Is a Kubotan legal to carry in new york city?

[SelfDefensePT]

SelfDefensePT welcome. This is an old thread, but I was interested in your response. The term "Dangerous Knife" is the most concerning part of the NYS PL with this design. I had a similar background to you in the past ( same location) different employer and I have seen collars for so many types of knives that I would not be surprised this style could be considered a dangerous knives and a weapon by design. One of my close friends still runs the DAT desk in one of the Boros court houses, and there are many knife arrests that you and I would shake our heads at. My other friend is the ICO LT at one house and tells me now that gravity knives are no longer illegal there has been a big drop in knife arrests. I tend to advise on the side of caution.

The term "deadly weapon" includes any type rifle, shotgun, firearm and air gun and these are not illegal in and of themselves for possession. The term deadly weapon is used more so to show the level of force used as if you use a "deadly weapon" you have used deadly force against that person, and therefore the statue defines the level of force simply by using one of these items. Most of the items listed as deadly weapons are illegal :

2. "Deadly weapon" means any loaded weapon from which a shot, readily
capable of producing death or other serious physical injury, may be
discharged, or a switchblade knife, gravity knife, pilum ballistic
knife, metal knuckle knife, dagger, billy, blackjack, plastic knuckles,
or metal knuckles.
This is the link for deadly weapon.

http://ypdcrime.info/penal.law/article10.htm

Hello Tom,

I didn’t realize it was such an old thread until after I replied. I have been out of the job a long time and I realize in the interim the question of what knives are legal and illegal has become murky, but my reply did not address knives in any way. I was speaking solely about Kubotans. They have never been illegal in New York.

As far as the term “Deadly Weapon” is concerned, while it is true it is used in statutory language defining assaults, robberies and burglaries either as an aggravating factor or denote level of force used or implied, Thereby raising the level of crime, possession of one is a crime.

My purpose in mentioning the term deadly weapon want to point out that weapons defined in the penal law as such or illegal in and of themselves And do not require any action or intent on the part of the person carrying it in order to be charged with a crime. The mere possession of a deadly weapon is illegal in the state of New York. This is not the case with a Kubaton. Like many other items such as a pen, a Kubaton is perfectly legal to carry at all times and only comes into Play as an aggravating factor in a crime when it is actually used or threatened to be used. Even then, it remains only an aggravating factor in the underlying crime and not an additional charge itself. This is not the case with a deadly weapon. When a person for example is charged with armed robbery with a deadly weapon such as a firearm, Not only do they face an elevated level of robbery Beyond simple robbery in the third degree, they also charged with criminal possession of a deadly weapon. In the event they are acquitted of the robbery they will still be forced to defend the weapons charge.

This famously was the case with respect to Bernard Ghoetz, the so-called subway vigilante. He was charged with multiple accounts of assault, was acquitted on all of them the court finding that he acted in self-defense, but was prosecuted convicted and sentenced for possessing an illegal handgun which qualifies as a deadly weapon in New York State. This would not be the case with a Kubaton or any other implement used as a dangerous instrument if the underlying crime fails. There is no additional charge of possession of a dangerous instrument. I suppose the same can be said for possession of Burglars tools. Under New York State law, You could only charge a person with possession of Burlars tools if you also charge them with either a burglary, a larceny or an attempt at one of those crimes.

Personally, I avoid all of these controversies. I don't carry a gun anymore, but whenever I’m out and about particularly in the city of New York I always carry cane. The cane is the ultimate self-defense tool because it cannot be prohibited anywhere even on a commercial flight. It is codified in the law and by the TSA as a mobility device. I carry it everywhere and it is an extremely effective self-defense tool.

 

[ndmiller]

So now it's illegal to carry a 4-5" stick in NYC??!!What BS!

I'm not a lawyer, and this isn't advice, but, from my experience living and working in NYC after growing up in the tri-state area, one of the first questions you will be asked when you interact with the Police is "do you have anything on you that could hurt me?" or something like that. Depending on how you answer, what you were doing and where they are in their shift will culminate into a verbal/written warning for whatever you were doing or getting detained with more questions. If you are detained you will be patted down/frisked/searched and anything found that could be used to hurt someone will be initially found illegal by the officer. Open is one thing, concealed is another, so a flashlight on your belt is different than concealed in a cargo pocket.

This doesn't mean any of this will ever happen to you or anyone you know......But a simple act of jaywalking across a major avenue or street slipping through barrier up to keep people from jaywalking can turn into a nightmare for seemingly no reason at all. I would be conservative on what you carry and how you act in NY State, especially driving and double conservative in NYC. Simple bonehead acts anywhere else in the US can easily turn into arrest and lockup in NYC (for at least 24 hours), they don't put up with BS from the public, especially visitors.

The only other state besides the rest of the tri-state (NJ & CT) I've been to or lived in with similar police is Texas and their state troopers. The speed limits are very high and if you drive normally with traffic at 70, 75, 80, 85 (around Austin) whatever you'll be fine, but pull any driving BS they see and you will be stopped. After stopping, you will hear over their PA something like "Texas State Trooper, step out of the vehicle" and I suggest you obey any commands given no matter what they tell you.

 

[SelfDefensePT]

I'm not a lawyer, and this isn't advice, but, from my experience living and working in NYC after growing up in the tri-state area, one of the first questions you will be asked when you interact with the Police is "do you have anything on you that could hurt me?" or something like that. Depending on how you answer, what you were doing and where they are in their shift will culminate into a verbal/written warning for whatever you were doing or getting detained with more questions. If you are detained you will be patted down/frisked/searched and anything found that could be used to hurt someone will be initially found illegal by the officer. Open is one thing, concealed is another, so a flashlight on your belt is different than concealed in a cargo pocket.

This doesn't mean any of this will ever happen to you or anyone you know......But a simple act of jaywalking across a major avenue or street slipping through barrier up to keep people from jaywalking can turn into a nightmare for seemingly no reason at all. I would be conservative on what you carry and how you act in NY State, especially driving and double conservative in NYC. Simple bonehead acts anywhere else in the US can easily turn into arrest and lockup in NYC (for at least 24 hours), they don't put up with BS from the public, especially visitors.

The only other state besides the rest of the tri-state (NJ & CT) I've been to or lived in with similar police is Texas and their state troopers. The speed limits are very high and if you drive normally with traffic at 70, 75, 80, 85 (around Austin) whatever you'll be fine, but pull any driving BS they see and you will be stopped. After stopping, you will hear over their PA something like "Texas State Trooper, step out of the vehicle" and I suggest you obey any commands given no matter what they tell you.

JTR357,

I see you responded to my last post. If you refer to my previous post you will see I was a NYC Police Officer for 15 years in the South Bronx and had 500 arrests. I will reiterate here what I said there. A Kubotan is NOT illegal in the State or City of New York, I have never arrested anyone for one, and in all of my years I have never heard of anyone being arrested for one. Every arrest in NYC must be verified or affirmed by the Patrol Supervisor who is technically supposed to respond to the scene of the arrest to do this. For practical reasons like not wanting a crowd to gather, this is rarely done. Instead, the arresting Officers transport the person they arrested to the Precinct Station House where the Desk Officer ( usually a Sgt. or a Lieutenant ) asks the officer what he has and verifies the arrest. Since there is no law on the books prohibiting mere possession of a Kubotan, the Desk Officer will order the arrest voided. So even if by some chance, an officer were to mistakenly think you were in possession of something illegal and cuff you, once you arrived at the PCT you would be cut loose, this would be documented, and you would now have grounds to sue the City of New York for false arrest. On that score, the Corporation Counsel ( the city's law firm ) has always been overwhelmed with litigation and simply cannot afford to fight cases. It costs $100,000 to bring a case to trial so anytime they can settle a case out of court for less than that, they view it as a cost savings and do so. So, you should actually hope that someone does arrest you for a Kubotan. It's like getting a lottery ticket that after negotiation and lawyer fees, will assure you of at least a $50,000 payday.

 

[tom19176]

SelfDefensePT Very true as stated above. They City normally offers $10,000 to walk away to start...lol...