A pen is just a pen tactical or not. I would laugh in any bodies face who tries to argue with me about how my pen is an intended weapon. EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING I carry can be improvised as weapon and believe me I have already thought about it right down to the steel belt buckle attached to the heavy leather belt I wear everyday. NYC is a pain in the ass, so always have a legit purpose for what you carry like the very sturdy carpenter pencils( improvised kubotan) I use everyday.
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Is a Kubotan legal to carry in new york city?
- Thread starter SwatMC
- Start date
My understanding is that New York considers posession of the weapon to be intent to use it unlawfully against another.
Yeah, the earlier post pointed that out to me already. D'oh. I'm still find a presumption of intent offensive though. What happened to mens rea?
But SVRIDER1 is right. Many things with perfectly plausible explanations can be used to defend oneself. Be creative.
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Good idea on the carpenters pencil . watch out for the belt buckle , there is case law , where guys have been drilled for removing a belt in a cofrontational situation . It's a common practice in Canada , G.B. and Scotland . Absent an American precedent , I believe stuff from these juristictions might be quotable . Probably not a real worry unless you accomplish something really gorey .
Chris
Thank God for the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Privacy Act of 1974 and HIPAA
we should be thankful for the 2nd amendment... but it seems even the oldest and most foundational of laws are getting taken away.
soon disabled people will not be allowed canes... just a prediction
...My first flight after 9/11 I was in a mad scramble to find something I could carry with an edge and a point on the plane ( not because of paranoia but because I am a sd and knife guy and can't be without something like that close at hand. ). A couple of weeks before the flight we had taken the kids to the aquarium and on the way out we passed through the gift shop. A small wooden surfboard key chain caught my eye about 3 1/2" long and about an 1 1/4" wide at the widest part. It was a decent compromise, It was very sturdy and somewhat thick and had a workable point. A few adjustments with an emory board borrowed from my wife and it was perfect. I tossed it right into the dog bowl with keys attached and a smile on my face. I had it with me the whole time we were on vacation. I passed it on to a good friend that was flying to japan who asked me what I planned to bring on the plane.
Before the sd guy's chime in, yes I did train with it and surprisingly enough it actually felt better in my hand than some of my kubotans.
Before the sd guy's chime in, yes I did train with it and surprisingly enough it actually felt better in my hand than some of my kubotans.
K Williams
Gold Member
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- Nov 17, 1998
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- 3,251
Sounds like the Fulton...Albee Square... Mall. It's not even bad there anymore, as far as I'm concerned. Try that area in the mid 80s to early 90s!!!
It looks like the law makers would rather see a law abiding citizen get robbed, hurt, or worse.
I just want to add that a kubotan is useless for self-defense in NYC. Most thugs in NYC carry guns. Some carry knives. A kubotan isn't going to deter anyone from robbing or assaulting you. In fact no "weapon" that you can legally carry will be much of a deterrent. All a kubotan will do for you is get you arrested some day for weapon posession.
So what to do?
Be aware of your surroundings, don't get into bar fights, don't go into any bar where there are frequent bar fights, don't wear gold jewelry, don't display your iPod, etc.
On a serious note, carry a pen or a mechanical pencil with a pointy tip. It's 100% legal. Practice stabbing your assailant in the eyes. Even the toughest thug will have a change of attitude when he suddenly becomes half blind. And if God forbid you ever have to defend yourself this way don't do it unless your life is really in danger.
That's the bitter irony in New York law. You can use deadly force in self-defense if your life is in danger but it's almost impossible to legally carry anything more lethal than pepper spray.
So what to do?
Be aware of your surroundings, don't get into bar fights, don't go into any bar where there are frequent bar fights, don't wear gold jewelry, don't display your iPod, etc.
On a serious note, carry a pen or a mechanical pencil with a pointy tip. It's 100% legal. Practice stabbing your assailant in the eyes. Even the toughest thug will have a change of attitude when he suddenly becomes half blind. And if God forbid you ever have to defend yourself this way don't do it unless your life is really in danger.
That's the bitter irony in New York law. You can use deadly force in self-defense if your life is in danger but it's almost impossible to legally carry anything more lethal than pepper spray.
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K Williams, after working for the city as a LEO, I had the pleasure of running the Albee Square Mall( Gallery at Metrotech) from 1992 to 2001 ( it has been torn down now). I now manage 5 million sq ft of retail in NY NJ PA, but still have an office near to the old Albee Square Mall at the two new malls at Atlantic and Flatbush.....still loads of fun there as I spent this afternoon helping to arrest three guys who threaten to shoot an off duty female NYPD Officer who works there for me in our security department....
Say a officer happens to notice the mini-grip in my pocket (not clipped, just buried in the pocket). What kind of hell can I expect to receive?
I have been to NYC a few times before, and on all occasions had some type of knife with me (last time was a Spec Bump!). I will be there again soon, and to be honest, I am kind of lost without something in the pocket for potential SD.
With that said, everywhere we went I felt secure, as there were cops on every corner it seemed.
I have been to NYC a few times before, and on all occasions had some type of knife with me (last time was a Spec Bump!). I will be there again soon, and to be honest, I am kind of lost without something in the pocket for potential SD.
With that said, everywhere we went I felt secure, as there were cops on every corner it seemed.
K Williams
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- 3,251
Yeah, I keep forgetting Albee Square Mall is gone(I do most "mall" shopping in Manhattan or Long Island now). There's only the Fulton Mall and the big one on Atlantic Ave. I went to Brooklyn Tech H.S. Lots of stuff happened during that time...height of the crack era.
(Assuming the officer decided to arrest you), you would get hit with either 4th or 3d. degree criminal posession of a weapon. 4th is an A misdomeanor, 3rd is a D felony. If you have any prior criminal record, you would be charged with 3d. degree.
Sentencing guidleines on the A misdomeanor range from probation to 1 year in jail. (Violent) D Felony's are generally recommended 2 to 7 years in prison, assuming no predicate felonies within the past decade.
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bottom line,if the cop likes how you look and is in a good mood he'll leave you alone.if he dont like how you look,is pissed off,ingnorant or has something to prove he'll charge you for carrying car keys as a weapon.
i would really assume any type weapon to be illegal in the city limits and you can bet your ass that no matter how justified if you used a kubaton on someone some ADA would try and nail your ass to a wall.
i think NYC's good safety record has plateaued.i suspect crime to go back up again.c'mon,how long can this really last in a city like that.its all temporary.it'll fall off again.not like it matters
i would really assume any type weapon to be illegal in the city limits and you can bet your ass that no matter how justified if you used a kubaton on someone some ADA would try and nail your ass to a wall.
i think NYC's good safety record has plateaued.i suspect crime to go back up again.c'mon,how long can this really last in a city like that.its all temporary.it'll fall off again.not like it matters
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Like other posters, I find a Mini-Maglite a good replacement for a Kubaton. Over the last year though I've been carrying a Cold Steel 'Sharky' - Yes, I know! I actuaslly find it pretty good though. It cost very little, clips to the edge of a pocket, and is actually quite handy as a pen! I've been through loads of searches with it, including customs checks and have had no problems whatsoever. One thing I did do however is sand off the Cold Steel logo.
I actuaslly find it pretty good though. It cost very little, clips to the edge of a pocket, and is actually quite handy as a pen! I've been through loads of searches with it, including customs checks and have had no problems whatsoever. One thing I did do however is sand off the Cold Steel logo.
K Williams
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- Nov 17, 1998
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- 3,251
Streamlight BatonLite
Like other posters, I find a Mini-Maglite a good replacement for a Kubaton. Over the last year though I've been carrying a Cold Steel 'Sharky' - Yes, I know!
Nothing wrong with the cold steel sharky. I thought about picking up one myself, but I always have carpenter pencils and a concrete scribe(strong aluminum with a carbide tip) with me anyway... ALONG WITH A CHALK BOX AND RULER.
Attackers stay away from people who don't look like easy targets!!!
+1 on sanding off the cold steel logo, glad to see people using common sense!
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I would have to agree with those that say it is legal to carry a Kubotan in NYC. I was a NYC Police Officer for 15 years and a kubotan is most definitely not listed in the New York State Penal Law as a prohibited weapon. Neither am I aware of any administrative code prohibiting it. In my 15 years I never saw or ever even heard of anyone being arrested for having one. People get hung up on the term "Dangerous Instrument" and confuse it with "Deadly Weapon". Section 265 of the New York State Penal specifically defines what is a deadly weapon. A kubotan does not qualify. A deadly weapon is illegal in and of itself so that the mere possession of one even absent any use or attempted use of it is illegal. Not so with a "Dangerous Instrument". While almost anything can become a "Dangerous Instrument" it only becomes one if you use it as such. Example, stab someone in the eye with a Mont Blanc pen and it becomes a dangerous instrument. Now does anyone seriously think you are going to be arrested for walking around manhattan with a Pen? The same holds true for the kubotan. I often carry a Koga SD1 by Cold steel and pass it off as a massage tool which it looks like. In any case, you can carry that all day long and unless you hit someone with it it is perfectly legal.
SelfDefensePT welcome. This is an old thread, but I was interested in your response. The term "Dangerous Knife" is the most concerning part of the NYS PL with this design. I had a similar background to you in the past ( same location) different employer and I have seen collars for so many types of knives that I would not be surprised this style could be considered a dangerous knives and a weapon by design. One of my close friends still runs the DAT desk in one of the Boros court houses, and there are many knife arrests that you and I would shake our heads at. My other friend is the ICO LT at one house and tells me now that gravity knives are no longer illegal there has been a big drop in knife arrests. I tend to advise on the side of caution.
The term "deadly weapon" includes any type rifle, shotgun, firearm and air gun and these are not illegal in and of themselves for possession. The term deadly weapon is used more so to show the level of force used as if you use a "deadly weapon" you have used deadly force against that person, and therefore the statue defines the level of force simply by using one of these items. Most of the items listed as deadly weapons are illegal :
2. "Deadly weapon" means any loaded weapon from which a shot, readily
capable of producing death or other serious physical injury, may be
discharged, or a switchblade knife, gravity knife, pilum ballistic
knife, metal knuckle knife, dagger, billy, blackjack, plastic knuckles,
or metal knuckles.
This is the link for deadly weapon.
http://ypdcrime.info/penal.law/article10.htm
The term "deadly weapon" includes any type rifle, shotgun, firearm and air gun and these are not illegal in and of themselves for possession. The term deadly weapon is used more so to show the level of force used as if you use a "deadly weapon" you have used deadly force against that person, and therefore the statue defines the level of force simply by using one of these items. Most of the items listed as deadly weapons are illegal :
2. "Deadly weapon" means any loaded weapon from which a shot, readily
capable of producing death or other serious physical injury, may be
discharged, or a switchblade knife, gravity knife, pilum ballistic
knife, metal knuckle knife, dagger, billy, blackjack, plastic knuckles,
or metal knuckles.
This is the link for deadly weapon.
http://ypdcrime.info/penal.law/article10.htm