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Improvised Weapons - Whadda Ya Do?

Bae's scenario: Best I can think is to immediately alert whatever authorities patrol those waters. Barricade selves (preferably with radio) into most secure area possible. Put as much material between selves and BGs, since they are armed.

SM42's scenario: 15 ft can be closed in around a second. I don't ride busses (once in my life). But if I did I would probably have a knife and OC on me. I would also probably have a backpack. A full backpack worn over the chest should be somewhat effective as armor. I do not know if it would be beneficial to spray the front of the bus with the OC or rush with my knife. The driver also has to keep his attention somewhat on driving the bus. He cannot just turn, stand and fire. At best he could drive with one hand and shoot towards the back of the bus with the other. I would probably lean away from using the OC and here is why. If he cannot see he will probably crash that bus. This puts the people on the bus at a greater risk than necessary. Also, he might start shooting wildly if sprayed putting the passengers again at risk. I would dploy my knife and rush the driver's seat. Pretty sure I would be able to close before he could turn and fire. Even if the gun is in his hand it still takes a while to notice what I am doing, have that info register, and decide what to do, and do it. Use the knife against whatever targets are readily availible and most effective. Romover him as quickly from the seat as possible and jam on the brakes. Turn my attention back to BG and continue to take appropriate measures.

Calling the cops on cell phone is also an idea. Honestly, I don't know if it would be smart to wait for the cops to handle the situation or not. Maybe he uses the bus to crash into something before the cops get there. Maybe he starts shooting when he sees cops. Maybe he shoots himself when he sees cops. The possibilities of complications due to waiting for the cops to act seems pretty high to me. What do you guys think?
 
Waterborne Scenario:

1. As I'm sailing my normal personal gear includes having a good, stout fixed blade on my hip just because I'm working around lines and such and one never knows when you'll need a sharp edge.

2. I use my binos, also a necessary item of equipment when on the water, to quickly inspect and observe the boats / men. What markings, if any, are present on the boats? What are the actions of the men? How are they dressed (uniforms? pirate costumes?).

3. If they begin to approach my boat, how are they doing so? Attack formation and speed? Slowly and carefully? Are they attempting to hail me? If so, do I understand their intentions? At this time I'm running through my list of options and alternatives.

4. Do they just haul on by and wave (Big Smile...Big Smile)?

5. From this point I improvise, adapt, and overcome (if necessary). Or, if the gig is just security or waterborne law enforcement out doing their jobs, I do what is required and necessary.

6. If bad guys with bad intentions (and armed) and given the stated locale, I'd rather be in the water using my and their boats as cover/concealment and possible place to attack or escape from than barricaded on the boat...which won't last long (the barricade, that is). You can always surrender and hope for the best, but the best under these circumstances may be very, very bad.

Scenario Two:

As soon as the BG caps the driver I'm off the bus. Period. Out the back, Jack. Or out the window. Attack in retrograde. You don't go after a maniac who has a gun and has just blasted someone with just a knife or OC under such environmental conditions...unless no other option exists.

If you attempt to assault and he starts firing wildly, you are responsible for whoever else is killed or injured.

Plus, you might suck up the rounds yourself and be of no further help to anyone.

Get off the bus (environmental awareness - the first line of effective self defense - where is / are the exits? how can I open this window FAST?) and immediately notify the cops. You are now LIVE eye witness with information critical to effective tactical intervention and / or hostage negotiations. You are also living eye witness to the initial shooting and can put this guy away for life.

Wanna be a hero? Better a live/smart hero than a dumb dead duck.

Good scenarios

:D
 
Thanks Greg. I am glad this forum exists. Before you posted I thought my ideas were pretty good. Its always good to really learn something. Your addressing this issues makes me learn how to react in other situations as well. I learn to look at unconventional options rather than always thinking linearly.
 
Thanks. Remember, however, I'm learning from you guyz and gals on the forum, too:D

Scenario:

Your wife / significant other is out shopping. It's midday and the sun is out. However, she had to park at the isolated part of the mall's lot due to the shopping day crunch.

She's tossed her items into the truck of the 4-Door sedan and quickly activates the electronic lock opening, sliding into the driver's seat and shutting the door after her.

She's just putting the key into the ignition when someone who she didn't see (lying on the floor and because she forgot environmental awareness considerations under such circumstances) bolts upright and wraps his forearm around her throat. He's now yelling at her to shut up and do what he tells her to. He yells he has a knife and will cut her if she does not comply. She did get the engine started but is still in PARK. However, she did back into the parking space rather than nose the vehicle in (Good Girl!).

What have YOU taught / trained her to do in this specific situation, JACK!:mad:
 
She knows that anyone grabbing her like this is bad news all around and her likelyhood of surviving intact is nil and slim if she goes along with him. She had the sense to put the car in backwards, so she floors the gas and the six cylinder car roars up while she slams the lever into drive. She plows forward steering if possible but heading for something big and heavy, the seatback and airbag will have to protect her. While she is going zero to whatever she is screaming obscenities at him and trying to claw his eyes out, tear a chunck of his arm or hand off with ehr teeth and heading for a pillar or wall or SUV, big and heavy looking for the impact that will kill the car and she cannot be driven away. The BG will be banged up by the collision more than she as she is going to have the airbag. She wil have the rage and indignity of putting up with this (I do have my uses...she puts up with me!)

She is hitting the horn with her free hand if possible. The big crash and horn and squealing tires will bring traffic quick and she will have a good description as she has taken chunks of him out with her teeth. She will be bruised and maybe even injured but in control and will not need to deal with the post trauma of worse assault, rape or even being murdered after these affronts. She will be alive and in one piece or close to it.

Ugly scenario Greg, good job.

What else can we do here. Mine will not carry and will not train.


Bae, what is a perfectly good boat doing in Yemen anyway? Mine is tied to a pier with a full cooler next to the bar and grill!
 
Water scenario...

This one is tricky - I chose the example because I am aware of the particulars of a real piracy incident in this location.

You, as a civilian, are in a pretty precarious position in this area in a yacht. If you've obeyed the authorities, you don't have any firearms onboard. You may have improvised weapons available (flare guns, knives, spear-guns, water cannon, flares, gasoline, ...), but likely nothing that will resist a serious armed assault.

I think there are some possibilities of ramming/disabling the opposition vessels, depending on their maneuverability and your capabilities. Tricky with multiple vessels.

The current "best practice" recommendation in these situations is prevention and deterrence - travelling in a group/convoy with other transiting yachts, staying in touch via radio, yacking on the radio in view of the opposition (even if you're not talking to anyone real - have a crew member with a handheld talking back...), and other actions to encourage the pirates (who are sometimes the authorities...) to go after an easier target.

Remember, many of these guys are just local fishermen out for some extra cash, and they want to go home to their families too. The hope is that when they see you talking on the radio, see that you have observed them, and notice that you are prepared to put up at least minimal resistance, they'll go elsewhere.

These are not optimal answers, sorry to say, and I'm not sure I buy these recommendations.

I'm intrigued by the "go into the water" approach - it certainly has possibilities in the worst-case scenarios, and may be "thinking outside the box" for the opposition.

I'd prefer to have a Barrett or a 20mm cannon, and send a few rounds into their engines/steering gear, but that's not a likely option in most parts of the world. (It's also fairly hard to achieve decent accuracy with small-arms from the deck of a small boat. I've tried this, and it can be frustrating...) I wonder if I can get my Senator to write me up some Letters of Marque?
 
Originally posted by Sierra912

What have YOU taught / trained her to do in this specific situation, JACK!:mad:
Click to expand...

Protect airway, neck. Tuck chin and turn, to alleviate choke.

Then, depending on threat assessment, one or more of:

A) grab handy Spyderco Rescue from its driver-side spot, start cutting to achieve release. Or use Mag-Lite and impact techniques.

B) go for release w/o weapon. (She's had extensive edged-weapons defense & weapons retention training, and some hand-to-hand.)

C) accelerate out of parking spot, aim for impact in such a way as to dislodge/injure attacker.

D) use her firearm if it can be reasonably deployed. If a release works, exiting the vehicle might permit this.
 
1. Attended a CLIPIT self defense course taught by Erik Remmen with her...where this scenario comes from and is taught / drilled out in the parking lot...in a car...full speed once the basics are walked through several times and after the main body of instruction and training has been given.

2. Got her the appropriate CLIPIT for daily carry.

3. Ensured environmental awareness stays a priority for daily living.

4. Encouraged to join gym, work out, stay strong and get stronger.

5. Nurture the Will to Live above all else.
 
lets just say in hth combat the suckers toast, I am 34 around 400 lbs and block a plane aisle ver easily, the flight crew always gives me a weapon when i come on board a seat belt extension, anyway pens are good i can through them with a high degree of power and accuracy (office darts, is my stress relief at work it involves unbent paperlips, chopsticks, and inkpens and a cardboard box)btw Iam also well versed in about 6 martial arts, and have been known in more more impetuous youth to break cinder blocks while they are still in the wall, and leave knucke indentions in 1/4 in plate steel doors. Sooooo when the big bad bagdad wolffie show his true colors i will pound him into pulp.
 
Yeah, buddy.

Teamwork. That's the ticket.

I'll trip him...you mush him like one of them cinderblocks:)

Next scenario, please?
 
What an awesome thread.
Its way too long for me to read the whole thing though. Sorry.
I'm on the first one.
You guys did great. Very good improvised weapons.

I would notice that he was using both hands to garrotte the poor girl, walk up to him and insert my thumbs into his eyes.
If I was behind him, I would probably just choke him out.
Mine is kind of boring.


Nudist riot.

Mick
 
The seatbelt extension sounds like a great flail.

How about an unopened beverage can in a tube sock? A couple of whacks with that would put the BG's lights out.
 
New scenario:

You are a schoolteacher in a small one-room schoolhouse. You have eight students, K-3. The schoolhouse is on the transitional edge of the local village, not in the busy core. An angry ex-boyfriend of one of the children's parents bursts in, in the middle of the day, and tries to grab the child. The child clearly is afraid, and doesn't want to go. You've heard there is a restraining order between the boyfriend and the parent.

What next?


<img src="http://be-ip37.rockisland.com/bae/pictures/12-20-01/25/118-1892_IMG.JPG">
 
Com'on Improv Dogs...

Whadda we gonna do, Jack? Whadda we gonna DO!:mad:

You guys are starting to kick some serious stuff here. Way good.

Sierra
 
Think quick...

<img src="http://be-ip37.rockisland.com/bae/pictures/12-20-01/25/118-1884_IMG.JPG">
 
I'd be absolutely sympathetic to the fellow, and might even mention an "ex-wife" so that he knows I'm on his side. I'd tell him that it's "no problem" but he just has to come with me to "fill out a form" and then they can get going. I would gesture and say "after you" so he would hopefully walk ahead of me. Once I have him at least somewhat away from the childern I will know what he is up to and hopefully if he is packing. I would tell the most responsible 3rd grader to take the kids for "ten minute break outside" or somewhere else dependant on the weather, etc. to play some game "while I helped this nice man" (again, whatever seemed natual at the time)

By this point if he hadn't tipped his hand, etc. I would continue talking to him while monitoring his hands. Then I would hand him the phone (keeping his hands busy) and ask him to call his ex "just so I can get her OK". At this point, in the next few seconds, I think he would either realise he was in way too far and try to leave peacefully or he would do something stupid. Either way, I would have a legal right to stop him from abducting said child, even if that included force.

I'm sorry if this is not a tough-guy terrorist-killer forum response, but it is an honest "gut reaction". I worked for several years in an elementary school and had to deal with seperated parents, restraining orders, mandated weekends, etc. so these things have gone through my mind once or twice before.

All the best,

Pete Kautz
 
One of several virtues extolled by warriors in ancient Greece was the ability to calm an angry person.

They had a specific name for it, but it escapes me now. I read about it either in The Greeks and the Irrational by E.R. Dodds, or Paideia by Werner Jaeger - I think they were citing intances of this in The Illiad but again, its been awhile since I read the book(s).

I've had to calm some ballistic situations in the past - being able to keep your head when everyone around you is loosing theirs is a definate asset.

Thats why police, fbi, etc. have trained "negotiators."
 
Focus:

Ex-BOYFRIEND. Not father.

"Bursts in". Bursts? That's a bad thing.

Other children present and in close proximity...and friends of child...and inclined to possibly intervene and protect from angry adult...and therefore be in Harm's Way...and you are responsible for their health, welfare, and safety. Gotta move!

"Grabs". Unwanted and offensive physical contact; harassement; intent appears to a reasonable person that Idiot intends to remove the child forcefully from the premises.

Boyfriend is "angry".

Child - not his - is clearly "afraid".

Child - not his - "does not want to go".

Possible kidnapping in progress...

Restraining order is interesting but - under the circumstances - irrelevant.

Resolution:

1. Verbal Directive / Order delivered in loud voice "Leave the child alone!"

2. Punch to Idiot's temple (Rabbit) to stun then foot stomp to disrupt balance and introduce pain with intent of effecting release of child.

3. Yell to one of identified older children to get to phone and call 9-11.

4. Throat grab Idioit. Foot sweep, take to ground.

5. Knee drop to solar plexis (of Idiot).

6. Spin, shuffle, roll over, mount, and choke Idiot out.

7. If cops aren't there yet secure Idiot with shoe lace (tie both thumbs together behind back).

8. Gather children together in safe place away from Idiot.

9. Pull child subjected to initial assault by Idiot in close and comfort.

10. Monitor Idiot (also known as "Moron").

11. Make full report to police and indicate all children who witnessed the incident (witnesses).

12. Contact parent(s).

13. Seek restraining order of Idiot from premises or anywhere within 500 feet.

14. Write down all that happened and why you took actions you did. Contact your lawyer.

15. Make no statement to press.

16. Send nice note to Kelly Worden for excellent training and Silent Fighter to practice on.

:D

Next scenario, please?
 
Originally posted by Sierra912

16. Send nice note to Kelly Worden for excellent training and Silent Fighter to practice on.
Click to expand...

I just went and looked up this "Silent Fighter" of which you speak. Looks much nicer than the tree trunks I've been using. Is it a worthwhile investment?

[On edit: never mind, I found the thread on this below.]
 
Okay, you stop at the local Gas and Go for a tank of gas and a large coke. It is three AM and you are not at 100% effort by any means.

You walk in after gassing up and head to the soda fountain for your wake-up call. As you reach for the cup (out of site of the attendant) you hear the door open and two different voices say effectively "this is a robbery give us your money or I'll shoot"

You are in IL and legal, meaning you have no firearm available to you. You are carrying a cellphone, a folding knife, pocket money and (maybe) have not been seen by the perpetrators. You may be able to sneak into the back room unseen. The robbers are between you and the door. Whaddya do, Jack, what do you do?
 
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