It followed me home (Part 2)

the difference between a moving quench versus a direst quench is the metal is exposed to more cold water or oil, being MORE "brutal" than a direct quench. the direct quench would sit in one area and heat up the water. this would only make a very minute difference in cooling times though

in theory the only difference you could make with quench technique is the speed. a fast quench would put the steel under a TON of stress whereas warping may be more common with a slow quench.

i think the real reason the temper line's are curved is to eliminate soft spots when the axe is inevitably bananad out over time. with a flat temper, the heel and toe would be out of temper and it would creep down the belly as the years go by.
 
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A rocking quench system would be easy now in the days of robotics but would have been much more difficult 70 years ago.

Was thinking more of a parallel set of "clamps", each holding a head, and that could be lowered and rocked as a single "unit".
 
the difference between a moving quench versus a direst quench is the metal is exposed to more cold water or oil, being MORE "brutal" than a direct quench. the direct quench would sit in one area and heat up the water.

in theory the only difference you could make with quench technique is the speed. a fast quench would put the steel under a TON of stress whereas warping may be more common with a slow quench.

i think the real reason the temper line's are curved is to eliminate soft spots when the axe is inevitably bananad out over time. with a flat temper, the heel and toe would be out of temper and it would creep down the belly as the years go by.

Interesting!
 
I was looking at a photo of the temper line in a Plumb the other day. It showed a curve similar in shape to the bit. A few weeks ago we were trying to think of a way to get a curved quench line in a one piece steel axe (the surface of the liquid quenchant would be a flat plane). I think I might have the answer. Uneven transfer of heat back into the quenched zone. The thicker center of the axe holds more heat and it transfers further back into the bit removing temper.

It's a theory. I'd like to hear other blacksmith's thoughts on this.

Square_peg,i know that we all Know what we mean,but too often we do so throw terms about,it gets weird if one actually tries to Think it through...

So,HT consists of 2 parts-Quench,or Hardening;and Tempering,or Drawing temper,the follow up process to Draw down the hardness to the necessary level.

The Quench converts the structure into let's say(more or less )Martensite.OK?

Tempering subsequently dissolves some of Martensite back into Pearlite (or whatever,cementite+ferrite,here unimportant).

So IF(and i'm afraid i here challenge that) it is indeed the Martensitic structure that gives the edge of a given axe it's color contrast...Then lets forget about Tempering,as tempering only Subtracts from that,making that all Less.

Basque smith in the video does not do the Differential Quench,as you (and Phantomknives a few posts later)seem to imply-he does a Differential Heating.

So,his Quench-line would indeed follow the curve or whatever he Austenised by his whatever-shaped Heating.(the rest,the unheated portion would not convert to any other structure,so any contrast,however hypothetical,is out).

You're absolutely right in that the Tempering speed,and shape of it's running front,would be determined by the shape of the mass,but as above.Temper plays NO role here*

In Theory,one CAN do as you say-heat the entire mass,and Quench-differentially.It is done,by some,and does indeed leave a contrasting color differential.
But,again:It's the opposite,as the Martensitic structure would most likely appear whitish...(also,again,i say "probably","most likely" and other such oblique terms,as it doesn't do to challenge these issues with undue confidence...these are deep waters..).

I'd humbly propose a counter-experiment:On an axe with similar "temper-line" visually but perhaps not as dear to you...With a file,file off a few thou's worth under the blade,where the transition crosses from one side to another,(where it'd be least visible).
IF it is indeed a weld,on a freshly-filed surface you'll see it very plainly:The edge(higher C)alloy will appear mirror-Shiny,while the lower-C body would remain visibly duller.(that is the function of light refraction-the denser alloy files to a different texture,refracting light differently from the softer alloy).

* the man in the video does a so-called an Auto-,or a blacksmith's Temper,not something recommended to anyone with any less experience with a particular alloy+particular circumstances ,all of it remaining very steady over the years...

** agitating work in quenchant is not done by everyone.Personally,i NEVER agitate work in quench(and so don't many others).It is done,presumably,to dispell the possible vapor jacket,vapor,especially steam,being Very different from liquid,and Insulator in it's quality vs Conductor.(space between molecules ruins conductivity).
However,vapor is better to be taken care of by proper viscosity + temperature,and possibly surfactants for water...One's not fast enough to do an effective job by motion anyway.But,to each ...et c.
 
I’m tempted to take it apart for closer look.

Agent_H,that's a standard,modern pike-pole(i've got one exactly like that,bought mail-order from some Oregon hardware store...Around here,you never go out on the River after wood without one...it's a right-hand tool...it really don't hurt for it to Always be in the boat...).
It has a coarse,ACME thread in there,and i seem to remember it's right...The wooden plug is swaged into aluminum,and the pike-pole end is screwed into a hole in it...Then it all swells in the water/weather,so may be tight....

You can remount it in a classier,ash or pine or spruce pole,but you just can't beat that ugly,no-charizma Al for lightness and strengh!!!:)
 
About that unidentified stamp of a backwards capital B with an underline, I noticed yesterday the same stamp on my new splitting wedge from BARCO (supposedly made in Pennsylvania). One side was just stamped something like WEAR SAFETY GOGGLES, and the other side was stamped USA and AF and that backwards capital B with an underline.

...a hatchet head...raised lip around cutting edge... Makers marks appear to be 2 asterisks or X X on right side at hammer side, with a 3 underneath, then a backwards capital B with an underline. Weight is 1 pound 3 oz...
 
Agent_H,that's a standard,modern pike-pole(i've got one exactly like that,bought mail-order from some Oregon hardware store...Around here,you never go out on the River after wood without one...it's a right-hand tool...it really don't hurt for it to Always be in the boat...).
It has a coarse,ACME thread in there,and i seem to remember it's right...The wooden plug is swaged into aluminum,and the pike-pole end is screwed into a hole in it...Then it all swells in the water/weather,so may be tight....

You can remount it in a classier,ash or pine or spruce pole,but you just can't beat that ugly,no-charizma Al for lightness and strengh!!!:)

I almost spent $20 on a nice vintage 8'-9' limb trimmer today with hardware holes 3/4 the way up to do just that. It's been the same place 2 years and how bad do I need a pike pole?... wow, this is weird, suddenly pretty bad ;)

Probably would need a good blacksmith of some sort to make a decent collar for it... Nothing wrong with "cold-bodging" on my own, right? (that will be ugly, trust me)

Our forum might be the wrong place to "Talk Pike" though...
 
I almost spent $20 on a nice vintage 8'-9' limb trimmer today with hardware holes 3/4 the way up to do just that. It's been the same place 2 years and how bad do I need a pike pole?... wow, this is weird, suddenly pretty bad ;)

Probably would need a good blacksmith of some sort to make a decent collar for it... Nothing wrong with "cold-bodging" on my own, right? (that will be ugly, trust me)

Our forum might be the wrong place to "Talk Pike" though...
Weird that you'd say that. I found 'my' old pike pole at the back of the garage yesterday (darn, it's only 16 foot long) and discovered that dad had removed the pike end somewhere along the way and had artfully replaced it with strategically bent nails in order to better hang (and take down) the annual Christmas lights.
 
Why,Agent_H,couldn't we legitimately start a "Who Else Uses a Pike-pole?" thread?:)

In actuality,Everyone needs a pike-pole,even people that are not in and out of the boat the way that i am.I'll tell you why.

When falling trees,a pike-pole can be a life saver.Especially complete with a stout assistant to wield it.

Even a modest 10-footer gives one and incredible arm of moment:Jabbed into the tree that is being felled,it can make a Lot of difference as far as reliably laying the tree in the required direction.Also,being forewarned if that tree is beginning to go wrong in some way.

Similarly the Peavey(another tool that is always in my boat on any wood-related trip).When things DO go wrong,and the tree gets hung up,a peavey on it's base reliably dislodges it,by rotating it back and forth,to slide it past whatever interference.

I see some particularly sexy peavies pass through this very thread....Makes me very envious...I've been a peavey fancier a Long,long time...they've saved my sorry ass again and again...
 
Lawsuits - manufacturer is covering themselves. I could see someone using a SB as a wedge and striking the poll with a sledge and splintering off a piece of steel. Stranger things have happened. I caught my older brother doing just that with a nice Keen Kutter SB michigan. Pretty close to ruining the axe - the eye hadn't started to fold yet, but the poll is mushroomed out and you can see where it had splintered. I relieved him of it for repair purposes and I think have convinced him that that is not the way to use an axe.
 
I see some particularly sexy peavies pass through this very thread....Makes me very envious...I've been a peavey fancier a Long,long time...they've saved my sorry ass again and again...

Well, hello there ;):

Rolling by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr

This followed me home today. Handle is ruined like 90% of them I find. Handles are harder to come by. It's the one-piece cone/spike style that is folded over (blacksmith can say what that would be). Painted red probably a few years ago. A little careful power drilling with a steel brush and an appropriately sized washer. "It will roll" - a Forged in Fire spin-off.

Let me know where to send it :thumbsup:

That same old coot has a Kelly Perfect framing hammer on an octagonal handle sitting in a pile outside and some nice logging chain hooks - little bigger than the Peavey ones...
You know, Junk.

*Edit- KellyPerfect "claw" hammer. Repeat customers willing to listen to a guy's story for a while get a discount- right?
 
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Not hard ;), I just walked outside and grabbed one for this cant hook:





Bob

That is cool to me. More than once over. That is kind of what it should be about.

I have some of that Cherry long enough that is pretty rough (knots n' waves) but might be "ok" to run in a cant hook. Not going to hit it like an axe. More of a load bearing pry tool. Grain orientation might be important. You twist a bit but most of it a push. I've only moved downed stuff on the ground with them. Never used one on a boat so that might be a little different?

I haven't re-handled one before but I sure seem to complain a lot about it...
 
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Slicks, chisels, hammers, Rockaway? patterns, National patterns, Maine wedge double bits, mauls, hewing hatchets/big hewers, curved lipped ship adzes?

You can do better than that.

Don't bring a knife to an axe fight. C'mon....
 
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I also have the last three years Christmas' trees stripped and drying. Burn or build. You never know, right?
 
Slicks, chisels, hammers, Rockaway? patterns, National patterns, Maine wedge double bits, mauls, hewing hatchets/big hewers, curved lipped ship adzes?

You can do better than that.

Don't bring a knife to an axe fight. C'mon....
Hey there is always tomorrow.
 
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