Horizontal Grinder Building - Thinking it through...

Brock, on your last dwg, is the drive wheel in the upper left corner? The tension/idler wheel the next wheel showing the arc with it?
 
Ken H> said:
Brock, on your last dwg, is the drive wheel in the upper left corner? The tension/idler wheel the next wheel showing the arc with it?
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Yes, that's right.

This is roughed out. Drive wheel shows a bolt, but that will be the motor shaft. Small wheel adapter yet to be worked out too..

15x16.jpg
 
What kind of mechanism will you be using for tracking?

I was thinking about how on my current horizontal (just my first vertical build flipped, not a very well thought out machine but got me going) I tend to wear out linear tracks in the belt when using a work rest. My work rest is not very adjustable in height. I've seen people get around this by stacking their workpiece on 123 blocks, or other spacers, or having a vertically adjustable workrest - but those that I've seen would almost all require re-squaring to to the belt face. So I was thinking about how to get a rather significant amount of belt tracking movement, to move the belt rather than the work...

Then I thought about our platen collaboration. If you took the squeeze block, rods, and platen mounting face and turned it on end, you've have a quick, vertically adjustable workrest that stayed square to the belt when moving up and down. So I'm going to incorporate something like that, since it's relatively simple to make. The squeeze block could be mounted on a pivot to allow angular movement, but when set, vertical movement wouldn't change the angle.
 
kuraki said:
What kind of mechanism will you be using for tracking?

I was thinking about how on my current horizontal (just my first vertical build flipped, not a very well thought out machine but got me going) I tend to wear out linear tracks in the belt when using a work rest. My work rest is not very adjustable in height. I've seen people get around this by stacking their workpiece on 123 blocks, or other spacers, or having a vertically adjustable workrest - but those that I've seen would almost all require re-squaring to to the belt face. So I was thinking about how to get a rather significant amount of belt tracking movement, to move the belt rather than the work...

Then I thought about our platen collaboration. If you took the squeeze block, rods, and platen mounting face and turned it on end, you've have a quick, vertically adjustable workrest that stayed square to the belt when moving up and down. So I'm going to incorporate something like that, since it's relatively simple to make. The squeeze block could be mounted on a pivot to allow angular movement, but when set, vertical movement wouldn't change the angle.
Click to expand...


Haven't worked out the tracking or rest mechanisms yet but have the ideas in mind.
You are right in that the rest should move vertically, not the belt.
The rest should move in and out, up and down, and tilt.
In and out could be a bar mount similar to a tool arm, or it could be two rods as the platen mount was made.
Vertical could be a square bar (to keep it parallel to the belt) or two rods. Might get overly complicated with the rods.
Tilt will need to be done at the bar top where it meets the work rest I think.
But there are a multitude of combination mechanisms that might be used. The goal I think for use and for build out is to keep it as simple as possible.

I'll throw up some sketches when I get there, but would love to see your ideas too John. Anyone else too....
 
Brock, why a 5" drive wheel? I wouldn't think you'd be doing much high speed grinding with a horizontal grinder? ALL my horizontal work is normally at a much slower speed, doubt I ever get to 2,000 SFPM speed when in horizontal mode. I was thinking of a 3" (or 4") drive wheel, with an 8" at one corner, another corner would have a small wheel attachment that would handle from 1/4" to 1-1/2" (or maybe even 2" wheel), then perhaps a 3" wheel at other corner. That would give a all size wheels from 1/4" to 2", 3", & 8" wheels. Tension/idler wheel would be 3" or 4" depending on what I've got.

My 2X72" flips horizontal, but it takes a bit of time to switch back 'n forth. The horizontal like you've got laid out would take care of many tool changes and save a LOTS of time.

Ken H>
 
I never move the rest on my horizontal in and out. The gap between the rest isn't critical for safety since the belt travel is with the rest (not going to pull anything down and pinch) and since I don't change tool arms there's really no need. On a dedicated horizontal, I'd want a rest at each station, already set to say 1/8 or 3/16 gap for that station. But again, I have no need to change small wheels or any wheel sizes, so that's just me. But takes 1 axis of motion out of the equation.
 
I'm not sure the tilting tool rest is all that necessary - how many different places do you need the tilting tool rest? I use a few different places, but they work pretty good on the flat platen, or disk grinder. I was thinking the tool rest would need the up 'n down adjustment, but not much else. Might be good to move in 'n out to allow room to replace belt, then move tool rest up close to belt for some grinding steps.

I don't make all that many knives/mo, but I enjoy making tools almost as much as knives {g}. I just love to make a nice tool that works good, step back and say "I made that" {g}. I just finished making a Moen grinding jig that works like a champ.
 
I am thinking the 5 inch could be a rubber contact wheel. I'm not too concerned about getting a lot of speed out of it, just wanted that size. But it could easily be a 4.
I do plan to do lengthwise blade bevel grinding on this, dropping the belt off the 3 inch corner wheel straight to the top of a long radiused end platen (Nathan's). I might have to have a second mount point for the 2 inch take-up wheel to take up the belt slack.
But agree, generally slower speeds.
 
Good thoughts on the tilting rest. I think I would want at least the flat platen rest and the small wheel rest to tilt, and maybe the 2 inch corner wheel rest.
This would be for handle work, and for starting rounding cuts on choil and spines.

If the rest will tilt, it will also need to move in and out to take up the space left on tilt.
I don't think it will be that difficult to build a good one. There are so many good designs out there already, but it's all pretty basic.
The one thing I don't like is screw tops on the top of the rest. I don't want anything on it that can hang the part up when I slide it.
 
Ken H> said:
I'm not sure the tilting tool rest is all that necessary - how many different places do you need the tilting tool rest? I use a few different places, but they work pretty good on the flat platen, or disk grinder. I was thinking the tool rest would need the up 'n down adjustment, but not much else. Might be good to move in 'n out to allow room to replace belt, then move tool rest up close to belt for some grinding steps.

I don't make all that many knives/mo, but I enjoy making tools almost as much as knives {g}. I just love to make a nice tool that works good, step back and say "I made that" {g}. I just finished making a Moen grinding jig that works like a champ.
Click to expand...

I'd like a tilting rest for a few reasons, but mostly I'm thinking that if I have a rest mount interface at each station, I make one tilting rest, and one square rest, and put whichever I need to use at whichever station.
 
Brock Cutlery said:
I do plan to do lengthwise blade bevel grinding on this, dropping the belt off the 3 inch corner wheel straight to the top of a long radiused end platen (Nathan's).
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I watched the video of Nathan doing the lengthwise blade bevel grinding - boy does that work nice to clean up bevels. I do that on my 2X72" grinder by removing the top platen wheel, and using a special long platen with a radiused end. If that could be worked into the horizontal it would be nice. I'd given it some thought, but didn't see a way to do it right off. Perhaps a long platen with a radiused end to fit right around the 1/4" small wheel grinder? so the belt would have the 1/4" wheel to roll around rather than a solid platen end?
 
Ken H> said:
I watched the video of Nathan doing the lengthwise blade bevel grinding - boy does that work nice to clean up bevels. I do that on my 2X72" grinder by removing the top platen wheel, and using a special long platen with a radiused end. If that could be worked into the horizontal it would be nice. I'd given it some thought, but didn't see a way to do it right off. Perhaps a long platen with a radiused end to fit right around the 1/4" small wheel grinder? so the belt would have the 1/4" wheel to roll around rather than a solid platen end?
Click to expand...

I keep thinking that same thing, but I don't know how smooth the grind would be because of the transition between wheel and platen.
It should be used just for cleaning up the grind I think, so slow speed just on the platen end should work. Who knows... ?
 
Yes, slow speed for sure. I tend to use an 80 grit J weight belt running around 1,000 to 1500 SFPM or so to clean up the bevels, and it really works good on plunge lines. Next would be a 320 grit J weight belt to clean up the 80 grit. It doesn't take much hand sanding to finish the blade after the 320 grit.
 
Ken H> said:
I'm not sure the tilting tool rest is all that necessary - how many different places do you need the tilting tool rest? I use a few different places, but they work pretty good on the flat platen, or disk grinder. I was thinking the tool rest would need the up 'n down adjustment, but not much else. Might be good to move in 'n out to allow room to replace belt, then move tool rest up close to belt for some grinding steps.

I don't make all that many knives/mo, but I enjoy making tools almost as much as knives {g}. I just love to make a nice tool that works good, step back and say "I made that" {g}. I just finished making a Moen grinding jig that works like a champ.
Click to expand...


Why Ken, you ALSO enjoy building tools as much as knives?? I'm shocked!! LOL! :D

I built my own horizontal using an old HF 1x30. I turned it into a 1x42, and it's hinged so it can still be used upright. Have the stock wheel and Ken H was kind enough to turn out a 1.5" wheel which slows the speeds to perfect finishing range. (Thanks Ken!) It has a small foot print and is siper light, but uses a work rest lined with plexiglass around 3/4 of the belt travel. Cost next to nothing, which is really all I care to spend on a horizontal. Perfect for me! Man I love being a DIY'er. ;)
 
I'm still in the design phase of this build. Man, it's much more complicated than you might think if you want more than a flipped vertical grinder.
Trying to keep the footprint small, and as it is, it's roughly 15 by 15 which is quite compact.
Struggling a bit with tracking and tensioning for this.
I didn't want to work this up in Fusion without getting an idea if it's viable. I'd really appreciate any thoughts y'all might have on this modification.
Tracking is just tracking, not tension. Tension system is independent, on the reverse belt wheel. Tension arm and shock is mounted under the table.
And yeah, the small wheel system is not right yet. I'll fix that.

Forgive the rough pencil sketch and thanks for having a look.

5-31-redesign1.jpg
 
I like it. I think it will work well and separating the tracking and tension will simplify things. I think a horizontal grinder is the ideal place for a tension mechanism that uses over center or a ratchet, only because I think threading a belt on will be a 2 handed operation, but other than that it does everything I would want in one.
 
kuraki said:
I like it. I think it will work well and separating the tracking and tension will simplify things. I think a horizontal grinder is the ideal place for a tension mechanism that uses over center or a ratchet, only because I think threading a belt on will be a 2 handed operation, but other than that it does everything I would want in one.
Click to expand...

I just saw an over center a week ago and like the idea, but there wasn't enough detail in the vid to see how to implement it. Have any drawings or info that might help me understand it?
Otherwise, ratchet could be good too. You make a good point on the two handed issue.
 
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