Horizontal Grinder Building - Thinking it through...

Brock Cutlery

Brock Cutlery

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Jan 10, 2015
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This is something I have wanted to do for some time and it is time to start designing. So I am throwing it out for thoughts and discussion.
I do not think I am going to do the build myself as I just don't have the machine shop and experience to do it justice. Brett has agreed in theory to build this, assuming the design is good.

So there are several horizontal (H) grinders out there, and all seem pretty good. But they don't have all the options I would want necessarily.

Probably the best but fairly pricey ready to order H-grinder out there is this one.


This thing looks pretty darned nice, but man it's not cheap. And although it can flip vertical, it doesn't seem to be the best for that. And maybe that's just the trade-off of a H designed tool.
I don't know that I really appreciate the swivel mount either. They kept to size to a minimum and that seems like a good idea in our ever more cluttered shops. Seems VERY well made and one can appreciate that quality.

The next one is the AMK, a far more reasonable option as far as price. Obviously there are trade-offs as compared to the Hardcore at that price point. But this is a very reasonable basic H Grinder.


The AMK work rest options are very simple and effective and that is just good design.
It is basically a vertical grinder laid down and built on a plate. Again simple and effective. The footprint is a bit larger. That seems unnecessary.

Then there is the John LeBlanc H Grinder.
HPIM0321.JPG
This is one of the early H grinders and a pretty good basic design.
I don't really care for what I call the high motor mount. It would be better under the plate and out of the way, but that might complicate mounting the grinder.

All of the long platens seem so basic as to be ineffective. I would love to have one of Nathan's long radius end platens on there and the ability to drop the belt off the wheel on the radius end for lengthwise grinding. That is a big deal for me.
One cool small wheel option I found was this carousel. Sure, they just added a node to the standard small wheel setup, but it's a bit brilliant I think.
RM48-belt-grinder-639.jpg


Generally I'd like to see a small footprint H grinder, with large and small wheel options, a good platen design with simple effective work rests, and possibly be able to flip it vertical.

So what do you like or not like about any / all of these? What would you like to see?
 

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i like the yellow one because it takes up less room, and you can have more than one size wheel on it at the same time. i agree the carousel is brilliant.
 
I recently bought a lightly used Hardcore horizontal. At first I was thinking no way in hell is this thing worth the price new & maybe not even worth what I paid. But after using it a few days I tried to give the original owner more money (he's a good friend), he wouldn't accept it. The swivel top is Killer!!! Very small foot print and you can work from one side. Absolutely love this thing!

I was all set to get a KMG horizontal, as that's around what I originally wanted to spend, but damn glad I didn't.

The AMK is the one I'd buy now, if price was a factor. But the Hardcore is worth the price!
 
I don't know if I would want a small wheel carousel. There's no clearance. I would prefer a small wheel station that pulled the belt tight around the small wheel. When I think about building one, I think something like a 3" rubber drive wheel, a small wheel station, a 6" wheel and a flat platen between the 3 and 6" would be everything I'd want and need. Then like Don said, on a rotating pedestal with a quick lock so you could easily turn whichever station to face you.
 
kuraki said:
I don't know if I would want a small wheel carousel. There's no clearance. I would prefer a small wheel station that pulled the belt tight around the small wheel. When I think about building one, I think something like a 3" rubber drive wheel, a small wheel station, a 6" wheel and a flat platen between the 3 and 6" would be everything I'd want and need. Then like Don said, on a rotating pedestal with a quick lock so you could easily turn whichever station to face you.
Click to expand...
kuraki said:
I don't know if I would want a small wheel carousel. There's no clearance. I would prefer a small wheel station that pulled the belt tight around the small wheel. When I think about building one, I think something like a 3" rubber drive wheel, a small wheel station, a 6" wheel and a flat platen between the 3 and 6" would be everything I'd want and need. Then like Don said, on a rotating pedestal with a quick lock so you could easily turn whichever station to face you.
Click to expand...
Yes , it is better that way but in that case you must adjust flat plate behind edge and flat plate rest every time you change size of small wheel ...........
 
Here is a Polar Bear Forge grinder that I made horizontal. It now stays horizontal with a Travis Weurtz surface grinder attachment. Larry

aa7Xcekl.jpg
 
kuraki said:
I don't know if I would want a small wheel carousel. There's no clearance. I would prefer a small wheel station that pulled the belt tight around the small wheel. When I think about building one, I think something like a 3" rubber drive wheel, a small wheel station, a 6" wheel and a flat platen between the 3 and 6" would be everything I'd want and need. Then like Don said, on a rotating pedestal with a quick lock so you could easily turn whichever station to face you.
Click to expand...

Good ideas all. I think I would opt for a 4-5 inch rubber drive wheel that could be used. A 3 inch / 2 inch wheel flip combo, and the small wheel. For the carousel I think if it was more of a star shape with longer extrusions it would work well. Why do you need the belt pulled tight around the small wheel? I am thinking anything less than 45 deg would suffice and that should be easy.
Then of course the long platen.
 
I was thinking abut building a horizontal grinder. The most difficult part to build on it would seem to be the tensioning and tracking system. So I thought about just buying Beaumont’s EF-48 tensioning setup. Then everything else would be easy.

https://beaumontmetalworks.com/product/ef-48-tension-and-tracking-assembly/


But then I waffle back to the idea of just making a flip plate for my KMG and saving the money.
 
I don t think that making KGM one for all is saving money .......... in my real job I make more money if I finish job FASTER and for that I need right tool for every operation...I can t afford to losing time with open/close ONE french wrench..............
 
Brock Cutlery said:
What particular features do you want to see?
Click to expand...

Not fully sure, but for one would be the small wheel attachment. I don't see an easy way to change the small wheels out, and I'd want some way to make the turn around the small wheel smaller. As Kurika says, gotta get the belt out of the way or it WILL be hitting where you don't want it to.

If you're planning to make a few knives a week, you WANT a full time horizontal grinder. You loose too much time switching between all the attachments. I only use one grinder and do see a real need for multi-grinders, especially for full time knife maker. Full time - at least 3 or 4 dedicated grinders.

Ken H>
 
What do you all think of this for a basic belt path / wheel layout?
Top center wheel is tracking. Belt runs clockwise. Small wheel can range from 1/4 to 2 inch. Drive wheel (4 inch) is rubber contact wheel.


BeltLayout1.jpg
 
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Don Hanson III said:
I recently bought a lightly used Hardcore horizontal. At first I was thinking no way in hell is this thing worth the price new & maybe not even worth what I paid. But after using it a few days I tried to give the original owner more money (he's a good friend), he wouldn't accept it. The swivel top is Killer!!!
Click to expand...

Don, I really like the looks of the hardcore you've got, but do have a question. What about the wheel where the grit side of the belt runs against the wheel - does it seem to affect the belt or wheel any?
 
Ken H> said:
Don, I really like the looks of the hardcore you've got, but do have a question. What about the wheel where the grit side of the belt runs against the wheel - does it seem to affect the belt or wheel any?
Click to expand...

Can't wait to hear what Don has to say about it. It seems there might be some wear. That is why I used the 2 inch wheel for that in my drawing. It is reasonably cheap to replace. I think rubber would wear best?
 
I'm working on the base for this H grinder and worked out the belt path a bit better.
I was wondering, how many people would actually buy a grinder like this? Is this a unicorn for most makers?
I don't know if I'm going to make this, or have Brett turn some out, or what. But I'm curious if I'm one of the very few that wants one?
For me the Maximizer is too costly and not quite what I would want, the AMK is cheap enough, but still not quite what I would want.

What do you think?

14by17.jpg
 
Ken H> said:
Don, I really like the looks of the hardcore you've got, but do have a question. What about the wheel where the grit side of the belt runs against the wheel - does it seem to affect the belt or wheel any?
Click to expand...
Sorry for the late reply Ken, just saw this. That is a concern, but so far no issues. I have used this grinder a Lot in the last couple months, love it!!!
 
Brock Cutlery said:
Can't wait to hear what Don has to say about it. It seems there might be some wear. That is why I used the 2 inch wheel for that in my drawing. It is reasonably cheap to replace. I think rubber would wear best?
Click to expand...
This is an early unit, I think the new Hardcore uses a rubber wheel for the tension idler? I am not worried about it. Should have got a horizontal many years ago!
 
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