I have decided to Test a $350 Plus STRIDER

[m40]

M-40,

Is everyone who has a Strider or a Busse or whatever knife you deem overpriced a Poser ?

Jim

Nobody called you a poser Jim.

I called "Rat" a poser... not because of any knives he owns, but because he decided to go throw a temper tantrum when I questioned the quality/price ratio of Strider blades. If I think they're overpriced, it's an opinion, and that's what these forums are all about. "Rat" hasn't figured that out just yet.

 

[J85909266]

Bah, Rat's a good guy. He's just quick to jump on your case if he smells BS, and he's never gentle. You did look like a troll just trying to piss people off with your first post, and that's why you got the reaction you did. Whether or not you are being honest about your experience with machining and knife manufacturing is really quite moot, as you can't prove any of it, and you aren't really bringing anything new to the table anyway. Anybody with any common sense can tell that Striders are overpriced, and you are certainly entitled to that opinion, but to claim you know the production costs, and the way you presented your opinion was just ignorant and trollish. I don't care, either way. "Trolls", as the say, have never bothered me.

I will say that 90% of the members here have never been 1000 miles from anywhere or any of that crap you said, and they aren't posers. They are people with an interest in knives, and I have the same respect for anybody with a legitimate interest in knives, whether they be a marine, explorer, web designer, McDonald's Employee, etc. Nor do I care what they are interested in, even if it is Hibben fantasy blades, so long as they are mature, well-mannered people. They are all knives, right?

 

[Broos]

m40 you are going to make a lot of friends here.
Your friend and fellow genius engineer,
Bruce

 

[MORIMOTOM]

Uh oh, here we go again.
Watch yourself m40, when it comes to these guys your opinion will be heatedly contested.
Whatever you do, do not bring up Busse in any way that could possibly be construed in a negative fashion, or the wild dogs will attack from all directions.
Can we get back on topic here?


Just for the record, guys, I am in no way affiliated with m40 and have no personal stake in any claims he has made or will make in the future.
Any spelling mistakes may or may not occur as a direct result of lack of time to proofread my statements.

like or dont like anything, strider, busse, benchmade, emerson, whatever. but busse, specifically because you mention busse, has quite a fan base.

so if you make negative statements, you should expect those that are faithful to busse to speak up. as im sure you would defend a product you believed in when it was attacked by someone else.

if your just going to get hurt feelings when someone disagrees or proves you wrong or demands the basis of your arguments, a public forum is not the place for you. imo

 

[MORIMOTOM]

Nobody called you a poser Jim.

I called "Rat" a poser... not because of any knives he owns, but because he decided to go throw a temper tantrum when I questioned the quality/price ratio of Strider blades. If I think they're overpriced, it's an opinion, and that's what these forums are all about. "Rat" hasn't figured that out just yet.

i disagree, in my experience rat, though opinionated at times, is honest and gets fired up.

i think you are no better than you claim he is when you make statements like he plays with blades to make himself feel tough. im not sure what this means, especially in terms of the thread topic.

you want to state your opinions, but he cant state his?

 

[m40]

I don't really care when my opinion gets contested. That's called a debate, and a healthy debate is just fine with me. Debating the quality, price, and finer points of the vast offerings of the blade community is why many folks come here.

When a couple of folks can't debate with facts and then get their panties in a twist over it, this ceases to be a forum, and turns into a high school chat room. This "debate" turned into a childish name calling contest right from the start. Several times I tried to make logical points, and a few folks agreed or disagreed with logical arguments. It was "Rat" who met each with names and insults. Now, somehow, I'm guilty of wandering off topic for taking the bait? You can all just excuse the hell out of me if I'm more literate than "Rat" and managed to insult him right back without sinking to 3rd grade potty jokes.

Now I'm accused of wanting to state my opinions, "but he cant state his". I don't understand how that was interpreted from anything I've written. He's been stating his "opinions" all along, which had nothing to do with blades, and everything to do with trying to piss me off, (and nobody seems surprised). He's now decided to "block" me. A real grown up way to deal with opinions you disagree with. I'm perfectly willing to listen to his opinions when they have to do with ...ummm... blades? As for abusive and childish BS, I eventually draw a line and fire back.

PS - I haven't mentioned the name Busse even a single time. I'm not sure where that insinuation came from. I actually like Busse blades, and think they're probably well worth the asking price. I haven't had the chance to really abuse one yet, but I've examined one, and it REEKED of quality.

 

[dpimpc]

Then pay Paul Bos to heat treat them for you (add in the shipping back and forth as well, he's in Idaho, you're in California)

Mr. Bos no longer does their heat-treating I believe, but they do use the same process. Just to clarify. :thumbup:

 

[m40]

Mr. Bos no longer does their heat-treating I believe, but they do use the same process. Just to clarify. :thumbup:

I understand what goes into heat treating, and I've paid to have a few of mine done. That said, I would stipulate that the prices for this service go WAY down when you're doing large batches numbering in the hundreds (or even thousands) of blades. Typically, that doesn't make the process any less effective, just a lot less expensive.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Mr. Bos no longer does their heat-treating I believe, but they do use the same process. Just to clarify. :thumbup:

"OK guys, here is the straight scoop. When I moved up here with Buck I took all my equeptment [sic] with me. It was to [sic] much expence [sic] for strider [sic] to ship hundreds of blades up here each week, [sic] Shipping would have cost as much a heat treating. So Duane and myself went to my old commerical shop Certified Metal Craft in El Cajon and set them up with the same procedures I use. . . . Paul Bos." [11/08/06 BF General Discussion Forum].

Interesting and informative regarding the economics.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

I don't really care when my opinion gets contested. That's called a debate, and a healthy debate is just fine with me. Debating the quality, price, and finer points of the vast offerings of the blade community is why many folks come here.

When a couple of folks can't debate with facts and then get their panties in a twist over it, this ceases to be a forum, and turns into a high school chat room. This "debate" turned into a childish name calling contest right from the start. Several times I tried to make logical points, and a few folks agreed or disagreed with logical arguments. It was "Rat" who met each with names and insults. Now, somehow, I'm guilty of wandering off topic for taking the bait? You can all just excuse the hell out of me if I'm more literate than "Rat" and managed to insult him right back without sinking to 3rd grade potty jokes.

Now I'm accused of wanting to state my opinions, "but he cant state his". I don't understand how that was interpreted from anything I've written. He's been stating his "opinions" all along, which had nothing to do with blades, and everything to do with trying to piss me off, (and nobody seems surprised). He's now decided to "block" me. A real grown up way to deal with opinions you disagree with. I'm perfectly willing to listen to his opinions when they have to do with ...ummm... blades? As for abusive and childish BS, I eventually draw a line and fire back.

PS - I haven't mentioned the name Busse even a single time. I'm not sure where that insinuation came from. I actually like Busse blades, and think they're probably well worth the asking price. I haven't had the chance to really abuse one yet, but I've examined one, and it REEKED of quality.

i didnt accuse you of anything, just asked a couple questions. this post of yours indicates to me your panties are in a bunch.

i dont believe i was hostile in any way, quite the contrary.

i never said you mentioned busse, or any other manufacturer for that matter. if you will notice my post has a quote from another forum member.

if you feel the thread has become too childish, why do you still post? and trade insults with someone you feel is beneath you?

 

[BJORNN]

I say disband this thread forever and lets just wait in silence for a new one- with a link to a video.


Not to say that it will or will not prove anything, but it'll at least still be amusing for everyone.

 

[NervousXtian]

M40 never answered my question. Back up your silly claims of what a knife costs to produce. You can't, because you pulled the numbers out of your ass.

Is Strider pulling in a healthy profit on each blade? Probably. They should. But so does any other knife company that's in business. They sure as hell aren't in it to be getting poor. They aren't making blades for anywhere close to what you say they are, and that's for damn sure.

 

[Cobalt]

.

PS - I haven't mentioned the name Busse even a single time. I'm not sure where that insinuation came from. I actually like Busse blades, and think they're probably well worth the asking price. I haven't had the chance to really abuse one yet, but I've examined one, and it REEKED of quality.

No you did not, it was Liam, so no worries:thumbup:

Anyway back to Strider and cost. I am no fan of strider, but by the same token I think it's foolish to think that all the work that goes into making knife is going to be dirt cheap. Even if he uses mass production machinery, that machinery has to be paid for. There is a lot of overhead costs that need to be taken into account.

$350 for an S30V blade? Well The Becker extreme 7 retails for $300 and I am sure that there are 20 times as many beckers being mae as there are Striders, so how and why does becker get away with making a blade made of the same steel and selling for nearly as much. It does have micarta handles, but it is no doubt a mass production knife. Or was. Is that worth it.

What about Ontario's Hells Bells. It's retail is near $300 using some modified 440b steel. Ontario for gods sake?

Would I pay that much? no way. But I would not pay that much for any fixed blade made of S30V. If, however, strider made the same knife of 3v, I might take a look if I liked the design.


Anyway all this is a moot point as there will always be people who like or dislike a product. It's all a matter of opinion so in the end it does not matter.

Hell some people are willing to pay $1,000 for a hard chromed carbon steel knife....To each his own.

 

[Michelle]

As a manufacturing process engineer, I can simply look at the design and finish and it's fairly obvious how they're making them.

All the boxy straight lines make this a CNC machining dream... meaning cheap as hell and super quick to produce. As for the painted finish, it's simply Brownell's Gun-Kote, or similar epoxy-molybdenum-disulfide type paint, which helps to hide the fact that... well ... that a good finish costs you time, and thus money! All this screams "cheap and dirty". I'd be surprised if their costs exceed $10-$20 per blade.

As for the sheath's, I've seen them for sale (forget where), but it's an aftermarket source. If memory serves, they cost about $40-$50, and thus my comment that the sheath costs these folks far more than the blades to produce.

Is this "insider" info? Heck no. This is simple observation. My whole career is based on helping companies to produce their products better, cheaper and faster, so I'm sort of an expert in manufacturing practices. As such, I can categorically say that if they spend more than $20 per blade, they really need MY HELP!

Sorry if I'm bursting any bubbles here, but Strider blades are a fad, and a costly one at that. It's like buying $200 designer jeans. They're no better or tougher than any other jeans, but they have a look that's "in" or simply the right name on the tag.

- M40 -

Do you have any idea how much titanium costs these days? Or how the stripes are really done? Do you work in your professional capacity in the knife industry? Do you know how much S30V costs? Or tritium? Heat treating? Scale material? The cost of replacing belts? Hardware? How about labor? (or do you think people should give their time away for free?)

Having "opinions" is all fine and good, and of course everyone is entitled to theirs. But when you state your opinion as fact, you are heading into libel territory. I mean no disrespect to you when I say this, but You Sir, in this particular case, do not know what you are talking about.

I'm sure your intention was to bad mouth one particular knife maker with your post. What you have managed to do however is to insult many.

m1

 

[hardheart]

Do you have any idea how much titanium costs these days? Or how the stripes are really done? Do you work in your professional capacity in the knife industry? Do you know how much S30V costs? Or tritium? Heat treating? Scale material? The cost of replacing belts? Hardware? How about labor? (or do you think people should give their time away for free?)

*raises hand*

I know how much S30V, titanium, heat treating, hardware, belts, and labor cost!

about $160 for a Skirmish, online retail

What do I win?

 

[Thomas Linton]

They sure as hell aren't in it to be getting poor. They aren't making blades for anywhere close to what you say they are, and that's for damn sure.

Scources? Seriously, it would be nice if we could add more facts to what Paul Bos has already told us instead of guessing.

 

[Thomas Linton]

No you did not, it was Liam, so no worries:thumbup:

Anyway back to Strider and cost. I am no fan of strider, but by the same token I think it's foolish to think that all the work that goes into making knife is going to be dirt cheap. Even if he uses mass production machinery, that machinery has to be paid for. There is a lot of overhead costs that need to be taken into account.

A point I tried to make -- but not as well.

$350 for an S30V blade? Well The Becker extreme 7 retails for $300 and I am sure that there are 20 times as many beckers being mae as there are Striders, so how and why does becker get away with making a blade made of the same steel and selling for nearly as much. It does have micarta handles, but it is no doubt a mass production knife. Or was. Is that worth it.

What about Ontario's Hells Bells. It's retail is near $300 using some modified 440b steel. Ontario for gods sake?

Good points. But you really address "worth it" in your next.

Anyway all this is a moot point as there will always be people who like or dislike a product. It's all a matter of opinion so in the end it does not matter.

In the market, it clearly does not matter. Look at the difference in the cost of a T-shirt with the current "cool" [or "hot"] image on it vs. "last week's" best-seller selling for < $10.00 in the clearance rack.

Still, it would be interesting to know the economics.

 

[hardheart]

Labor would be the most important factor, it takes up about 70% of cost to produce an item. Materials obviously don't warrant the price, there are far too many other knives with the same ingredients list at lower prices.

I managed to grind out a simple blade from an M2 power hacksaw blade and put on some stabilized wood scales. Since I paid a retail price for the single saw blade, wood, belts, glue, and sandpaper, I probably spent about $10-12 on that knife. I'd have to charge about billion dollars to cover my labor costs if I figured my time spent on it was worth the federal minimum wage; I went so slow and am such a n00b at it.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Do you have any idea how much titanium costs these days?

I didn't know Strider used Ti in its fixed-blade knives. In any event, have you tried Google? It is a commodity.

Heat treating?

See above quote by Paul Bos. Apparently, in his expereicne, less than postage.

[qoute]Scale material?[/quote]
"Scales"?

But when you state your opinion as fact, you are heading into libel territory.

A published statement of fact that (1) is untrue and (2) is made with reckless disregard for its accuracy, or actual knowledge of its inaccracy, is actionably defamatory if (3) it demonstrably caused injury to the person or entity about whom or which it was made. In some states, no actual injury need be shown to collect at least punitive damages if the statement was inherently injurious, such as claiming that a financial advisor steals from his customers. A claim that a maker has a high margin of profit hardly falls into that category.

In any event, most makers suffer veen highly unfair criticism without "going to the law" as they are too busy making and selling knives.

I mean no disrespect to you when I say this, but You Sir, in this particular case, do not know what you are talking about.

I wish you would cite facts and their verifiable sources to show that this is the case. As it stands, just another opinion from a source of unknown expertise rergarding costs of large-scale production of a machined part.

 

[jdm61]

A point I tried to make -- but not as well.


Good points. But you really address "worth it" in your next.


In the market, it clearly does not matter. Look at the difference in the cost of a T-shirt with the current "cool" [or "hot"] image on it vs. "last week's" best-seller selling for < $10.00 in the clearance rack.

Still, it would be interesting to know the economics.

Actually, the Hell's Belle can be had for around $175. And I own one and it'snot worth it...It has typical "Bill Bagwell with a bad hangover" fit and finish. I bought it and 2 others as pattern knives.