Just recieved this e-mail.....

Originally posted by Pappy
Our freedoms are only of true value to those who are willing to die for them.
Click to expand...

Well said, Pappy. How many times have you heard said that one should capitulate to threats of force because "nothing they can take from you is worth dying for."

I propose that my dignity and self respect are certainly worth dying for, as well as the freedom, dignity and self respect of my family and fellow citizens. When we refuse to stand up to evil, we are not only selling ourselves down the river, but also our society.

The things that are worth dying for are those very same things that are worth living for.
 
:D

I do believe Nevada MUST be a fine place to visit judging by our moderators that reside there:)
 
I do believe Nevada MUST be a fine place to visit judging by our moderators that reside there>>>

Well...I like it...but I'm a desert rat. Try the Carson Sink for desolation. Note the, "Lonliest Highway in America" is in Nevada.

Or how about this bumper sticker/tourist guide for Nevada:

"Nevada; just add water."



munk
 
Originally posted by Rusty
I kept from posting until now to cool down. It hasn't worked well enough yet.

I do want to thank those who tried to defuse the situation. You are very, very good guys.

To those who called **** on his actions, you may only be very good guys, but then again your names have been mentally noted as the ones I'd want to cover my back.

I agree that the issue is not freedom of speech but **** couching his deliberately provocative and offensive activity behind the issues of freedom of speech and fairness.

As simply put as I can - those who do not abide by, and who work to subvert the social conventions that are in place, don't deserve the protections afforded by those conventions.

Karma will take care of the matter, just not nearly quickly enough for my taste. To my mind **** is akin to a maoist, and should be dealt with as such. Now I'll close before I start having too much fun.
Click to expand...

Well said little brother. I like the use of the **** in place of any name I have used as it really does put **** in the proper view since he is now on my ignore list.

If Bro had of asked me what I would have done or would if I were in his shoes instead of asking me this way
"Looking at things from my point of view what would you suggest I do?"
Click to expand...
my answer would be to ban ****, and not for any reason other than the trolling.
No other reason is needed.
Trolls are banned when ever and where ever they are found on these forums. There are also "Troll Bashers" or as I prefer to call them
"Troll Chasers" on these forums that could have and would have done a much better job at tagging the troll than I did with what help I had that was very much appreciated.
I have enough respect for Bill and the other members on this forum to not call them into the fray.
Had I of done that the flames would have been much, much worse than they were with the end result being the same in that **** is gone.
For now.
There is only one way to deal with a troll.........
 
In Nevada, as Samuel Clemens ( aka Mark Twain ) once said:

"Whiskey is for drinking. Water is for fighting over!"

Traditionally, travelers came down the Humboldt to the Humboldt sink, just northeast of Fallon, then struck out for the Carson sink south and west of Fallon. This was before the Newlands Irrigation Project allowed the creation of Fallon. You made it or you died along the way.

When you understand that in your bones, you understand Nevada as no transplanted Californian mindlessly assuming Las Vegas is Los Angeles East and living off artificially diverted water can.

To us in middle Nevada, adding water leads to adding people. Round here, that's the worst kind of pollution to some of us.
 
This was before the Newlands Irrigation Project allowed the creation of Fallon. You made it or you died along the way.

When you understand that in your bones, you understand Nevada as no transplanted Californian mindlessly assuming Las Vegas is Los Angeles East and living off artificially diverted water can>>>

Tell me more. I spent most my time in the Mojave. If I recall correctly, Nevada is mostly Great Basin desert. I have always, always wanted to climb to the top of those crazy mountain chains running mostly north-southeth in Nevada. What is on top? I figured any green was up there.

Best night sky I ever saw was in Nevada. Haven't seen one since like it in Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana.

There is a mood to desert rats, a sort of look in the eye..this is a little hollywood, but they have a feel about them. Your phrase, 'in the bones' shows me you do know. I love the desert. My beloved Johua tree was taken over by yuppies and film crews in designer clothes. Never saw them in the heat of summer, though.

You must have water availble in the desert same way here in the North you have clothes, sleeping bags, food in case of break down in severe cold. That's good advice for anyone anywhere too.

I remember one more thing about Nevada; 100,000 dollar automobiles going down the road in the middle of nowhere.

munk
 
I don't have much experience with trolls.

But, banning anybody for what they say no matter what it might be is a very difficult thing for me to do (and as a moderator I don't even know if I have the power to ban people) because of my perhaps overzealous philosophy regarding the basic freedoms we enjoy in the country.

Everybody kept saying it wasn't a matter of freedom of speech but to me as moderator that's exactly what it was.

I'm too old to change my philosphy regarding basic freedoms and I'm too old to change my philosphy about defending them no matter what the cost -- even if it comes down to dying for what I believe. I'd rather die free than live otherwise.

But I'm not too old to step down and let Rusty take over as moderator of this forum if my philosophies are such that most consider me unfit to be a moderator. Just let me know.
 
Desert rats can have this in common.

When you stand alone in the middle of what ( falsely ) appears to be nothing, you have two wonderful choices to choose from:

a) You can choose to use the nothingness ( absence of distraction ) to seek the face of God ( in whatever terms you want to use ).

b) You can wait and watch more closely and begin to dicern vastly more life/growth/rhythm than initially meets the eye.

When you do this, a) refers you to b), and b) refers you to a). You may not find what you started to seek, but at the least I usually sense something watching from over my shoulder. Done regularly you experience the contradiction of your insignificance, at the same time you find there is a place, purpose, and value to and for yourself.

If that makes sense to you, would you please explain it to me.
 
Dear Bill: just saw your latest post.

1) I concur with munk.
2) No way am I that dumb. You can keep the headaches. I don't want them.
 
I'm going to guess and I'm generally a pretty good guesser that there are damned few here who have lived in a place where there was NOT free speech. Military doesn't count. Military people can generally say what they want and get away with it -- or worst case get rescued if their mouth gets them in trouble. I've been there, too.

I'm going to give you a couple of little stories.

One of my best pals in Nepal, a Brahmin fellow who managed the Northwest Airline office in Kathmandu years ago, got into a political discussion while sitting around the fireplace in the Tushita where I stayed. He made some disparaging remarks about the royalty and questioned their honesty. Next night about 3AM three or four of the Royal Police kicked down the door of his apartment, took him down to Hanuman Dhoka, broke all the fingers and thumb on his right hand, gave his a good caning, tossed him out into the street along with the warning to keep his mouth shut or next time they wouldn't be so nice to him. Had a hard time doing his job for a month or two since he was right handed.

A reporter made the mistake of writing an article which spoke unfavorably about the dress the queen wore to some function. He got a month in jail with a cup of rice and a cup of water a day with a good caning each day to give him a good appetite.

First time I visited the Royal Dentist we were having a little conversation before he started his work. "How do you like Nepal?" He asked. I said, "I love it but I'd love it more if you didn't have a king and government so corrupt." He dashed over and closed the door to the waiting room, came back shaking and white. In a whisper he said, "Don't ever say things like that! You could get us both killed!"

That's what it's like when you DON'T have free speech.

When you've always had it you take it for granted. It's only when you don't have it you realize how very, very precious it is.

When you don't defend everybody's right to say what they want to say no matter how much you may disagree with it you are opening a door which can lead to the scenarios you see above.

Think long and hard.

Perhaps you can now understand why I'm so zealous about our personal freedoms.
 
Rusty,
I logged 20,000 miles on a new truck the first year. My work was a half block away from me and I rode a bike. The desert proper was an hour away.

Does what you wrote make sense? Yes!.. but not phrased as initially, as an either/or. I don't look for the face of God, it comes to me as I wander. Sometimes I'll just sit by some creosote, study the sand at my hands. Or a rock. That's what you said; notice the small things, the life around you, and the Big things will come. Rocks are good. Lizards are great. I wonder if you got the Desert Spiny? Great lizard. And the desert...seeing the life unnoticed above and by merely traveling through. What you said about water I used to say about Portland; too much water, life was too easy. Water rich, I used to sneer.

I would go on moon runs..hikes under a full moon. I came to a place, a little natural rock cairn, off the beaten path, no reason for anyone to have come here. There was nothing much there. I thought it was great. I told an artist friend about it, about life and death is a small cup of rocks while the rest of us motored or walked by miles away. She was so moved she actually painted a picture of the scene from my description. It's hanging in my house. My wife doesn't trust it... Did I mention the artist was an old girl friend?

In fact, the desert brought me here. Someone knew how i wandered around alone all the time in the white water district below San Bernardino peaks. (not far desert) Lots of meth labs there. convinced me to carry a gun...started the process which changed my life.

I could go on forever about wasteland. How I got sober. Found I believed in God whether I wanted to or not.

There's a Great Heart wandering about in the lands other men ignore. It's just easier to see there.

sorry for going on,

munk
 
Sounds like we understand each other. Uncle's a desert rat too.
 
Beautiful and honest stuff, Munk.

Studying the sand dunes in Death Valley under a full moon is a spiritual experience.
 
Wind is blowing today....
Some of the Mojave is headed this way.
Some of out here is heading to west Texas.
 
munk,
Great thoughts and well said. I have no real experiance with the desert. I have found the same beautiful face of the world deep in the woods of Maine, alone. I tend to love spending time alone in the woods of Maine. Sit under a tree and watch all that happens around you. A tiny shrew runs over your feet, never even noticing my presence. Squirrels everywhere playing and hoarding nuts for winter. A lone hawk hunts over head. Bees flying from blossam to blossam.
I do not think I am ever closer to God than when I am alone in the woods, letting events wash over me and sort of enveloping me, tying me into the loop of nature that man has unfornatuly isolated himself from. It also gives one time for introspection into your oun self and values. Man needs to do these things, or we become isolated from the world that is our mother. I better stop now before I start to ramble on about my beliefs. Listening to the thoughts of you fellow forumites makes me more and more want to meet all of you one day!
 
I've had the same experiences with squirrels and mice. Gopher snakes too.

Deep woods are a different world. People used to the desert and prarrie sometimes do not feel entirely comfortable in them. The loss of sight. Feeling closed in. I still like them, but to my surprise after many years, can feel it too.

I know people go to the wilds for solace and inspiration, if only a few days a year. I've been fortunate in living close to or in them. I wanted to say when the honeymoon is over things get interesting. It is you out there, in here, with ???? And all the beauty and fascinating animals in the world cannot change that. If it is dry inside, it is dry outside. Jesus did not go to the lotus garden to fast for 40 days and 40 nights.

Dumb people like me can hold on to emptiness a long time. And you know, it just is. There's a lot of is; not grand, striking, God in a chariot....just is.

In Rusty's earlier post he had the right words. Things can circle back and surprise you, even when jaded.



munk
 
Munk,

Nicely put. ... I'm a forest person myself. I can find the same type of interaction with the woods as you describe about the desert. The sound of the breeze blowing through the tree tops, the squirrels cussing you out as you stand beneath their tree, the tapping of a woodpecker searching for lunch, the crunching sound of deer hoofs as the dig into the ground and bolt when startled (happens a lot out here in the Black Hills. ... follow usually by the sound of my dogs trying to drag me in pursuit. ... attached at the wrists).

Somehow, no matter how depressed I am, I can always get going again by taking a walk in the woods. It makes me afraid to leave them really.

Alan
 
Originally posted by munk
Tell me more. I spent most my time in the Mojave. If I recall correctly, Nevada is mostly Great Basin desert. I have always, always wanted to climb to the top of those crazy mountain chains running mostly north-southeth in Nevada. What is on top? I figured any green was up there.
munk
Click to expand...

Come on down sometime in the summer. There are front and back "roads" up Mount Grant, which was/is sacred to the local Paiutes.

On the backside I'm told up a different mountain partway is a dead tree that is still standing. It was charred all the way around and up to the top. And not from lightning. Seems that some brass army buttons were found at the base of the tree. Indians apparently burned an army uniform there - without bothering to remove it from it's occupant.

I'm also told there used to be a Shoshone tribe in the area. If you know where to look back there you can see where the tribe was wiped out by the Paiutes.

Aurora ( ghost town ) is up there too, along with a bunch of other stuff to see. If you ever make it munk ( or Bill Paxton or... ) stop in and we'll try to make a trip.
 
Bill,

I am an ex military man and I wish there were more people in the world who followed your life philosophy. Keep up the good work and fine words.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top