Is knife making worth it?

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Worth It is defined by what you want to get out of it. I looked at my expenses last year compared to income, and I am down $5973.91. I invested in tools to make this more efficient. When I made my first knives, I took 30 to 40 hours to make a skinner. I now average about 5-6 hours per skinner, less tempering time. With my grinder upgrades, I can probably knock another one to two hours off of that time. The majority of the money spent this last year was after the realization/decision that knife making and metallurgy are VERY GOOD for my mental health, and people love the knives I make. I bought the parts for a 2x72 and a kiln, a bandsaw, and a 9" disc. I have carpal tunnel syndrome, so take your physical limitations into account. Hand sanding can leave me unable to hold a coffee cup for a couple days if I don't work smart. This year I won't have the equipment expenses, other than a press. I hope to get closer to breaking even. Profit hasn't been a thought yet. Offsetting expenses to do what I enjoy is good enough for now.
 
To the OP for this thread:
THANKS FOR STARTING AND KEEPING THIS THREAD GOING! I have learned a few things and am glad this forum exists!

Rick and the pros here are spot on for the advice- in the end- up to you to do your own due diligence... Rick brought up a great point about his business numbers and plan for 2014- it implies he HAS an established plan of action to run the business (correct me if I'm wrong Rick- but this also keeps the business from running YOU)... Due Diligence is having your "ducks in a row," things "squared away," numbers and facts written down, and you basically "got yo' sh#@ together" overall.

It involves talking- a lot- like you are doing... having reality based expectations for yourself. This forum is not the place to fact base your numbers on... it is a place to start those conversations and learn where you can generate your own numbers from.

It also involves time in- not at the grinder... but at the library, online, in person, at your local commissioner of revenue office, the small business development association, local artist spaces and with people who know/have professional skills and things you will need like an accountant, lawyer or insurance agent.

Knowledge of the liabilities and limitations of what you are trying to do... What's a "Hobby" versus a "Business"??? Believe it or not- to you- it may be a hobby- but the fire marshal may rate some normal knifemaking items in a home as "commercial" grade... the city/county/state/federal tax folks may see your "Hobby" as a revenue generator... so its not legally a "Hobby" anymore. Even in my case I had to get a beefed-up home-owners policy secondary to adding a sub-panel in my garage to handle 220 for a MIG setup, grinder, and lathe... Im glad I checked in and re-read my policy BRFORE I got dropped...

No one here tells anyone NOT to get started... there is plenty of room for everyone at the entry-levels. Its when you start advancing or moving up you will find limitations on information as you need to be able to use your own head, your own compass... remember- maps and guides are made by people who have gone before you- and it is a good indicator of THEIR path... NO two paths remain on the same track once you find your way... then you are mapping your own path- and that territory is unknown for you. Others can and will watch you- but they will not be able to save you from your own decisions.

Are you cut out for owning and running your own craft? Read, read, read... and read some more! start out with something that is very encouraging- "Shop class as soulcraft" or "building a bridge to the 18th century"... then get into the Meat of things- learn about cashflow... Some sage advice from my wife (the spreadsheet-czar) "...The numbers do not lie..."

This is depressing crap... True! BUT- its the reality of anyone wanting to look deeper into things from a potential life perspective... Did you just buy the first car you liked? Or did you look into the insurance, reviews, tires, motor and the dealership? Did you buy the first house you saw... nope- you wanted a good fit, and you had to know not just the monthly cost- but the property taxes, interest vs principal, the maintenance costs...
Know WHY you are doing the things you do- not just what you are doing... Here is a fave of mine- SCORE.ORG- Just do a simple exercise to see if you can get your mind around some of the things that will be asked of you... download their business plan template and the first year financials... these are read-and follow guides... know your numbers. Another great resource is SPREADSHEET123.COM Free downloadable Xcel budgets and planning guides.

Always have an "Exit Plan" if you make it a business (or even a heavy hobby!)... this advice has been poo-pooed by others in another forum- but its simple business logic... think about it this way: an F-18 pilot launching off the deck of a carrier doesn't expect to fail... but he still wears a parachute! There are MANY things that can fail- some not your fault... that can cost you everything.

I have owned and operated several side businesses in the past- I can tell you from experience my "first time" I did not have a business plan- and went down in flames... Having a plan the next time was easier, smoother- and believe it or not- after doing the financials on one venture- I decided not to open it as we could not make the numbers work to a profit!! (WE you said...? Yes- consider the impact to your life and your family/friends/partner/mate/spouse/kids... its about time spent with them, and away from them)

I am not a professional knifemaker. I am barely a hobby-grinder to tell the truth... but the desire to appreciate, create and share things with the world drives a lot of guys here. you could be making gourmet donuts, left-handed smoke shifters, widgets or bits and bobs... the business side of any craft is the part where the real litmus test resides...

Im watching all the advice here as I am planning for this hobby to grow- once I grow my own skills... Thanks to all the posters!
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
There is a race to the bottom in pricing.
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A friend showed up at my shop today with a couple of fairly nice looking damascus knives and asked me how much I thought that he had paid for them. He paid $40 for one and $25 for another, including a decent sheath and shipping on both. I can do better than either one but my material costs alone would be higher, forget the hours that goes into the final product. These things were from Pakistan, bought through Ebay. I checked it out myself and lemme tell ya, the prices on billet, blades and finished knives is really amazing. Where I am going with this is that there is no longer a race to the bottom, we are already there. I have no idea of the quality of the damascus billets, some were from Pakistan and some from India, but they LOOKED good in the pictures. Personally, I would at all costs avoid anything from Pakistan simply because I feel that I would be supporting some people who for the most part wish me dead. I MIGHT buy an Indian product just to test the quality.

I have approached knife making as a hobby, I have yet to sell a single blade but if I can cover my materials and equipment costs eventually, I will consider myself to be successful. At my age I do not have the years left to cultivate an audience of collectors, even if my work is (or is not) worthy. I have the utmost respect for any and all knife makers that have managed to support themselves in this craft, art form.

By the way, I was a glass blower for 14 years, and while I made half my income at it for 10 years, the Chinese eventually killed the market. Go into a Target store or Pier One and they sell nice looking glass for less that my costs in materials and energy costs. To quote Norm from the old Cheers TV show, "it's a dog eat dog world and I'm wearing milk bone underwear".
 
A full time knife maker has to be an expert on time management, cost management, and marketing skills. It's not just about making a great knife.

Time management-figuring out how much 'time' is spent in knife making, how much time is spent in designing, how much time is spent is sourcing materials, and how much time is spent in 'administrative' endeavors like taxes, book-keeping and the like. I have run a one-man studio producing jewelry (a 'like' craft). Breaking down the time I spent on other things besides making jewelry, I found that I could make jewelry for 6 hours a day, 2 hours a day for sourcing materials and 2 hours a day for administrative tasks like book keeping. Yes, that turns into 60 hours a week. Time was my biggest asset and I couldn't waste it.

Cost management- buying is just as important as selling. It takes time to do the research to know where to find the materials you need, in the quantities you stock. There is an old saying that you make your money when you buy, not when you sell. And, you must treat your cost of operation the same way. Shop rent, insurance, advertising and a web presence are all costs of operation.

Marketing is that time spent in bring your product to market. A nice web presence requires a LOT of time away from knife making, community involvement to further your name 'recognition' takes a lot of time.

Time is money. You have to figure out what percentage of you 'time costs' must be added to each knife. If you don't, you will find yourself behind the "8 ball" quickly. If you screw up one knife, all the costs of producing that knife must be spread over all the knives you make, and your "costs per knife" takes a big hit. More pressure...

My wife used to call herself a "Christmas Widow'. I would be working 80 hrs. or more weekly from mid-November until December 24th. @ 12:00. After all, I had to do my Christmas Shopping :).

I have the utmost respect for the full-time knife makers here. Most are over-worked and under-paid. For me, in the jewelry business, I loved what I did and the time just flew by---cause I was having fun. But the time came when I had to follow accepted business procedures, and then it became a "job". It wasn't as much fun anymore, it was work.

And I haven't even mentioned the concept of "defining your market".
 
I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has replied to this thread. I don't plan on becoming a full time knife maker, but the information contained in this thread is awesome. All of the tips and "how to's" of running a small business are invaluable to me, a young man who will most likely farm for the rest of his life. Also, the looks into your personal lives and relationships with each other have been amazing. I hope this thread continues, as I have certainly enjoyed it! I almost forgot, I love all of the work you guys turn out, and hope to someday nearly match a few of you! Keep up the good work!
 
This thread ought to be in Stacy's sticky's or in the Count's standard reply to new makers:thumbup:
 
Great thread! Good fun.

Still never got iodine poison, even though we're eatin lots mo shrimp. Need to ask Mike bout that.

Sure miss Tai Goo around here.
 
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Here's a nessmuck Tai recently made that I just saw the other day

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Tai was a little unbalanced, but I love his work.

I miss Kevin too. I don't miss their fights and the drama but I miss the men and their work.
 
great read indeed... depressing at times, but that's life. I'm 4 years from retiring from my current job with just enough pension to cover a cheap mortgage and some heat and lights at best, but I'm hoping that by that time I've got the base line of knives where I want them and can pump out enough to cover the rest of my living expenses. we'll see.
 
Nathan, not sure I'd say Tai was a little unbalanced, well maybe a little ;), but otherwise agreed with ya.
 
Don Hanson III said:
Nathan, not sure I'd say Tai was a little unbalanced, well maybe a little ;), but otherwise agreed with ya.
Click to expand...

Unbalanced was the wrong word. Lets say "doesn't play well with others". His work is brilliant and he's a pretty cool dude, but he is "teh specil sno flake"...
 
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