Hawk newbie question - be gentle

Been lurking around for a couple of weeks.

I have the Swamp Rat Camp Tramp and just went camping with it. I am going to pair it with an ATC Next Gen Hawk.

I would suggest that you stick to the Steel Heart and avoid the longer knife. The Camp Tramp is about the same length as the steel heart and it is still small enough to be unobtrusive. I suspect that the larger 9.5" knives will negate the need for the hawk.

You don't want two huge tools hanging off your belt.
 
BFH,

I have found this thread pretty interesting. I have been debating on pairing a knife with my (soon to be arriving) VT as part of my flying survival gear. Heaven forbid I end up on the ground in Afghanistan, but I want to have all my bases covered. What knife would you guys recommend for an aircrew member to pack away that is lightweight and will cover the duties a VT isn't suited for? I am thinking purely for a combat survival situation. Thanks.
 
I guess I am a little Busse obsessed but since I tried my first Busse I haven't been the same; as far as knives go Busse raised my standards for knives; I would go with a small-medium sized Busse with a VT (a Satin Jack sounds real good). As long as you keep your VT sharp it will handle most anything a knife could do but I would definitely carry a knife like the good ole Satin Jack with me at all times if I were in any military situation. I have been using my VN Tac a lot and since I got it nothing has changed; it is as good as ever! The handle is perfectly secure and the hawk is perfect.
 
What's gotten into everyone? Someone banned from the ATC forum:eek:

Anyway, what Patte Gauche wrote seems to jive with my limited knowledge of the subject. Importance of each tool in order (most to least): Small knife, longarm, 'Hawk, big knife. Really good info.

rfleming: Yes! HKR looks to be an awsome blade. I really want one in D2 w/ Burgundy micarta handles. Or maybe Ironwood...


BTW, my ATC poll 'hawk is on it's way!

ANd now a riddle: Who has owned a T3 TITANIUM TACTICAL TOMAHAWK for the least amount of time? Oh...trick question;) It's me! I was shipped one in error by a dealer and charged:eek: :eek: :eek: Oh well, I've been credited and it will be winging it's way back to the dealer soon:(

-SB
 
BFH, do you use your Busse #9 a lot? If so how does the finish hold up? I keep my RR spike hanging off the bedpost as an attractive alternative to a fire axe. I haven't given the knife/hawk combo much thought as a CQB system. Interesting concept. It seems to me that it would require intense and continuous training. What do you say?
 
I'm not exactly qualified to answer questions about a CQB knife/hawk combo. I have only some limited knowledge of it from my uncle who is a hawk maniac and has had lessons in this sort of thing with a guy he holds very high. However, what he teaches me I do practice and enjoy sparring with him. This thread started a while back and the reason I picked the Basic 9 with the VN Tac is because the Basic 9 was (and is) my favorite knife and the VN Tac was my favorite hawk. Nowadays (all these years later) if I were going with a CQB combo I would pick either the NG Ranger or VN Tac along with a small-medium sized knife - probably a Busse Satin Jack or a Natural Outlaw. Aside from the obvious - guns etc. the hawk knife combo in the right hands is probably the most effecective hand to hand method of fighting, not to mention very frightening for the opponent.

My Busse Basic 9 is holding up just as well as my VN Tac; which is very damn good. M-INFI and INFI stays very sharp through a LOT of use and seems about indestructible. This thing is can chop a 2x4 in a snap. By now the black finish isn't exactly what it use to be. I have put this knife through hell and the finish does a pretty good job but if you abuse this knife the way it was meant to be, some of the finish will eventually scrape off. If you are interested in a Busse you should ask the guys in the Busse forum who know a lot more about it than I do your Busse questions. But I could promise you, you wouldn't regret a Busse (if you don't have one).

I, too, keep my cuztomized RR Spike close to my bed as somewhat of a display piece/emergency hawk; I mostly abuse my VN Tac and soon my NG Ranger again. I can't bring myself to mess up the perfect mirror edged finish on it or take chances with breaking the customized handle. That's what ya get when Andy is nice to ya; the princess hawk :D just kidding, Andy. I do appreciate it.
 
LtCol Dwight McLemore (USA ret) down in Yorktown VA is one gentleman who teaches the use of the hawk in conjunction with the knife. I believe he is working on a manual on the topic right now. And on 9-10 November, he will be a teaching along with Hock Hochheim in Yorktown.

Knife and Tomahawk is a uniquely American approach to CQC. The Euros have dagger and rapier, the Filipinos Espada y daga, but here in the US, we have our own way of doing things.

KM
 
I took his seminar this past May on Bowie Knife and Tomahawk Fighting and it was great. He is indeed working on a manual on the topic.
 
Now my interest is piqued on tomahawk and knife fighting techniques. I am especially curious to know how much coordination is required and if it can be taught to the average person. Of course, this is all purely for "martial arts" interest. Now I understand why ATC offers a "training" tomahawk :D!
 
Rev

Like anything hawk and knife fighting can be taught to anyone. You start with the basics and build from there. Once you have the basics down (grip, stance, and a few moves) then it all becomes technique. Most of what is taught in knife/hawk fighting is just that a technique. You have to find what you are comfortable with because if you are not comfortable with what you are being taught then it will never work for you no matter how much time you spend practicing.
 
I'd go saber grip when using a knife with a hawk.

I don't like reverse some ppl do some ppl don't, I am one who doesn't.

I would set up with a few lateral saber slashes and move my feet so that I could get the bad guy with the hawk.

Just MHO, feel free to disagree, I have done little work with hawks but a lot with knives, I think the two go together like gin and vermouth... better than you could possibly imagine
 
Z17813...Peter LaGana was also an advocate of the knife in saber grip when doing Knife and Hawk Combo work...the last time I saw him, he demonstrated at my request.

At 75 yrs. old, with the Bowie Knife in his left hand - saber grip, the Hawk in his right, he proceeded to cut and slash right in front of me in a most devestating manner...but with Pete, as with all the GREAT men who have "been in the fight", it's the will...not the skill. He reminded me of that often.
 
Thanks I think that it would have been a true experience to see a master using a hawk and a knife in combination, I sure as hell would not get in the way :eek:


In regards as to whether to go saber or reverse while using a hawk though it is one of those just because somebody who is really good does it, that does not mean their way or style is the best, just like a good hawk or a good knife in the hands of someone who isn't any good, does not beat the dude with the crappy knife and the training and willpower...

That said I stick with the good stuff cause it sure helps :D

I only found your thread in BF a week or two back but now I am hooked...

I am going to have to order a ATC hawk soon (my hawk is an old ranger hawk that a guy gave to my dad, who was the doctor that stiched him up, so while I love the thing it is really precious to me and there is no way I will learn to throw with it:rolleyes: )

It is all about what suits you...
for instance I respect hawk throwing and want to learn how it is another thing that I would not do in a 'typical' situation yeah there is no such thing as typical and I want to learn how to throw anyway... I just mean in 95% of situations I would rather have the hawk in my hand.

Some ppl I know are really into throwing knives and all of that (yeah hawks beat the hell out of knives for throwing) but I am more into keeping what I have in my hand.

edited:cause I can't spell good :rolleyes:
 
Hawk throwing is pretty much just for fun; All experts I have heard on the subject of fighting with a hawk recommend not throwing it in battle - once you throw it its gone and your opponent or opponents have it to use against you. You would have just lost your best weapon. I love throwing hawks but would not do it if I were fighting someone unless a very appropriate and rare situation occured within the fight.

I definitely agree with all your points. There is probably no superior grip that fits everyone; its all about feeling more comfortable with the grip you have on your knife and hawk, and as will always be, people are different.

All of ATC's hawks that I have are excellent (RR Spike, Vietnam Tac, NG Ranger) but my favorite is the NG Ranger. I would definitely recommend it!
 
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