Just wanted to let the folks at SOG know....

[eneyman]

well after these 2 threads of community feedback, hopefully SOG puts out an awesome 2011 catalog

I get the feeling that this 2010 line of products was decided on strictly based on the shi**y state of the economy and not innovation and quality, which should have been SOG's priority regardless of higher costs to run a factory and business.

Anybody else think that SOG took a major hit last year in profits and had to turn to this strategy of cheap knock offs as a result?

 

[Wunderbar]

I still like SOG. I got a benchmade Pika that I think was almost identical to a Spyderco in look,function and quality.

Which Spyderco?

 

[Kaizen1]

Looks like I'll be taking back a statement I made earlier. I didn't think that the new "Fielder" model resembled Bob Lum's work to the extent to call it a knock off. Yeah, I'll take that back. It appears to be another blatant copy:

 

[Josh K]

Looks like I'll be taking back a statement I made earlier. I didn't think that the new "Fielder" model resembled Bob Lum's work to the extent to call it a knock off. Yeah, I'll take that back. It appears to be another blatant copy:

Similar, but you have different locks, different handles, different handle shapes, different opening, different pivot. Looks similar, but I can't call it a copy.

 

[Cotherion]

Similar, but you have different locks, different handles, different handle shapes, different opening, different pivot. Looks similar, but I can't call it a copy.

I'd have to say similar handle outline and similar blade outline. Perhaps not a design copy but artistic copy as in copying the feel of a blade

Like father and son. Though one is young and the other old, there is a definite resemblance.

 

[Kaizen1]

I'd have to say similar handle outline and similar blade outline. Perhaps not a design copy but artistic copy as in copying the feel of a blade

Like father and son. Though one is young and the other old, there is a definite resemblance.

Right, and that particular handle shape is unique to Bob Lum's work. The resemblance is way too close to ignore.

 

[greater]

The Blade looks similar to the Bob Lum Stalker pictured but thats as far as it goes if you take a closer look the grind on the Stalker much higher and goes almost all the way to the spine (very nice by the way.) The grind on the Fielder looks like a typical hollow grind that only reaches half way up. The false edge looks similar but thats it.

They are two different machines entirely they only look similar. The two are not alike enough for one to be called a copy in my opinion.

 

[Cotherion]

The Blade looks similar to the Bob Lum Stalker pictured but thats as far as it goes if you take a closer look the grind on the Stalker much higher and goes almost all the way to the spine (very nice by the way.) The grind on the Fielder looks like a typical hollow grind that only reaches half way up. The false edge looks similar but thats it.

They are two different machines entirely they only look similar. The two are not alike enough for one to be called a copy in my opinion.

I'd make a killin then by taking a sebbie, convex grind it, add another backspacer pin and maybe perhaps sharpen a false edge on it.

Do not look at the differences people intentionally put in to claim originality or to avoid being called copycat. Look upon the elements to the blade that make one special. True one does not hold the right forever for technological advancements but the style of the blade/folder (especially for one as special as this Lum) should be respected. The manufacturer perhaps won't be sued in a court of law but it'll lose in the eyes of the people who respect a reasonable amount of originality (note I did not just say originality, nowadays everything is influenced but to what degree?).

Basically I'm saying you can put horns on an orange but you can't call it a cow.

 

[Fletcher Knives]

If Chris does comment in this thread, please keep in mind that the poor guy gets a lot of flak and he just works there. He's not the one who chooses what designs they're using or what goes to production. He does try his best to convey what customers think and want to the big wigs, but he's not a bullseye for hate mail. Just keep that in mind guys. I think he gets a lot more earfuls of crap than he deserves. He's one of the few people at SOG who interface with the customers and actually try to make sure they're happy and taken care of.

 

[mmmotorcycle]

Similar, but you have different locks, different handles, different handle shapes, different opening, different pivot. Looks similar, but I can't call it a copy.

That handle shape is distinctly Bob Lum. There is no mention of that design feature in the description. It is a terrible insult to not honor Lum's name...... whereas, a company like Benchmade does their Onslaught with Lum's name attached. Or the Dejavoo and they both use that flared handle design common to many Lum folders. With the Onslaught, the lock is different and the handle materials certainly are not the same but the STILL give Lum credit. So, I have to call BS on your fairly inaccurate assessment.

SOG made a HUGE mistake by ripping off the design of a truly legendary knife maker. It saddens me more than it angers me that SOG would sink to such a low. It's one thing to copy a well respected knife manufacturer but pissing on the name of a world renown knifemaker who has just recently passed away.....

 

[Kaizen1]

If Chris does comment in this thread, please keep in mind that the poor guy gets a lot of flak and he just works there. He's not the one who chooses what designs they're using or what goes to production. He does try his best to convey what customers think and want to the big wigs, but he's not a bullseye for hate mail. Just keep that in mind guys. I think he gets a lot more earfuls of crap than he deserves. He's one of the few people at SOG who interface with the customers and actually try to make sure they're happy and taken care of.

I hate SOG's decision to produce knock offs, but I agree with this 100%:thumbup:. Chris should be spoken to as someone who's just doing his job and people shouldn't talk to him like he owns the company. When I did customer service, I couldn't believe how many people couldn't tell the difference between customer service and the decision makers of the company.

 

[Kaizen1]

That handle shape is distinctly Bob Lum. There is no mention of that design feature in the description. It is a terrible insult to not honor Lum's name...... whereas, a company like Benchmade does their Onslaught with Lum's name attached. Or the Dejavoo and they both use that flared handle design common to many Lum folders. With the Onslaught, the lock is different and the handle materials certainly are not the same but the STILL give Lum credit. So, I have to call BS on your fairly inaccurate assessment.

I have to agree here. You really have to ignore the obvious to not see that it's a knock off.

 

[Joshua J.]

Looks like I'll be taking back a statement I made earlier. I didn't think that the new "Fielder" model resembled Bob Lum's work to the extent to call it a knock off. Yeah, I'll take that back. It appears to be another blatant copy:

Now just imagine the response if SOG had actually licensed Bob Lum's design.
We'd be talking about a resurgence instead of a downfall.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I hate SOG's decision to produce knock offs, but I agree with this 100%:thumbup:. Chris should be spoken to as someone who's just doing his job and people shouldn't talk to him like he owns the company. When I did customer service, I couldn't believe how many people couldn't tell the difference between customer service and the decision makers of the company.

Yup--the poor guy is just a messenger! If anything I wouldn't be surprised if he's under orders NOT to speak on this matter--I'm sure corporate wants to keep the spotlight off of this as much as possible.

 

[Steelcore]

You see what you want to see, buy what you want to buy. I have a selection of both SOG (Trident, Pentagon, Spec elite) and Spydercos (endura/enduraSS, police). Also, I have a buddy who is a dealer for SOG, so I get them at the price I'd want to pay.

"I've defended SOG on more than a few occaisions as I don't think their products get the respect they deserve"

Same here

 

[Cotherion]

One blade being near identical I can accept as a coincidence. There is too many however.

Almost as if they (SOG) hired someone new to design their new line and the fella just decided to grab a couple of designs out in the market and copied to his/her satisfaction.

Respect is earned not given. You don't earn respect for grabbing other's designs. I can just easily open a new knife brand and I'll sell slightly altered versions of popular folders.

You see what you want to see. True. However you also don't see what you don't want to see. I too have a Spec Elite II, Pentagon Elite II, Titanium Vision and Vulcan and have defended them many times before. Mostly defended them from attacks saying their arc lock is an axis copy. In that case the design was different and the load capacity was larger for the Arc. Id say it was Axis influenced but not totally copied. But I am disappointed now. What they did is obvious. There is no need for excuses.

I could easily grab the sebbie design and made it a lockback, lowered the grind a little, add a backspacer, drill a Cotherion-hole (not Spydie-hole!) where the hole is notched (but not SOG notched, mine is twice as long! Not the same ). Where does this end? Where do we draw the line?

 

[dl351]

I've been a long time SOG fan, owning a Seal 2000, a Tech II, a Pentagon, and a Night Vision. All of those are great and original designs. It seems that the current lineup for 2010 doesn't bring many new ideas to the table. Other than the Pendelum, nothing catches my attention like SOG knives used to. Hopefully this isn't going to be a continuing trend for SOG.

 

[greater]

Okay I have to admit the general shape of the handle and blade looks similar to the Lum Stalker design but I can't ignore all the other differences either.

To me it's borderline and thats in general appearance only I don't think there is enough there for me to simply judge it as a knockoff.

The quality doesn't even look anywhere near that of the Stalker they are just different to me.

 

[Kaizen1]

Okay I have to admit the general shape of the handle and blade looks similar to the Lum Stalker design but I can't ignore all the other differences either.

To me it's borderline and thats in general appearance only I don't think there is enough there for me to simply judge it as a knockoff.

The quality doesn't even look anywhere near that of the Stalker they are just different to me.

I don't think quality should be a consideration since most knock offs are cheap copies.

 

[Chris@SOG]

Hey all

I have taken a brief look through this and some of the other comment threads on the forum. We are aware of the comments and negative opinions of some of our new designs. However, everyone one at SOG has been extremely busy with the SHOT show this past week and had very little time to much of anything that is not show related. That is why I have not posted any sort of response to this issue.

Please give me a chance to read through digest the thoughts and opinions about our new designs. I will have comments addressing all the points sometime early next week when I return to the office.

Thank you for your patience.