Is knife making worth it?

[RyanW]

:thumbup:

Thanks for sharing that Nick! No matter what we choose to do, happiness is just that... a Choice!

 

[AVigil]

Wow.....

Nick looks HOT in those pictures!

 

[NickWheeler]

Wow.....

Nick looks HOT in those pictures!

Thanks, I'm on the right.

 

[David Sharp]

Is it worth it? Yup, on many levels.

I have always been a nerd when it comes to working with steel; this translated into fabrication for off-road racing and interior ornamental stuff. Unfortunately as some know I have dealt with one type of cancer or another since I was 23. Every episode has diminished my stamina so I have had to slow down physically.

I have collected knives since the first Buck I saved for and purchased as a kid. During my last round of chemo I splurged and bought a KMG and this leads me to why knife making is worth it for me (in order of importance):

1.Has given me a new focus and drive (I must live to make more knives).
1A. It makes me happy!
2.I have met and becomes friends with some of the best most supportive people; I never imagined some of the relationships I have developed.
3.I get to use all my tools (physical and mental)!
4.It is the first hobby I have had that has broken even or actually made money.

 

[deloid]

What's really crazy- is I did go off to school to get that fancy degree..... yet here I am 34, (exactly twice the age of when I first met that fella) and I have an AMAZING woman and daughter in my life, still have a completely supportive and amazing family, a very nice home and shop in a great little town just like the one I grew up in, two dogs that I have wanted since I was 15, I have made friends all over the world, and traveled to some pretty cool places----- And I am a knife maker.

Nick,

You're a lucky man. Not just your talent and drive but your support at multiple levels. I have friends here in Boise but my wife and now grown daughters are too busy to help me with my work. At least my wife and one daughter of three hunt with me.

Dean

 

[Tai Goo]

Thanks, I'm on the right.

That's amazing Nick!... can't see how you do it with those hands.

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

That's really cool Nick.

 

[Storm Crow]

Nick, if you don't mind saying, who was that knifemaker who kicked you in the pants to get started in earnest?

So that's what you look like when you let your beard grow.

 

[Adventure Sworn]

Good question...

If you are thinking of competing with production companies with production quality blades that can't be distinguished from every other cookie-cutter knife flooding the market today, then you might have a hard go at it. If you find a niche, establish your own style, market yourself and have the skill to back it, you can make a decent living. You also can't allow yourself to stagnate. There is a common theme in these types of threads that knifemakers are poor. If everybody is saying it, it must be true, right? I look at it this way... Lots of people can cook but only a few can make a living at it. Does that mean they make a better quiche than the home cook? Not necessarily. There is more to knifemaking than making knives... you need to know that if you intend on making a carreer of it.

I think Rick summed it up best, I couldn't put it any better.

Personally I've been doing this for just shy of 4 years now, and it's getting to the point where I'm not piss-broke anymore. When I started off, it wasn't too easy. Now, me on the knives and my wife on the leatherworking is definitely all we need. It can be done... but like I said before, Rick's reply is very much true. I'm not "rich" successful at this by any means, but I suppose I'd give these as pointers for a starter.

- You need to find your niche/theme in order to bring the demand. If you do this properly, your demand will be high.
- You need to make knives at a consistent speed while keeping your finish & quality as high as you can.
- Sell at a fair price for both your customers and yourself: Sell them too low, you won't keep up. Sell them too high, the demand will drop.
- Never stop enjoying what you do. If it starts to become a chore, you need to change something.
- Establish a working schedule that you can keep up with, and work hard as hell...

... if you don't mind your hands looking this, you're one step of the way there. lol

I think it is worth it.

 

[S. Sibert]

17+ years of making knives 9 years of being full time, this is my humble perspective and insight.

1. Knifemaking has real health risks. Grinding steel, manmade and natural handle materials adhered with exotic epoxies creates nasty particulates. Even with great dust collecting set ups and living in your respirator, inhalation is unavoidable over long term. Many things that knifemakers use/grind also get absorbed through the skin also like acetone, chromium, aluminum, ect….. I think I have a developed a allergic response to G-10 after all these years.

2. Taxes. Being self-employed/ business owner means you pay your taxes out of pocket via estimated quarterlies, you get to write a nice fat check to Uncle Sam. 4 times a year $$$$. If you actually happen to make any sort of slim profit over the estimated tax for that year, be prepared to pay more on top of what you all ready paid. Good luck getting refunds. Many people run under the table, and many friends and fellow makers are always ready and eager to give you tax "advice". But if you don’t want a letter or a knock at the door down the road from the IRS, and end up like Wesley Snipes, I suggest investing in a solid CPA and be ready to a take a bruising. Audits are stomach churning. Keep it honest, as this is truly the best policy, you don’t want it to come back and bite you in the ass years down the line.

3. Health insurance. Absolutely vital. You will have to purchase your own health insurance, $$$. Or if your fortunate enough to have a spouse that can add you to their plan is the best.

4. Injury. If you suffer an injury or illness that prevents you from working even a few days then your screwed as there is no one there to take up the slack or make knives for you to fall back on. That means no motorcycles, no bicycles, no ice skating, generally no risky or irresponsible behavior to put your flow of production in jeopardy. Bottom line, no output of product means no income.

5. Divorce. Many people suffer a divorce, which in general is not really ever planned. if that happens, any life line to that person that you need to stay afloat in knifemaking is severed, meaning no more additional income or health insurance, possible child support and alimony that you may have to pay out and loss property/house/shop and therefore if your knifemaking business if not self sufficient it will be difficult to be able to recover from that blow. Being a knifemaker and self-employed can strain relationships and your spouse/partner has to be understanding and behind you and have a plan. I lost my marriage over knifemaking.

6. Income. In general, income from knifemaking is spotty and unreliable. Most of society is so conditioned to get a paycheck every week or 2 on the nose. Being self-employed just throw that concept out the window. There may be weeks to months where you have nothing monetary coming in as you prepare knives to get done, waiting on steel, waiting on sheaths, waiting on payment from customers, machinery breakdowns long list of hiccups that interrupt money flow constantly. As we all know knifemaking requires much time and effort even when you already have established skills and products to peddle. That is why one of the goals/grails of individual knifemakers is to strive for consistency in income. Being the only wage earner in a family will be tough.

7. Hobbies that become your job. You will need to live, eat and breath your work to succeed for years. 24/7. Your hobby now is a career and new rules now apply. You just can’t make knives when you feel like it for a few hours every other weekend now you must make knives everyday to keep product rolling, to feed your kids and keep the bills paid. Now it is work. Playtime is over.

8. Sustainability. For any business to succeed you need hard absolute long term goals and direction. Without out a clear direction, ambition, drive, forethought, tenacity, perseverance, lack of consistency in quality your business could wobble. Constantly improving your skills over time, having consistent quality and craftsmanship, being innovative, getting publicity and exhibiting good customer relations will help you become successful while building a solid customer base may take years to achieve. Building a customer base is vital to having long term sustainability and longevity in this business.

9. Motivation. A big enemy of knifemakers. Linked to the dreaded “burnout” Self-employed also means being self-motivated for year after year, is a key to success. Distractions for self-employed people are the bane of the concept. Sacrifice and self discipline are crucial. You have to treat it like a job and a business and set yourself in a schedule and pattern and to eliminate distractions that may pull you from working, like Video games, family, yard work, gym, computers ect….

10. Product. Making knives people actually want to buy.

11. Dirty. Knifemaking is dirty, dingy work. Does your shop have heat or air conditioning? Summers and winters can be harsh with no climate control. Most only see the end result of our hard work, a cool and beautiful knife. The actual making of the knife is not so glamorous and is rather boring and beats the crap out of your hands and back.

12. Alone. Long hours of working alone with no adulations and listings to the radio, so if you’re a social butterfly this may be hard and also distracting (see motivation)

13. Dependants. Do you have a family that depends on your income to stay afloat? If so, this will be a challenge.

14. Frugal. Tighten the belt and learn to like Top Ramen…every day. :barf: Let’s see do I need to order grinding belts, steel, Micarta to make product to sell or do I need to buy a family member a new pair of shoes for school or pay that speeding ticket or pay the county/state business licensing fee or make a health plan payment?

15. Debt. Best to go into self-employment debt free or there is a extremely high chance to becoming overwhelmed with bills and responsibly quickly as knifemaking supplies add up fast and the house payment or property taxes are magically due all at the same time. This is just supplies not to include trying to set up a shop with initial cost out of pocket.

16. Unemployment. Generally, self-employed business owners are considered “unemployed” and because of that we have little or no back-up in case of emergency. So, unlike our counterparts in the job market of employers & employees/companies, if we can’t work for some reason, there is no getting unemployment checks for 6 month or a year while we look for another job. . Being a fulltime knifemaker is a sink or swim proposition self reliant on your own determination to make it a success.

17. Jack of all Trades. Knifemaking is more than just actually making knives, you have to figure out how to run a business, how to make money, how to ship and receive, how to deal with the IRs, how to have good customer relations, how to fix things, know the basics of computers, marketing, phone skills, designing and drafting, CAD work, basic machining skills, planning and juggling various non-knifemaking tasks at once is a learning curve that must be factored in.

18. Lawyer. Wise to have available legal representation and funds for it. What happens if that knife you named the “Undertaker” on a macho whim is actually is used in a crime/defense by someone and now your being called into court to explain to the court why you named it with such aggressive name?

19. Insurance. Do you have business insurance on top of all the other insurance that your currently carry?

20. Retirement. Being a fulltime maker and self-employed now it is your responsibility to contribute to your own retirement fund/IRA since no one else/employer is doing it for you. Is that something you can do on a regular basis along with al the other financial responsibilities? Otherwise, there won’t be much to receive once you want to retire. I have pretty come to peace with the fact that I’ll be grinding until the end.

21. Vacation……LOL! What is that?

Hope this helps not to discourage, but to give an outline of what is ahead and to think and prepare for. Take it seriously, buckle down for the long haul and it can be done.:thumbup:

Nose to the grindstone.

 

[Alpha Knife Supply]

Excellent post Shane! :thumbup:

Chuck

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

17+ years of making knives 9 years of being full time, this is my humble perspective and insight.

1. Knifemaking has real health risks. Grinding steel, manmade and natural handle materials adhered with exotic epoxies creates nasty particulates. Even with great dust collecting set ups and living in your respirator, inhalation is unavoidable over long term. Many things that knifemakers use/grind also get absorbed through the skin also like acetone, chromium, aluminum, ect….. I think I have a developed a allergic response to G-10 after all these years.

2. Taxes. Being self-employed/ business owner means you pay your taxes out of pocket via estimated quarterlies, you get to write a nice fat check to Uncle Sam. 4 times a year $$$$. If you actually happen to make any sort of slim profit over the estimated tax for that year, be prepared to pay more on top of what you all ready paid. Good luck getting refunds. Many people run under the table, and many friends and fellow makers are always ready and eager to give you tax "advice". But if you don’t want a letter or a knock at the door down the road from the IRS, and end up like Wesley Snipes, I suggest investing in a solid CPA and be ready to a take a bruising. Audits are stomach churning. Keep it honest, as this is truly the best policy, you don’t want it to come back and bite you in the ass years down the line.

3. Health insurance. Absolutely vital. You will have to purchase your own health insurance, $$$. Or if your fortunate enough to have a spouse that can add you to their plan is the best.

4. Injury. If you suffer an injury or illness that prevents you from working even a few days then your screwed as there is no one there to take up the slack or make knives for you to fall back on. That means no motorcycles, no bicycles, no ice skating, generally no risky or irresponsible behavior to put your flow of production in jeopardy. Bottom line, no output of product means no income.

5. Divorce. Many people suffer a divorce, which in general is not really ever planned. if that happens, any life line to that person that you need to stay afloat in knifemaking is severed, meaning no more additional income or health insurance, possible child support and alimony that you may have to pay out and loss property/house/shop and therefore if your knifemaking business if not self sufficient it will be difficult to be able to recover from that blow. Being a knifemaker and self-employed can strain relationships and your spouse/partner has to be understanding and behind you and have a plan. I lost my marriage over knifemaking.

6. Income. In general, income from knifemaking is spotty and unreliable. Most of society is so conditioned to get a paycheck every week or 2 on the nose. Being self-employed just throw that concept out the window. There may be weeks to months where you have nothing monetary coming in as you prepare knives to get done, waiting on steel, waiting on sheaths, waiting on payment from customers, machinery breakdowns long list of hiccups that interrupt money flow constantly. As we all know knifemaking requires much time and effort even when you already have established skills and products to peddle. That is why one of the goals/grails of individual knifemakers is to strive for consistency in income. Being the only wage earner in a family will be tough.

7. Hobbies that become your job. You will need to live, eat and breath your work to succeed for years. 24/7. Your hobby now is a career and new rules now apply. You just can’t make knives when you feel like it for a few hours every other weekend now you must make knives everyday to keep product rolling, to feed your kids and keep the bills paid. Now it is work. Playtime is over.

8. Sustainability. For any business to succeed you need hard absolute long term goals and direction. Without out a clear direction, ambition, drive, forethought, tenacity, perseverance, lack of consistency in quality your business could wobble. Constantly improving your skills over time, having consistent quality and craftsmanship, being innovative, getting publicity and exhibiting good customer relations will help you become successful while building a solid customer base may take years to achieve. Building a customer base is vital to having long term sustainability and longevity in this business.

9. Motivation. A big enemy of knifemakers. Linked to the dreaded “burnout” Self-employed also means being self-motivated for year after year, is a key to success. Distractions for self-employed people are the bane of the concept. Sacrifice and self discipline are crucial. You have to treat it like a job and a business and set yourself in a schedule and pattern and to eliminate distractions that may pull you from working, like Video games, family, yard work, gym, computers ect….

10. Product. Making knives people actually want to buy.

11. Dirty. Knifemaking is dirty, dingy work. Does your shop have heat or air conditioning? Summers and winters can be harsh with no climate control. Most only see the end result of our hard work, a cool and beautiful knife. The actual making of the knife is not so glamorous and is rather boring and beats the crap out of your hands and back.

12. Alone. Long hours of working alone with no adulations and listings to the radio, so if you’re a social butterfly this may be hard and also distracting (see motivation)

13. Dependants. Do you have a family that depends on your income to stay afloat? If so, this will be a challenge.

14. Frugal. Tighten the belt and learn to like Top Ramen…every day. :barf: Let’s see do I need to order grinding belts, steel, Micarta to make product to sell or do I need to buy a family member a new pair of shoes for school or pay that speeding ticket or pay the county/state business licensing fee or make a health plan payment?

15. Debt. Best to go into self-employment debt free or there is a extremely high chance to becoming overwhelmed with bills and responsibly quickly as knifemaking supplies add up fast and the house payment or property taxes are magically due all at the same time. This is just supplies not to include trying to set up a shop with initial cost out of pocket.

16. Unemployment. Generally, self-employed business owners are considered “unemployed” and because of that we have little or no back-up in case of emergency. So, unlike our counterparts in the job market of employers & employees/companies, if we can’t work for some reason, there is no getting unemployment checks for 6 month or a year while we look for another job. . Being a fulltime knifemaker is a sink or swim proposition self reliant on your own determination to make it a success.

17. Jack of all Trades. Knifemaking is more than just actually making knives, you have to figure out how to run a business, how to make money, how to ship and receive, how to deal with the IRs, how to have good customer relations, how to fix things, know the basics of computers, marketing, phone skills, designing and drafting, CAD work, basic machining skills, planning and juggling various non-knifemaking tasks at once is a learning curve that must be factored in.

18. Lawyer. Wise to have available legal representation and funds for it. What happens if that knife you named the “Undertaker” on a macho whim is actually is used in a crime/defense by someone and now your being called into court to explain to the court why you named it with such aggressive name?

19. Insurance. Do you have business insurance on top of all the other insurance that your currently carry?

20. Retirement. Being a fulltime maker and self-employed now it is your responsibility to contribute to your own retirement fund/IRA since no one else/employer is doing it for you. Is that something you can do on a regular basis along with al the other financial responsibilities? Otherwise, there won’t be much to receive once you want to retire. I have pretty come to peace with the fact that I’ll be grinding until the end.

21. Vacation……LOL! What is that?

Hope this helps not to discourage, but to give an outline of what is ahead and to think and prepare for. Take it seriously, buckle down for the long haul and it can be done.:thumbup:

Nose to the grindstone.

Wow, how can something so concise be so long? Because there is a lot to it. That is one of the best posts I've read here. I'm self employed and am doing okay at it and there was still a lot there that I hadn't considered.

 

[Fiddleback]

I make living making knives. Now, my wife has a career as well, and her career produces our health insurance. Without that, this would never have been an option for full time work. I do what Mr. Russell was talking about. I work from 4:30 AM to whenever the daily goals are finished. If I miss goal any one day, there are no knives, and no revenue that week. If I take one day off, it costs me a weeks revenue. I love my job, its like I fell into my calling. I'm never board, and for the most part, don't dread the hard work. I am ready for warmer months though. I don't heat the shop.

Thankfully, I finally found something I'm OK at, that I love doing. Only a debilitating injury could make me quit. And then, I'd be lost. Knives seem to be my purpose. I have this recurring dream. I'm sitting in a white room across a cheap folding table from Jesus. He is looking over my knives, and he is obviously unimpressed. He tells me that he gave me this drive, and he is really underwhelmed at how I have used His great gift. My father, who is a very religious man, laughed his head off when I told him about the dream. I've always marveled that my knives have sold so well. It was a supreme blessing, because I really hated my previous career.

... Yes and no.

One good thing is that you never have to worry about getting laid off or fired... LOL

Haha. Thats how I went full time.

Damn, I must be doing it wrong, here I am making a living at it...

I always thought you had it nailed. I've been patterning a lot of what I do after your business. Now you're saying you got it wrong? Thanks!

 

[hardingknives]

I dont make knives because I have to, I make knives because I HAVE TO. I dont plan on becoming rich at it, but if I can keep the wolf from the door I'm happy. At 38 I'm sure I will have to work a crappy hated job until I reach my early 60's before I can go full time maker.

Chad Harding

 

[Fiddleback]

Thats how I felt until the layoff.

 

[NickWheeler]

I want to thank Shane for such an articulate, open, and honest post... :thumbup:

I think that is quite simply THE BEST post I have ever seen on the forums regarding the nitty gritty details of full time knife making.


I still feel EXTREMELY fortunate to be doing knives full time.... but I am very aware of all the points that Shane made.

Anyone thinking about going into knife making full time, should read Shane's words very carefully. It can be done! But it is a tough, gritty road, and one that many folks would not enjoy the reality of, as much as the idea of.


Thank you Shane!

 

[Chuck Gedraitis Knives]

Great post Shane, it should become a sticky for all those who ask the question about becoming full time.

Knife making is not a matter of life and death,
It's more important than that.

 

[fingerjonsin]

Keep doing what you love with that passion, God obviously gave the passion and if you work hard as if for Him and not men then it makes life worth living and meaningful, its biblical Andy. God bless bro i love your knives, i dont have one yet but hopefully one day i'll drop the dough for one lol. I really like that G10 orange scale bushcrafter in cpm154, i want something stainless that won't corrode on me and not have to worry about maintainence. Keep on keepin on!!

 

[69_knives]

A good theory, I believe I read it here, I do not recall the original poster...

"double your prices, get half the number of orders = do half the work, get the same income."

 

[Zidfeldts]

As long as there are top quality knives available for less money than I make before noon I will continue to search the makers forums for the next great maker. I am just glad that so many of you guys love what you do so much; I don't think you can put a price on that.