The hawk you choose is up to you. Go to the ATC web sight for more info on construction of the hawks and warranty. I also suggest a lanyard. Remember use it don't abuse it.
 
running bear, have you ever had the chance to play with an NG Ranger?

As far as advice on a hawk/knife combo.... to each his own.
Everyone will prefer something different. You will probably have to feel
around for the right stuff. I know for sure when my NG Hawk gets
here, it will replace the VN Tac you see in the picture below.

The VN Tac is extremely durable... I have pried thick old rusty
staples deep out of trees, thrown the Shtuff out of it, used it to
chop a number of 3" + thick tree branches, kill a coyote, climb a
tree (put my full weight on the head/handle junction hanging from a tree)
and a number of other things. Head is as secure as ever! I use the Busse #9
to chop smaller branches, pry, throw, cut bags of alfalfa, cut straps off me
double time in a rather troubling experience, cut little things, chop through ropes
and many other things. It is still sharp as can be after all that. However, My VN
Tac is still my ultimate tool and goes well with the #9... the NG Ranger
will go even better with it!!!

<Center><img src="http://rob.bandsite.net/ba.jpg"></center>
 
Originally posted by maximus6
I have a question! Why is everyone so interested in breaking and entering? Are the “Masterlock Smash” and the “door-pry” just 2 extremely talked about tests? ... I am starting to see a definite trend here, and that trend seems to be getting into places we probable shouldn’t be in the first place.
Click to expand...
Maximus6, I'm actually more concerned with breaking and EXITING in case I need to hack or pry my way out of a bad situation. Here in western Washington state we occasionally get earthquakes which, since I got here about 12 year ago, haven't collapsed any buildings around me yet. However, I figure a hawk + Busse combo would be handy tools toward working my way out of that scenario. I suppose I could alternatively invest in a camping type hatchet & Hooligan bar to achieve evacuation from a downed building. But a hawk is lighter than the Hooligan + hatchet and I suspect it will fill most of the necessary evac roles.

Running Bear & BFH, thanks for the comments on the VN tac & NG Ranger. I hadn't thought of using a hawk as a climbing aid, but why not? I really like the NG Rangers edge shape over the VN's more straight edge. But that pricetag is daunting compared to the VN model. (Like a Busseholic can be justified in whining about price. ;) ) As for ATC customer service, I dealt with Andy back when he dealt in Busse knives. I maintain extremely high regard for the track record he built in customer service as the "go to guy" for Busses at that time. If Andy's involved, I'm willing to bet that it's either right the first time or will be made right pronto!!

Any chance of upgrading a Rogers' Rangers Field Grade Spike Tomahawk with an Acetal handle, since I like the look of that model as well??

Thx again guys,
- Greg -
 
I do not think the RR Spike can be upgraded to an Acetal handle... Andy explains in this thread:

<a href="http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184431">Next Gen. Acetal on Orig. Ranger Tomahawk</a>

The VN Tac is great and I once thought the curved edge of the NG Ranger seemed a lot nicer than the VN Tac... Not True. I love the VN Tac. It is simply... amazing.
 
RokJok:

Personally, I am going with the Next Gen Ranger Hawk. Not necessarily for its good looks, although it is purdy :p , but more so for its toughness. I mean -- 01 TOOL STEEL !!! This steel is unbelieveably robust. Mad Dog Knives (now MD Enterprises) conducted some tests on their 01 steel bladed ATAKs. They wedged the thing in between two 2x4s and did pullups with it. Then they hack-hack-hacked thru a bunch of 2x4s. Moving on, they cut thru some steel cables and thwacked thru some 2" hemp rope. Then they sat down and shaved with the thing !! Now I don't own an ATAK knife- I'm not a collector and the price doesn't justify itself to me. But it's enough to convince me that it's the kind of steel I want in MY tomahawk.

As far as the Busse knife goes, it better be able to give me a b... back-massage for $695...uh maybe that's not a good analogy, pain-wise but you get the picture. I carry a Newt Livesay RTAK blade. For $150., you still get a custom and it's one bad bad knife.

...kj4dx creeps back into his hide, waiting for Andy to dole out the golden tracking number for the NG Ranger hawk...
 
As far as knives go... nothin beats a Busse, kj4dx.... I got my Basic #9 for $225, came with a kydex sheath w/ leg straps too.

So Andy... how about that INFI hawk?! hehe :D

RokJok... I don't think you needed to ask any hawk/knife combo questions... you are on the perfect track!!! I mean an ATC NG Ranger or VN Tactical and a Steel Heart! In my opinion it would be almost impossible to find a better combo than that.

Get the NG Ranger hawk... I know it looks expensive, but it is amazing. AMAZING. I love Busses but my ATC hawks beat them...
ATC even made some small improvements on the design this batch incliding a wider cutting bevel for better sticking and biting :mad:
 
blueflinthawk you have alot to learn. That big knife is a waste of money. The blade is twice the length of the handle. Grab a knife with a 5 inch handle six inch blade and be surprised. I used to carry one of those BIG cold steel voyager knives. I ran into a ranger in a archery shop. He asked why I was carrying a knife with a blade so big. I took his advice bought a benchmade folder and the cold steel knife sits in my closet.

Go hunting and gut a deer with that big knife and when it slips out and sticks in your leg tell us how many stiches you have. If you live. What I don't like to hear is stupid people doing stupid things with guns, bows, knives and yes tomahawks. I don't care what you do with your hawk that goes for everbody. Just don't ruin it for every body else. If you don't know what I'm getting at watch the news.
 
Let's allow for the open exchange for ideas men...we are STILL part of a club, though the name has changed to the FILLED ORDER CLUB!!! ;)
 
I have many knives... some with 3" blades all the way up to 12" blades. I use them all.

Is there something WRONG with a big knife? I can do a lot more with it than a smaller knife and find I use a bigger knife more often... which is WHY I started carrying it. If I need a smaller knife for a different job I always have my Gerber folder with me. Don't tell me I've a lot to learn... you have no idea :D

I know exactly what I am doing. You can't do a lot of the stuff I do with a smaller knife. Don't you dare go dissin' the Busse Basic #9... not cool at all.

Even though I have already used my Busse Basic #9 to clean out some animals.... it isn't MADE for that. There isn't one knife that is perfect for EVERYTHING, is there?

Try to chop some kindling with a 5" blade.
 
I'm not (dissin) the busse knife I'm saying it's TOO LONG OF A BLADE! You might want to turn that knife cutting edge out. See the picture you posted. What would happen if someone hit the back of your knife blade? I'll give you a clue. Lots of stiches. If your lucky.
 
I see.... so the millions of people who buy knives with a 9" blade are all idiots? You're telling them that they are wrong?

Also... the blade is NOT twice as long as the handle.
So if I had had a 5" blade in the pic and someone hit the back of the blade I would be perfectly fine? I think I would have about the same amount of damage... If someone pushed the blade towards me... but they didn't. You can say IF about ANYTHING. I have had that knife for months and other knives just as big for years and NEVER have had any stitches and have used those knives a lot.

I think it is close minded of you to say a knife with a 9" blade is too big and that's that. Everyone has their prefs... and I'm not the kind of guy who compares COLD STEEL to Busse or the kind of guy who goes and buys a smaller knife just cause some guy I don't even know tells me the blade on my #9 is too big. Different knives for different chores. A smaller blade could NOT do a lot of the things I use my Basic #9 for. Furthermore, I have a lot of BIG and SMALL knives and have used them for years... and no stitches.

I get a LOT of good use out of that knife and it does things my 5" blades just can't do. Who are you to tell me I have a lot to learn? And that I wasted my money? Saying I wasted my money on that knife is a direct diss to the Busse Basic #9. 99% of the guys I talk to on BF would disagree with you wholeheartedly.
 
I'm talking about the cutting edge of your knife facing you! This thread has turned into something other than opinions on tomahawks. It needs to stop. It's going nowhere. Sorry to all who wasted their time reading it.
 
LOL this is all about the grip I'm holding the knife in? Ridiculous.

I also think this thread turned into something it shouldn't have... but I do respond when someone tells me I have a lot to learn, I wasted money on the best knife I have and has never even used one.

Sorry to everyone, I wish this could have had a better venue... but it wasn't my choice.
 
AND I SUPPOSE THIS IS ALL MY FAULT !!!!!!!!!!!

Just kiddin -- c'mon guys. You're breakin my heart. Stop it.
 
That's it - hand over your hawks and go to your rooms! And no knives in there to play with either! ;)

Whatever your choices, just be able to use them to protect yourself or whatever you need them to do when you need them to do it.

My Busse was the first "real" knife I ever bought and I love it. The main reason I fell in love with the knife was because of the weight. I like a heavy knife, something I can really feel in my hands and swing with. Same with my handguns. I balked for years at the composite materials instead of steel because they took all the weight out of the gun but I'm learning to live with it.

There's nothing like have a good hawk and a good knife. So whichever combination you choose - love it!
 
I wholeheartedly concur! big hawk, small hawk, big knife, small knife... don't matter!

If I may ask... what was your first Busse, Suzanne?
 
My first was a Police Recruit which they don't make anymore.

I just recently got a set of Timberline Kelly Worden's Wartac in a custom shoulder rig made by Rob from Survival Sheath Systems. It's Awesome! And I just got the Talonite Talon and Mini-Talon so I am softening to the composites and lighter knives. The Talon is a small knife but man is it sharp!

The Vietnam Tactical with a Gerber Applegate/Fairborn Combat Folder in a dual shoulder rig would be an awesome combination!

Again, anything with a hawk is awesome. :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top