Katrina Aftermath

Discussion in 'Himalayan Imports' started by munk, Aug 30, 2005.

  1. Thomas Linton

    Thomas Linton

    Jun 16, 2003
    If you believe that Uncle Sugar always rides to the rescue of the clueless, check into earthquake insurance in California.

    An actuary was on TV last night predicting little chance of flood/wind insurance in NO.

    We shall see.

    But I doubt that His Honor is correct about "a couple of months" to "recover" - a total disconnect with reality akin to the Police Chief precluding use of force to stop looting.
  2. shearer


    Sep 1, 2005
    Would a couple hundred of Gurkha's armed with kukris make any difference in New Orleans.
    I got my first Gelbu special today and if I was looting and see that thing coming ,I think would be headed the other direction
  3. firkin


    Jan 26, 2002
    "If you believe that Uncle Sugar always rides to the rescue of the clueless, check into earthquake insurance in California."

    Don't know quite what you refer to here.

    Some people are willing to build homes in any dumb-azz place, like the sliding hills of Malibu, whether they can get insurance or not. I don't know if people investing in the large metropolitan buildings with discernable large-scale economic impact are willing to build new ones without some form of earthquake insurance. Maybe they are.

    "An actuary was on TV last night predicting little chance of flood/wind insurance in NO."

    Same thing happened after 9-11 re damage attributable to terrorism.

    Don't misunderstand me. I'm not expecting Unk S. to actually "rescue everyone". Or anyone.

    But what happened after 9-11 is that developers in NY city weren't to able get policies. That was seen as an economic impediment, since it was claimed that no new major construction would be undertaken in the city without them.

    So the Fed made an obligation to be insurer of last resort. How this affects existing properities I don't know. I doubt that it extends to individual residences either.

    And the fact the the obligation has been undertaken doesn't mean that it will be be fulfilled. It does mean that taxpayers are on the hook for it though.

    Kinda reminds me of the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation.
  4. Thomas Linton

    Thomas Linton

    Jun 16, 2003
    Sorry. I'm from California. Most are not.

    In 1994, the "Northridge" quake produced an estimated $17-25 billion in property damage (2004 dollars). (How quickly we forget.)

    Private insurance for earthquake damage virtually disappeared. It was written totally out of standard homeowner's policies (except for fire damage due to earthquake) and remains so to this day.

    The California Legislature passed legislation in 1996 designed to force insurers to supply stand-alone earthquake coverage. Trouble was, they could not force selling it at an actuarial loss. As a result, the premiums were regarded as unaffordable. Only about 14% of households have the insurance. 86%, 5,000,000 homes, have none.

    On the grounds that risks were overestimated, the legislature recently ordered reduction of premiums by 22% -- except for the 15% in the areas most at risk.

    Efforts to distort the market by government decree are rarely successful.
  5. firkin


    Jan 26, 2002
    Well, I've lived in California for a while, but I rent, so I'm unfamiliar with home-owner's insurance.

    However it appears that people were/are willing to buy/build homes without earthquake insurance.

    I don't know if that is the case for those building skyscrapers.

    But I think that if a credible case were made that lack of insurance were to actually slow down or prevent new construction, that something similar would happen to what happened with the terrorism insurance.

    Maybe NYC is a "special case" (many who live apparently think so) since most new construction is very large buildings, and there isn't as much of a single residence private home market.

    We'll have to wait and see how much risk folks are willing take in regard to NO.

    I agree about markets and governments, but that doesn't stop them from trying.
  6. munk


    Mar 22, 2002
    They'll get the shipping centers done, anyway.

    Please forgive me, but one of the taglines on my Yahoo news is the Mayor is issueing an SOS because of all the fights and chaos breaking out. As I said before, I don't wish to, but am becoming a little ashamed of NO.

    Sorry. Kismet has it best- I know there are great people working hard.

  7. 37up


    Jun 16, 2002
    Best wishes to our neighbours to the South.

    Let's get a move on, people need help.
  8. DannyinJapan


    Oct 9, 2003
    Anthony "Bud" Williams, 32, of Brisbane, Australia, and two companions took it on themselves to round up foreigners in the crowd.

    "We looked for anyone with a big backpack," he said. "It's mostly people backpacking around."

    They found people from 63 countries, made a list and hoped someone could contact embassies so families could be notified they were safe.

    "Except all the people from Australia request their embassy to send beer," he said.
  9. hawkwind


    Oct 26, 2004
    Surprised to read such things..... Loting and theft by cops....

    But the fact that the place has been known for "public nudity" has nothing to do with outrage of crime and chaos now.

    We call that denial of responsibility. It seems to me that its widespread in US and its taking roots here, even if slowly.

    If you deny the responsibility for ones actions to him, he will never be responsible again.

    It seems to me that officials ****ed right up and for reason that nobody wanted to be responsible for immediate actions for fear of later questioning.

    "Public nudity" has nothing to do with all that. Its interesting how many people doesnt make any difference between true moral and mere cultural mores.

    What would be a problem to escort that Chinook by 1 gunship helicopter and to dispose of ground atacker via .50 cal machinegun! I m sure the word will spread. Its perfectly right to kill a bastard which is shooting at humanitary vehicle and not to do it from fear of media is sad.
    The moment when carnage escalates, theres nothing more to do than to be hard and noncopromise and only army and martial law can do it.

  10. DannyinJapan


    Oct 9, 2003
    Hawkwind, I was trying to allude to something else.
    I didnt want to go into the fact that New Orleans is known to women in the Dallas area as a "high rape probability area"
    Dallas women have been warned OFFICIALLY not to go to New Orleans alone, not to go into certain areas of that city under any circumstances, etc, etc, etc...

    This is not NOW, this is from BEFORE the flooding.
    I guess I should have just said that before..
  11. hawkwind


    Oct 26, 2004
    Understood Dany. Sadly the catastrophe of that magnitude lets all the fear, carnage and violence usually hidden under mask of civilisation surface.
  12. Mr.BadExample


    Sep 11, 2002
    The "girls gone wild" stuff isn't peculiar to New Orleans alone, and that's a tourist thing. The Quarter always felt safe to me, then again I am male. The police presence was always high. Wandering off by yourself in a large city these days is often a bad idea. The fact is, it's a corrupt city that never rebuilt properly after the flood of 1927, and their infrastructure suffered due to the corruption. Look at I-10. It's been reduced to islands and reeds in Pontchartrain. The fishing might get better :)
    I don't defend the looters, but it just goes to show you that civilization is just a thin veneer keeping some people in line. Some folks will do what's right even when no one is watching. The rest... well, watch your back.
  13. munk


    Mar 22, 2002
    Danny, there are parts of very major American city that are 'high rape probability." I don't accept New Orleans as an exception. There is no more, and not much less reason to think this could happen elsewhere. The, 'what did you think, this is New Orleans?" - takes us down a road of denial.

    We got problems. In some quarters there isn't much seperating us from complete breakdown, in a little over 24 hours.

    I wonder how the European press is treating this?

  14. hawkwind


    Oct 26, 2004
    We have constant updates......
  15. hawkwind


    Oct 26, 2004
    And bulvar press treating human misery as a mountain of gold..... :thumbdn:
  16. cliff355


    Apr 19, 2003
  17. shane justice

    shane justice

    May 12, 2003

    My wife went to school at UNO...and lived in Slidell...which is no longer there.

    I had a hard time understanding some of the crime problems...until I heard that they released all of the prisoners from the local jails...because they could not protect them from the weather.

    As far as NO being a high crime city...

    Wendy will tell you....it is. I suppose NO has always been like that...and always will be.

    People are preyed on in a systematic manner. I suppose it would be something like a pride of lions watching wildebeest. They don't advertise the stats...but I think we would all be surprised the number of women who are raped every year during Mardi Gras...and we would be even more shocked to find out how many were unreported.

    Ok, every city in the world can be like this...but I believe NO is particulrly bad.

    I have heard the comments here at home and on-line about people building in dumb ass places...and that's why I don't live there...and why didn't they get the hell out of there?

    Natural questions...

    Just like why the CoE didn't have a better solution...or why FEMA was slow...everybody is pointing a finger away from themselves...but somebody said it here...and I will ask...

    When did we forget to take care of our own business?

    All those folks are looking for somebody else to DO IT!

    Why aren't they dealing with their own....

    I saw the reports...a 68 year old preacher complaining because there was a dead body right there...and there was nobody to take it away...He was pointing out that there were babies sitting and crying all around another corpse?

    As far as I know...he's supposed to be a leader...why didn't he get his folks together and start dealing with his environment.

    There are more examples that we could toss around...and I don't want to undervalue the shock those poor folks were/are in...

    But damn fellas...when did we become such a nation of whiners looking for the GOVT to fix our problems.

    Honestly, if a hundred of us were stuck in the Superdome....we would make a hell of a go of it....

    Snakes, Gators and Rats and pigeons would be on the menu...

    Water would be available form Rube Goldberg above ground survival stills...

    Perimeters would be set...

    Corpses would be covered in state and documented as best as possible...

    GArgage and human waste would be squared away....

    ...and I would bet the sick and needy would be getting all the med care we could provide.

    when supplies did arrive...I would stake my boots that children and women and old folks would get theres before any of the menfolk were chowing down.

    It is easy to feel safe so far away...but I think aobut the people in my circle...and I can't imagine any of you acting the way folks dowmn there are...

    You know...what I really don't get...all those folks...on top of houses and buildings and supermarkets...and not one of them had the common sense to put a hat on...or rig some kind of shelter from the sun....

    Ok...so I am ranting...

    Way back this spring...I got put in this situation. And I posted it here...and I think everybody figured I was a bit nuts....or maybe I over-reacted a bit....

    But there are folks out there who didn't have the sense to fill up a milk jug full of water when this thing was headed there way...

    OK so I will be quiet now...

  18. Yvsa


    May 18, 1999
    Shane, common sense is the least common of all the senses. :shrug: :(

    As to the why.... Look at the history of ancient Rome. When the people started feeding on the government teat they became unable/unwilling to care for themselves.:(
  19. Thomas Linton

    Thomas Linton

    Jun 16, 2003

    ABS, whose employees were second only to AFL-CIO in contributions to Dems in 2004, has THE answer. It's all the fault of "the government."

    Koppel was shouting at a FEMA rep last night. Why didn't the feds evactuate NOLA? "You knew !! there were x people who could ! not ! get !out!!! Why wasn't there a convoy of trucks or flatbeds to get them out?!"

    Why didn't the 101st or the 82d go in to restore order because they would have been faster that the NG MP units being sent in? (IF THEY DID: "Why did you send COMBAT troops into an American city instead of law enforcement. Oh the humanity!")

    I guess Mr K. never heard that there is state and local govs who have primary responsibility. Oh, wait. They're all D's. Sorry. My bad. Must be the feds fault.

    Gee, let's not talk about 1000's of public buses, school and otherwise, sitting under water rather than having been used to evac the poor and old.

    Let's not talk about a police chief saying force would not be used on looters. (And looters shooting at rescue personnel!?)

    Let's not talk about a very tardy evacutoin "suggestion" with no provision for the 112,000 households that do not own vehicles.

    The unspoken subtext to ABS Nightline for the last 72 hours: "the government" failed. Bush failed AGAIN. He should have built those levees higher in 1927. And his decision to locate the city there in the first palce was typically dumb. The poor? His fault. IT"S ALL BUSH. No cure for poverty, cancer, hickups. DAMN HIM.


    Enough blame to go around, but the medja just piss me off and Koppel leads the list.
  20. hollowdweller


    Sep 22, 2003
    New Orleans is starting to look a lot like beautiful downtown Bagdhad after the invasion. No IED's yet but gun battles, looting, and crime. Complaints from the citizens are basically the same in both places. No security, no drinking water, no electric, poor planning.

    Interesting we have put $$$$ into Homeland Security and yet the whole situation, which could be virtually the same as if there was a major terrorist attack or dirty bomb seems to be beyond the scope of that department.

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