Is Jesus God?

[timcsaw]

The old testament is not the testament of the Christians.

 

[FlyingKiwi]

To anybody who has ever seriously criticized The Bible or Christianity, you should read the Bible and try to understand it. It is imposable to convince a person God is real. I cannot give you a list of bullet points proving my cause. Read the Bible, digest it. This will help you understand the Christian world view if nothing else.

Probably the biggest hurdle preventing people from wanting to become a Christian is the issue of faith, which in many ways is the principal founding block of the religion. It takes decisions out of our own hands and makes us acknowledge our Lord as and entity that is not just above us in authority, but one that gave us all we have, and showed enough grace towards us that we have the opportunity for eternal life.

The biggest issue that I have with the Catholic church is that they essentially remove the faith, replacing it with rituals, idols and tradition. These things simply require learning by the person and surely can evoke emotional changes, but it places the motives in the wrong place and essentially avoids the lifeline God has given us, instead using the pope and 'saints' to edge around the issue. That is not a way to get into heaven at all.

Also God knows our hearts. He cannot be fooled by our actions or in-genuine faith in Him. It is easy for Christians to do the right things (like helping others etc.) for the wrong reasons, like attention and praise, and while others see them as being a 'good person' it makes no headway with God until we give ourselves fully to him.

 

[Kiah]

No it doesn't. If it did you would "fill the page" like you offered to earlier.

Of course it does. Rules on everything you do. Rules for who should be killed. The Bible is not that far off from the "evils" of Islam. Christians just ignore those parts.

You are really, really wrong and should do some studies obviously. Regional religious base - you just make that up ? lol Are hindu and buddhist the same regional religious base ? They believe in completely different things yet come form the same region.

You really think that Islam, Judaism, and Christianity aren't related? Of course they are. So are other religions from that area that they split into or got their stories from. Many discarded by now. Buddhism and Hinduism are different of course. They aren't Abrahamic religions. Hinduism is older than the others obviously.

 

[Kiah]

I used to wonder how a God who was so loving could command so many massive killings of people in the old testament but I realized one day that if evil people overtook the world who would God give his spirit to?

Do you consider homosexuals to be evil and in need of death? Adulterers? Children that act out?

 

[HairahSitna]

You're free, of course, to interpret it as such. Of course it's a parable, but the relationship is obvious in context. Yeah, it is obvious, no command to kill others was ever given by Jesus. period. It was a parable about a man - not Jesus.

Do you really deny that there are no instances of commanded killing in the Bible or even killings by God himself? Double negative....but anyway. So what ? God gives life, he takes it away, who are you to judge God ? You are also missing a very important point, as usual it seems. When God commanded the tribes of Israel to kill - it was a specific time and place and people each time. It was not an open ended statement to kill anyone who is not Jewish any time you see them. Of course right there in the koran we have that statement many times over. we also see it practiced daily all over the globe. How many jews are running around killing people yelling in "Jehova's Name" How many muslims killing yelling "Akba Allah" ? The reason is simple the koran commands them to.

My point was that the Bible is not as flowery as people proclaim it to be. I never said it was flowery.

The murder of non-believers, killing women and children, genocide, etc. is there. OT only - unless you mean the romans killing the Jews in the NT

The rules are just as strict as the "evil" Koran, they're just ignored. You have never read the koran or surah or hadith it is so blatantly obvious.

Of course the NT is nicer than than the OT, but keeping the good stories from that and explaining away the bad is nonsense.

Ever hear of the new covenant ?

Another example of Jesus dealing with violence: When Jesus was arrested by the Temple guards of the Sanhedrin Simon Peter cut off the ear of Malchus, a servant of Caiaphas, the high priest. Jesus healed the wound. John, Matthew, and Luke state that Jesus criticized the violent act, insisting that they do not resist Jesus' arrest. So violent jesus would not even resist when they came to arrest him ? In fact he stopped armed resistance by a disciple and healed the one who had been injured even though he was arresting him. Sounds like a real killer to me.[/B]

 

[Kiah]

I'll attempt to pull quotes outta that mess, so bear with me.

God gives life, he takes it away, who are you to judge God ?

Stating my opinion on the context of a book. I don't believe in God.

When God commanded the tribes of Israel to kill - it was a specific time and place and people each time.

Stonings seemed pretty generalized quite a few times.

OT only - unless you mean the romans killing the Jews in the NT

Well, if you're gonna throw out the OT, then we can do away with the nice parts as well? I don't see this happening though.

You have never read the koran or surah or hadith it is so blatantly obvious.

It's been a long time on the Koran and I haven't read the others. I have a bit of trouble believing you've read the Bible as well, so I guess we're just stuck.

 

[HairahSitna]

Of course it does. Rules on everything you do. Rules for who should be killed. The Bible is not that far off from the "evils" of Islam. Christians just ignore those parts. You have zero understanding of Christianity apparently. let us explain on more time slowly so you can comprehend - according to chritianity when jesus died there was a new covenant created, so "Rules on everything you do. Rules for who should be killed." blah blah went out the window. Which is obvious to anyone who can see and think clearly. Do Christians eat kosher ? oh no they don't. just one example. I could fill the page if you want. A simple check of jewish rules on living compared to christian rules will show a VAST difference. Why do you keep on trying to pile the OT stuff on Jesus and his followers when he came to replace the OT with a new one ? So saying "Christians just ignore those parts" really shows us how much you really know about the subject, because those parts were not for them to follow in the first place !! jeez.


You really think that Islam, Judaism, and Christianity aren't related? Of course they are. So are other religions from that area that they split into or got their stories from. Many discarded by now. Buddhism and Hinduism are different of course. They aren't Abrahamic religions. Hinduism is older than the others obviously.

Related ? obama is related to dick cheney so what ? does that mean they are the same, believe the same things ? Related doesn't mean they have the same values. jeez again.

 

[Kiah]

Related ? obama is related to dick cheney so what ? does that mean they are the same, believe the same things ? Related doesn't mean they have the same values. jeez again.

Honestly the red text is a bit much, and if you're gonna call me out on grammar (wrongly), you could at least try to capitalize. Not trying to be a pain, but you appear to be frustrated, and your posts are getting hard to read.

I was originally referring to "The Bible". In my mind that includes the OT. Tossing it out (or parts of it) seems like a cop out to me. That's all. I'm gonna bow out of this thread for now, as you seem to be melting down a bit.

 

[Huntsman Knife Co.]

Do you consider homosexuals to be evil and in need of death? Adulterers? Children that act out?

No. Last time I checked my best friend, my cousin, and my 5 year old nephew are all still ticking and one is an adulterer, one is a homosexual and one is a child who acts out. Should we kill all homosexuals because they reduce the fitness of the human species by consuming resources yet producing no offspring? <--- see what I did there? In the old testament there were some cultures of people who were so evil that God permitted their destruction like the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah or every civilization that the Israelites fought against establishing their nation.

 

[HairahSitna]

I'll attempt to pull quotes outta that mess, so bear with me.



Stating my opinion on the context of a book. I don't believe in God. You are the one who said "killings by God" what did you mean by that then ??



Stonings seemed pretty generalized quite a few times. Stoning was a punishment for a specific act, not something commanded to be done to all of a certain people. Get your facts straight.



Well, if you're gonna throw out the OT, then we can do away with the nice parts as well? I don't see this happening though. That is just silly.



It's been a long time on the Koran and I haven't read the others. I have a bit of trouble believing you've read the Bible as well, so I guess we're just stuck.

I'm not stuck, I've answered your posts one at a time.

 

[HairahSitna]

Honestly the red text is a bit much, and if you're gonna call me out on grammar (wrongly), you could at least try to capitalize. Not trying to be a pain, but you appear to be frustrated, and your posts are getting hard to read.

I was originally referring to "The Bible". In my mind that includes the OT. Tossing it out (or parts of it) seems like a cop out to me. That's all. I'm gonna bow out of this thread for now, as you seem to be melting down a bit.

You seem very frustrated right now complaining about colors, especially since you were the first on to use them, remember ?

I would be frustrated too though if I couldn't make a valid point.

P.S. On the grammar thing - "deny that there are no instances of killing ?" That is clearly a double negative. How could you even say that it's not ? Capitalization shows respect - certain things and people don't get any from me, so that's intentional.

Bye.

 

[Woods Walker]

I think atheism is a religion with its own dogma. It takes a leap of faith to be an atheist after all. I feel one line statements taken from any religion to prove whatever point is childish on all sides. Somehow I get the feeling people harm each other because of their own failings and any religious context is just a weak shallow excuse to justify more secular aspirations.

 

[UffDa]

"What we have here is a failure to communicate." (I didn't make that up.) Although debating religion can be fun, after awhile it just becomes a bunch of people repeating the same thing over and over. If you are a believer, you will still be a believer and your mind will not be changed. You can not prove anything. Likewise, if you are an unbeliever, you can not prove anything, but you mind will not be changed. Therefore, IMHO, the debate becomes a complete waste of time and energy.

A very wise man once said, "There is more of man in God then there is of God in man."

In other words, who created who?


Sorry, but my karma just ran over your dogma.

 

[Subterfuge7]

I believe in Christopher Hitchens

 

[Kiah]

Not frustrated at all, though I probably should've stayed outta the thread in retrospect, as I should've known it would just lead to back and forth with somebody. I'll answer your questions, and then hopefully we're done. If you want the last word, you're welcome to it, just don't leave me with a question.

You seem very frustrated right now complaining about colors, especially since you were the first on to use them, remember ?

A single line of red is not as hard to read as bold paragraphs. May just be me, but it hurts my eyes.

I would be frustrated too though if I couldn't make a valid point.

They seem valid to me. Religion isn't really something where an agreement is gonna be reached though, no matter how much one sees their points as facts. It is what it is.

P.S. On the grammar thing - "deny that there are no instances of killing ?" That is clearly a double negative. How could you even say that it's not ?

I went to school in Kentucky.

Capitalization shows respect - certain things and people don't get any from me, so that's intentional.

Okie doke.

Bye.

Peace.

 

[HairahSitna]

Not frustrated at all, though I probably should've stayed outta the thread in retrospect, as I should've known it would just lead to back and forth with somebody. I'll answer your questions, and then hopefully we're done. If you want the last word, you're welcome to it, just don't leave me with a question.



A single line of red is not as hard to read as bold paragraphs. May just be me, but it hurts my eyes.



They seem valid to me. Religion isn't really something where an agreement is gonna be reached though, no matter how much one sees their points as facts. It is what it is.



I went to school in Kentucky.



Okie doke.



Peace.

Peace be to you as well.

 

[Yvsa]

I am not a Christian, but I have no issues with people believing what they want to. What I find disconcerting is people who don't try to better their lives. Yes, we all make mistakes, fall of the wagon, cuss, fight, etc. but if you make a conscious effort to improve your faults then you will improve as a person. The biggest mistake I see Christians(well, really, everyone) make is they ACCEPT their faults and don't try to improve themselves, relying on asking for forgiveness at the end of the day. I'm not saying you don't try to improve yourself, but your post seems to indicate that this behavior has become a pattern for you and I don't see any repentance for acts you admit are not becoming of a good person, just acceptance. That is a frightening road to go down, where does it stop? I'm sure there are lots of behaviors that could be "accepted" by an individual or even a culture that can be excused after the fact by asking for forgiveness, but are horrible crimes nonetheless.

Well said Ted!:thumbup:

I'm thinking,without looking, that I have my settings set so that I get 40 posts per page instead of whatever the default happens to be... With that said I read the 1st 3 pages wholly and then skimmed through the rest.
I'm not really sure why most people who call themselves Christian can't or won't understand that there are those of us who have studied diligently for years and then finally reject Christianity because we simply do not accept what is commonly known as the "Holy Bible" to be, The Word of God" although it is somewhat a history book.
And then what doesn't make any sense at all to me is for me to explain to them that I am not a Christian and have that present a challenge to them to continually try to change my mind forever from that point onward. To present another old cliche' "It's like trying to teach a pig to sing." If you're interested in the rest of it then you can do a search through your favored search engine to find it.

I'm also agreeing with those others in that this thread is pretty much a waste of time and bandwidth as I strongly doubt anyone here is gonna change the mind of another.
I liken this thread to be much like my Facebook page where I feel my son befriended me in order to preach to his sinful kinfolk that he has never met and does not know.
I'm still wondering how long I'll be able to allow him to be my friend before he alienates all of said people. He will always be my son and yet he alienated me many years ago when it comes to his religion. One thing I do find humorous is when my son still tries to find redeeming qualities in what I personally believe when he says something on the order of, "Why that's the same basic thing the bible teaches, or Christianity, or any other part, piece, or whatever of his faith, tenet, dogma he feels puts our beliefs on an even keel.:thumbup:

 

[Kismet]

OK.

I have exercised powerful restraint in the interests of not wanting to offend any one, any way.

However...


I will give a shiny nickel to any moderator or administrator, or to a charity of their choice, if they will lock this thread AND not let any more of this type of business show up in the Cantina or any other Blade Forums site which is not dedicated to the sole purpose of diatribes, insults, insinuations, sarcasm, inflammatory topics and whatever else which will be discussed endlessly without any resolution, nor hope of such.

Thank very much.

 

[Ultimate]

It takes decisions out of our own hands and makes us acknowledge...

This is what I don't buy into. God didn't do anything, or make any decisions for me. I made them. I don't understand the people who say "I was down on my luck, addicted to drugs, going down the wrong path. Then I found God and it turned me around." I don't understand that. Please explain to me how God did anything to directly affect your life. You are the one who changed. You are the one who realized you were living a terrible life with terrible ideals. If you changed at all, it is all your doing. If you changed, you wanted to, not God. It says more about you, than it does God.

 

[awh]

"Revelation may be defined as the communication of some truth by God to a rational creature through means which are beyond the ordinary course of nature. The truths revealed may be such as are otherwise inaccessible to the human mind &#8212; mysteries, which even when revealed, the intellect of man is incapable of fully penetrating."

When God comes into your life there is the distinct experience of being shown something by a force outside of yourself that for some inexplicable reason has entered your life. This is in part why faith is so difficult to discuss in a detached and logical way. For many but not all Christians, the first stages of this revelation experience occur at a hopeless or broken down time in their lives.