I'm excited! Parkerizing soon. Picture results added!

Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Messages
522
I use LCW Manganese Phosphate Parkerizing Solution. It is a little spendy but works well. I owned a machine shop making AR parts and Park'ed everything. As long as you prep well you are good to go. Tried the finish on a few knives and it held up better then any other finish. Good stuff.
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
4,080
well here's my first try on my own at 30 minutes
didn't quite get the black I was hoping for.

6d216e692ad0a7f65c44d4f67dbbcdae.jpg


f2f6b180e928e3422cd56c138e65311b.jpg


also I didn't sandblast this one and I definitely will next time.
The deeper black comparison blade was sandblasted.


d0809b8ab6e9e8ca209e90ecf6689f32.jpg


would appreciate any guidance from the more experienced

thanks
 

kuraki

Fimbulvetr Knifeworks
Joined
Jun 17, 2016
Messages
4,672
Blasting is almost necessary from what I can tell when you want a solid black blade that's consistent. The increased surface area gives more room for the phosphatizing to occur.

What kind of finish did that have?

I was going to try etching a satin finished blade then parking this weekend.
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
4,080
Blasting is almost necessary from what I can tell when you want a solid black blade that's consistent. The increased surface area gives more room for the phosphatizing to occur.

What kind of finish did that have?

I was going to try etching a satin finished blade then parking this weekend.

220 belt and 320 flap sand.
Any chance I could sandblast now and retry parkerizing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
5,545
Did you try etching after grinding, before parking? I bet that will help.
I've got another two pattern weld blades being processed tonight, one is etching and will be going into park in a bit. I'll post the results of the two.
 

kuraki

Fimbulvetr Knifeworks
Joined
Jun 17, 2016
Messages
4,672
220 belt and 320 flap sand.
Any chance I could sandblast now and retry parkerizing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes it's no problem to blast and re park I've done that many times.
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
4,080
Yes it's no problem to blast and re park I've done that many times.

i might leave this one alone, but good to know the options,
what sort of hold times (in the solution) have you used? I used 30 mins on this one
 

kuraki

Fimbulvetr Knifeworks
Joined
Jun 17, 2016
Messages
4,672
Ten to fifteen has been sufficient for me. I wonder how evenly your solution was heated? My tank is horizontal on a two burner hot plate, and I have it at temp for 30 min before my part goes in.

Did you activate it with some steel wool?
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
4,080
Ten to fifteen has been sufficient for me. I wonder how evenly your solution was heated? My tank is horizontal on a two burner hot plate, and I have it at temp for 30 min before my part goes in.

Did you activate it with some steel wool?

I believe it is evenly heated and I do have it up to temperature for 15 minutes or so before hand. Yes I did activate it with steel wool. I think the sandblasting is the trick. I hadn't been advised that 20 minutes immersion was sufficient


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

kuraki

Fimbulvetr Knifeworks
Joined
Jun 17, 2016
Messages
4,672
As far as time in the solution I'm really just looking at the blade in 10-15 minutes to see what color it is, because I can get a good look at it the way my tank is laid out. I don't think there's any additional benefit to increased time submersed once you hit the color you're going for. It isn't (to my knowledge) going to build any deeper of a surface conversion past a certain point. You can pull your blade and look if you're careful to not let it dry off, which happens rather quickly at 180F, but if you just pop it out and look then drop it back in, it won't interrupt anything.
 
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
5,545
I ran two blades last night, 20 minutes apiece. They were both hand sanded to 400 grit first. Etched the pattern, then parked at 190f. They both came out nice and evenly black.
 

kuraki

Fimbulvetr Knifeworks
Joined
Jun 17, 2016
Messages
4,672
I think the etching is a critical step if not blasting, in order to get dark black. Like previously discussed (this thread or another I can't recall) about the "pre-dip" Lauer sells for getting dark black, FC probably does the same thing.

The only other thing I can think of is whether the blade was cleaned/degreased prior to dipping and if the Park solution was mixed at the proper ratio to water.
 

KnuckleDownKnives

Time to make the doughnuts..
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
1,712
The manganese phosphate coating is going to be a much harder and better wear resistant coating to the zinc coating.

The Wiki on manganese phosphate is very knowledgeable. You may get a better understanding of the processes involved here if you haven't read up on the process. This site has a good short write up as well.

I used to do thermal spay zinc coating on bridges so I understand the process quite well, but would have a hard time explaining it. Corrosion coating processes like this are quite fascinating how they work. I was working with a guy few years back developing zinc and nano powdered plastic coatings trying to prolong hull coating erosion from sand/salt erosion, barnacle growth, and one that would prevent mud from building up on canal lock doors, that was 10 times sicker than ptfe teflon.

Not trying to hijack the thread. Just interested in the discussion.
 
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
1,611
Hey Salem, any chance you can upload your pics from the last page to photobucket so the rest of us can see them as well?! :confused: :D

~Paul

My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been a few years since my last upload)
 

kuraki

Fimbulvetr Knifeworks
Joined
Jun 17, 2016
Messages
4,672
The manganese phosphate coating is going to be a much harder and better wear resistant coating to the zinc coating.

The Wiki on manganese phosphate is very knowledgeable. You may get a better understanding of the processes involved here if you haven't read up on the process. This site has a good short write up as well.

I used to do thermal spay zinc coating on bridges so I understand the process quite well, but would have a hard time explaining it. Corrosion coating processes like this are quite fascinating how they work. I was working with a guy few years back developing zinc and nano powdered plastic coatings trying to prolong hull coating erosion from sand/salt erosion, barnacle growth, and one that would prevent mud from building up on canal lock doors, that was 10 times sicker than ptfe teflon.

Not trying to hijack the thread. Just interested in the discussion.

It is interesting. We're looking at replacing iron phosphate and zinc phosphate with some type of nano coating that ends up putting a layer of zirconium on our parts. All we're waiting for is Army acceptance of it as a paint prep, since we're a sub-sub defense contractor. Should allow us to paint aluminum or steel or just about anything else with the same pre-wash.
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
4,080
Decided to sandblast and redo. Top one is the sandblasted redo I just competed

be718af5d052adf25c03c257a760c34c.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
5,545
Of course, Nick!
Paul, those pics are from Photobucket, and so are these. Try using a different browser? Here's some pics of black blades from last night:

14682077_1154783881264353_1152305965565180513_o_zpsjip8rsgq.jpg


14711159_1154784061264335_8192852576502555469_o_zpsbtxpdout.jpg


And from later last night, and this morning, cleaned up:

14706992_1154371944638880_6209798258684138567_o_zpsatbcsduc.jpg


14633266_1154789224597152_4211677114188681018_o_zpsucmows8q.jpg



I reached out to Adam DesRosiers, who is kind enough to share advice with me now and then, and he told me a couple things he learned from Rodrigo Sfreddo that are quite helpful.

Etch deep, and after depth is achieved, sand the surface of the highs shiny with 2000-2500 paper before park. The polish on the high layers helps the park not stick to them or pit them, which as I can attest, gives a MUCH better result.

The other thing, wet sand after the parkerizing, at least until the end. This saves a lot of paper and floats the debris away from the sanding zone, having less of an effect of washing out the low layers. Again, I tried this, and it super helps.

I'm going to 2500 paper briefly after etch, light all over while wet with water, then right into the park at 190f. Twenty minutes, and it's done fizzing. Nail polish on everything I don't want etched or parked. Then air dry out of park, let cool. Acetone strip any areas with nail polish masking. Start in finish sanding with water and 1200 paper. Do the very last sanding dry with 1200. Buff lightly along with handle. Heat lightly over hot plate and rub in coconut oil (kitchen knives, turbine oil for non-food prep.)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
1,611
Oh hey, there they are! I guess I just should have refreshed the page before assuming it was all your fault, sorry about that :eek: ;) lol

And... WOW! Those are stunning, Salem! :eek:

You got some neat tricks going on there with the different patterns in your integral bolsters. I'm gonna guess that you forge welded the bolsters to the blade on the knife in the bottom pic?

That keyhole though, it's messing with my head.. :confused: ...in a good way though! :D I'm curious to hear what you did there too.

Great blades, great tips, great thread!

I see you mentioned using nail polish as a resist, I naturally just thought you were referring to covering your logo and the shoulders for hidden tangs etc. But from seeing your pictures, do you also paint it on the wood/handles to protect them? I'm curious what that would be like trying to clean it off simply using acetone, it just seems like it would stain the wood a bit, unless you're using clear nail polish. Does it have to do with the fact that you're only using either stabilized or very dense & oily woods when doing that which makes it clean off so nicely?

Thanks for sharing! :thumbup:

~Paul

My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been a few years since my last upload)
 
Last edited:
Top