Hawk newbie question - be gentle

Anything with an ATC hawk would be awesome! Hawks make anything look good. I've never handled a Police Recruit but I have seen dozens. Looks great.
 
Originally posted by kj4dx
As far as the Busse knife goes, it better be able to give me a b... back-massage for $695...uh maybe that's not a good analogy, pain-wise but you get the picture. I carry a Newt Livesay RTAK blade. For $150., you still get a custom and it's one bad bad knife.
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Hi kj4dx,

Nice recovery on stating what the Busse has to deliver to justify its pricetag. ;) The $650+ price quoted indicates that you probably saw one of the "one-of-a-kind" Busse variants. The standard combat grade Busse models cost in the $225-$350 range from the Busse shop. The Busse Basic line (now sadly discontinued :( ) went for $100-$230 from the shop. As a dedicated Busseholic, IMHO the blades are well worth their price.

I concur about the Livesay RTAK being a fine knife, well worth the $$ I paid for mine a few years back. FWIW, you can check out my comments on the RTAK, some Busses large & small, & other blades in a two-part write-up I posted to the Reviews forum here on BFC. If you search on "RTAK" in that forum you'll find it no problem.

- Greg -
 
Sorry Andy, Blueflinthawk just won't let it go! Go to the busse forum. I will remain silent no more. Fire away all you busse knives are god people! Suzanne send a REALLY BIG SHIPMENT OF MEDICATION! I'm gonna need it. :mad:
 
Don't amplify your mistake calling the #9 a waste of money, running bear... don't drag this on, please.

You called OwenM "stupid" because he said large Busses can chop small trees... I have never called ANYONE on this forum stupid... ever.
 
What about me? STOP IT ALREADY! You love your "busse" fine! My OPINION is the knives cost to much. I personally done walk around with a big knife in my pocket anymore because benchmade makes a light and strong knife. In Iowa were I live cops will detaine you for hours for having a five inch blade on you even though it's legal. The benchmade has an 3-3/4 inch blade it's called a stryker, and I don't try and chop tree's down with it.

I wouldn't go as low to compare a cold steel to a busse. The facts are cold steel talks trash about busse every other day. It's in their catalogs. They say the trail master is a much stronger knife than the busse knives. My opinion is I don't care. I like some of the busse knives but they don't make anything I can put in my pocket without taking crap from some cop.

Blueflinthawk (Rob) lets leave the knives out of the tomahawk forum and leave it at that. I'm sure every one is entertained by the debate but this is not the place for it.
 
I would like to stick to tomahawks in this forum for the most part... but as you notice this is a knife/hawk combo question. Look at the Busse forum... no one really agrees (busse 9" knives are evil like you think). Instead of insulting Busses... try them!!! They are awesome... not as awesome as ATC hawks... but they go perfect with ATC hawks.
 
BFH, You got it - I think the Busse Basic 9 is a helluva fine knife, just like the other Busses. :) I've got a beater and backup of the Niner, so my money is where my mouth is on this one. My over-weening affection for the Busse Basics is posted all over BFC, to the point that most readers' knee-jerk reaction on seeing my username is probably, "God, I hope he's not going on about how much he loves the Basics again!!" :D :D

I suspect that once I jump into hawks I'll find there are also many fine makers (as with knives) whose work I can drool over and chase until I'm totally and happily destitute. So far there's at least four hawk makers on the list, ATC included. I count myself very lucky to be around at a time when there are so many talented people producing high-quality items; whether its hawks, knives, tools, vehicles, paint, computers, food, clothes, paper, camping & hiking gear, you-name-it.

RB, I gotta respect the considerations you have for the LEO in your area. I left Minnesota (y'know, Far North Iowa ;) ) partially, if not mostly, due to the impossibility of getting a carry license there. The midwest seems to be a tough place to carry, whether blade or firearms. Given your need for a folder, I understand how Busses don't fit your situation and why the price would seem high to you.

- Greg -
 
Why don't you quit putting words in my mouth and lets let someone with real knife wisdom answer the question. The facts are I have no use for a big knife like a Basic #9. What's so cool about them? Are they balanced better than any other knife? Not from what I've seen.

The reason I post on this forum about ATC is their hawks are user friendly, made right, and are worth the price! I don't post one the Busse forum (untill to night) because I don't believe in their product. Sorry if that hurts anyones feelings. Like Dirty Harry said "opinions are like a$$holes, every body has one". Sorry your just going to have to live with the fact that I don't think busse knives are it.

I will post forums giving my opinion about ATC hawks and their products. That's why I'm here. I will not discuse this issue any more! So reply till your hearts content I really don't care. You want to take about ATC tomahawks fine. Something we both agree are one hell of a great product. Good night. Remember this is a dead issue.
 
I'm thinking a Vietnam Tactical and a Smatchet. That'd be sporting.
 
Especially an INFI Smatchet. I'll get on the horn to Jerry :D
 
I've been thinkin of an INFI hawk for a while... let me now when you get something out of Andy and Jerry :D

However, ATC's hawks are such good quality an INFI hawk isn't badly needed at all.... they kick some @$$.... but one can dream.
 
Running Bear is no longer a member here (and not just because of this thread).
 
I hope I am not intruding, or making things worse in any way. But, I offer my comments as this is a knife and knife related chat site!

Most of the things I have seen running bear post have been great. It has only been this thread, and those related, which have been disturbing. It seems that Running Bear's comments have been out of character. Whether I am right or wrong in my observation, it is too bad that action had to be taken. Any time our community loses a member , we all lose out. But, my trust is in the moderators and their abilities to judge in these matters. The subject of hawk and knife is VERY interesting, and I hope we can discuss it again sometime.

Have a great Sunday, everyone.
 
Thanks for your remarks here Crayola and all.

Running Bear has certainly been a contributor whose recent conduct was indeed, a bit out of character.

Our moderators have to make tough calls every day for the benefit of all, and I support their decision on this one 100%.

I must admit that it was upsetting to see this go down with Running Bear, because to date, he has been nothing but enthusiastic and harmonious in nearly all of his communications with all here.

We all have bad days and for what it is worth, I believe Runnning Bear probably does not like being banned from BladeForums...nobody does. I expect he will learn from this, as most folks do, and come back to the Forums in good time.

I would like to thank BlueFlintHawk for his restraint so that this matter could be diffused reasonably quickly, without a full-blown flame war, marked by exchange after exchange.

NOW...

I would indeed like to see the discussion of knife/hawk combinations continue and will start it off again myself...in a CQB sense.

At my last visit with Peter LaGana, when discussing the merits of the reverse grip knife and Hawk combination, surprisingly, he TOTALLY threw me under the bus when I demonstrated a posture with the reverse grip knife.

He GREATLY prefers SABRE grip Knife and Hawk...because he is ALL about, the SLASH! When he took the Ka-Bar and Vietnam from my hand, he was slashing in two-different directions with SABRE grip knife and Hawk and demonstrated some of the directional movement merits of SABRE grip knife over reverse.

Comments anyone??? :D Let's get back to business.
 
In my opinion anything Peter says about this subject is worth quite a lot!!! Everyone has their prefs... but this is definitely something to be taken quite seriously. From a couple lessons I've had I prefer the reverse grip... however, that could easily change with time and real experience/further instruction.

Was that Peter's KaBar or yours, Andy? :D
 
Hey Andy,

Because of my close familiarity to several of the ATC personnel and because I am in the 'throwing' publication business, I do not make a habit of posting. But because I am a self-trained, participating, and researched expert on the subject of historical use of hawks and knives I though it might be useful if not interesting to submit the following historical observations from the 1700's time period.

1. Both Native Americans and wilderness pioneers of the time period heavily depended on the tools of survival of which they could carry on their person (a very important fact here).

2. It was important to ONLY carry the minimum weight necessary. These tools were all handmade at this time and not so very easy or cheap to come by. It is correct to say that not all, if most, did not have a full possession of all the niceities that a lay-person would consider to be necessary.

3. The rifle was the most desired weapon but was not possessed by a large number of wilderness pioneers. It was also a very impracticle weapon as it only had a 3 shot per minute rate in the very best hands. What do you choose and use during the other 19 seconds between shots?

4. If you had a firearm, you needed a small knife (2 inch blade) for cutting patches used in loading. THIS was the most important knife you carried. No patch knife, no shooting.

5. If you could not obtain firearms and you were serious about your survival, then the most effective utility and fighting tool was the tomahawk. Firewood, skinning and quartering, hand-to-hand combat, and just about all other chores were handled with the one tool. A knife was secondary in necessity to the hawk.

6. If you were to carry a firearm and accoutrements, food, bedding, tomahawk, knife and whatever, you would most likely choose a knife and hawk of a smaller size because of weight, say around a 5 inch blade or so for the knife.

7. With most combatant pioneers carrying a hawk (these were long handled versions of 18 to 24+ inches) even a long bladed knife would not allow reach to an effective cutting zone.

8. As a side note, these pioneers only carried one of everything and would definitely not throw it away when they most needed it even if they were accomplished throwers.

What is the appropriate knife/hawk combo, well the 'real experts' are dead and gone but they chose smaller and lighter, your choice depends on what your chore at hand is.

Hope this may be useful.
 
Saber makes sense when you think about the ranges involved. TO use a hawk efficiently/effectively, you're gonna have what, 18+ inches between you and the bad guy? A reverse grip knife is really for close range, but your hawk isn't gonna let you get in too close, if you use it "properly".

Another thought that just popped into my head is that a saber gripped blade micht complement a hawk more than a reverse grip. You know, if the bad guy gets in too close you can slash and use foot work to SET UP a powerful hawk blow. If you are close enough to be doing reverse grip knife fighting, this may not complement your hawk all that much.

These are just meanderings of my brain on a SUnday afternoon, and really should be checked out on a mat.
 
Originally posted by Crayola
Saber makes sense when you think about the ranges involved. TO use a hawk efficiently/effectively, you're gonna have what, 18+ inches between you and the bad guy? A reverse grip knife is really for close range, but your hawk isn't gonna let you get in too close, if you use it "properly".
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If you use the hawk to create an entry, and close, then you're all positioned to follow up with the reverse grip. Hawk+reverse grip let you easily flow between ranges, seems to me.

Hawk+sabre allow for interesting combos too.

I suppose it all depends on your game.
 
I haven't seen much activity on this thread in a LONG while so I thought I would pipe in:

After a lot of research on what hawk/knife combo would excel in moslty a cqcb role with a dash of utility I have decided that the next gen. vietnam tactical coupled with a livesay HKR in the off hand utlizing a sabre grip would be a devestating combo!

For those of you unfamiliar with Newt Livesay or his products you should at least check them out, while thay may not be for you they are well made and affordable, abd Newt is a great guy to talk to.

I had originally considered a busse#9 or a swamp rat battle rat but I ended up ruling them out, not because they were not good enough, on the contrary they seem to be some of the MOST solid knives out there, but because I did not believe the tip geometry lended it self for the above stated mission "moslty a cqcb role with a dash of utility."

As far as carry goes I am not looking any further than Robert Humelbaugh's (Survival Sheaths) dual shoulder sheaths...what a great product.

Let me know what you think, comments or criticzims appreciated!

-Rob
 
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