Knife steel

C

Chewy1

Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
1,564
Hi everyone. I've got a Vic Ranger that I've loved for years. One thought I often have is a wish for better blade steel. S30v or similar would be such an improvement. Does anybody know if the SAKs will ever go that direction?
 
Chewy1 said:
Hi everyone. I've got a Vic Ranger that I've loved for years. One thought I often have is a wish for better blade steel. S30v or similar would be such an improvement. Does anybody know if the SAKs will ever go that direction?
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No, and they shouldn't. SAKs are owned by millions of people all over the world, the vast majority of whom care little or nothing about the finer points of blade craft. Used mainly for light tasks, ease of resharpening is more important than long term edge holding, and affordability extremely important. Steels like S30v are more for heavy use in occupations or situations that require a lot of cutting, or more likely, knife enthusiasts willing to pay the premium. It would not help the product by fitting SAKs with more expensive and higher grade steels of little value and in some ways a liability to their mainstream customers, and also not likely a limited run to the knife community could sell enough to be worthwhile. Most people, including those who are blade knowledgeable, I believe, recognize and value the SAK for what it is.
 
znapschatz said:
No, and they shouldn't. SAKs are owned by millions of people all over the world, the vast majority of whom care little or nothing about the finer points of blade craft. Used mainly for light tasks, ease of resharpening is more important than long term edge holding, and affordability extremely important. Steels like S30v are more for heavy use in occupations or situations that require a lot of cutting, or more likely, knife enthusiasts willing to pay the premium. It would not help the product by fitting SAKs with more expensive and higher grade steels of little value and in some ways a liability to their mainstream customers, and also not likely a limited run to the knife community could sell enough to be worthwhile. Most people, including those who are blade knowledgeable, I believe, recognize and value the SAK for what it is.
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+1 Never...
 
Yet how many knife guys carry a SAK and another knife to do their cutting with? I never cut with my SAK, preferring instead to use my Spyderco or Benchmade. And I see others do the same thing. I lean toward my next multitool being a Charge TTI simply because Leatherman has addressed my nich need.
 
Despite their cheap cost, one would be really surprised at the edge retention of SAK blade. And Vic probably has the most rust proof MT steel among all the major brands.

Here are some reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXJWaFk97FQ
Spyderco Native 5 S35VN Rope Cutting/Edge Retention Test
Not a direct comparison to S30V, but most would think this steel is probably a 'better' steel than Vic steel. And notice how much rope it cuts before catching on paper cut test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peO0akVMNbg
Victorinox Tinker "Rosta Frei" Rope Cutting/Edge Retention Test
Vic steel probably cut the same amount if not more than many candidates on this channel. Some may criticize how scientific it was conducted, but I would think these tests are done quite objectively and the result is not too far off.

http://www.thetruthaboutknives.com/2014/06/knife-review-victorinox-compact/
Read the card board section
 
I have a small Sak, (lol), I use the blade to only open envelopes. I sharpened it 5 years ago. Every once in a blue moon i "strop" it on an envelope. Slices paper perfectly. No need for better steel.
 
Chewy1 said:
Yet how many knife guys carry a SAK and another knife to do their cutting with? I never cut with my SAK, preferring instead to use my Spyderco or Benchmade. And I see others do the same thing. I lean toward my next multitool being a Charge TTI simply because Leatherman has addressed my nich need.
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Considering there is a market for heavy use multi-tools, S30v on a Charge makes sense, although only the end user can decide how important it really is. I have one and love it, but although the premium steel is nice, it did not influence me to buy that particular m-t as much as a great price. I was shopping for a Wave when an opportunity presented itself to snarf up a Charge TTi at almost the same price. Previously, my daily duty m-t was an original Super Tool that served me 9 years with no issues about its lowly 420HC blades. What's good about dedicated knives is their ergonomics. They are more comfortable in use, which can be a big deal if you do a lot of sustained cutting. Otherwise, almost any steel will do, unless you're a hobbyist, and there is nothing wrong with that.
 
I do a lot of cutting with my SAKs, mostly paper, string, food prep, The toughest work is debarking sticks for the canes and walking sticks I make. The thin blades are great for this and sharpen easily.
 
If Victoronix, which obviously knows a thing or two about how to market a product, thought there was a market for different blade steels we would be seeing them. We are not so...
 
The perfection of the current setup is noted.

I just hope they don't feel the same way.
 
znapschatz said:
No, and they shouldn't. SAKs are owned by millions of people all over the world, the vast majority of whom care little or nothing about the finer points of blade craft. Used mainly for light tasks, ease of resharpening is more important than long term edge holding, and affordability extremely important. Steels like S30v are more for heavy use in occupations or situations that require a lot of cutting, or more likely, knife enthusiasts willing to pay the premium. It would not help the product by fitting SAKs with more expensive and higher grade steels of little value and in some ways a liability to their mainstream customers, and also not likely a limited run to the knife community could sell enough to be worthwhile. Most people, including those who are blade knowledgeable, I believe, recognize and value the SAK for what it is.
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What he said!!:thumbup::thumbup::thumb up:

I personally don't like the so called "better" steels. I like a knife that cuts, but when it's time to sharpen, I don't want to spend a lot of time on it. A minute or two on a hone, a little stropping, and good to go. I like having a knife that I can touch up on the bottom of a coffee mug or dinner plate, top edge of a car window, or back of a legal pad. In fact, I refuse to carry a knife that I can't touch up anywhere or anytime with materials at hand. Too many of the so called super steels need too ugh in the way of sharpeners when it's time to sharpen.

I've used the heck out of the same little Vic classic for 20 years, including sharpening, and it took all of that 20 years to narrow down the blade a bit. For the 7 or 8 dollars it cost back then, that's good enough for me. I hope Victorinox never changes a thing.

Top knife is about 3-4 years old. Bottom one has seen tons of use for 20 years. Still going good. This little knife is used every day for something. Every single day. It is my used knife. Rope/twine, cardboard, plastic packages, mail, electrical tape. I use it for stuff that might mess up the blade on my Case peanut.:D
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The newest of these SAK's is a little over 10 years. The oldest a bit more than 20. They've seen more cutting than a ;to of people give their knives. The standard SAK steel has held up great over the years of real world use.
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What you have to realize is, the whole super steel thing is a huge con. JUst like the whole tactical thing. They have to come up with a "new and better" steel of the month to stimulate sales in an artificially created market. In order to sell more knives, they have to convince you to buy a knife that is "better" than what you have. They make you alter your perception of what you have.

Think about this; the standard SAK steel of now, is at least as good if not better than what the old mountain men had for the skinning knives. Or 1800's pioneers had farming the great plains. Yet now, in a 21st century environment, they have made you feel the need for the office cubicle worker to have a better knife than buffalo skinners, soldiers, sodbusters, and sailors had in times past. The truth is, the average joe knife user wouldn't notice a difference in the steel on a day to day basis at all.
 
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znapschatz said:
No, and they shouldn't. SAKs are owned by millions of people all over the world, the vast majority of whom care little or nothing about the finer points of blade craft. Used mainly for light tasks, ease of resharpening is more important than long term edge holding, and affordability extremely important. Steels like S30v are more for heavy use in occupations or situations that require a lot of cutting, or more likely, knife enthusiasts willing to pay the premium. It would not help the product by fitting SAKs with more expensive and higher grade steels of little value and in some ways a liability to their mainstream customers, and also not likely a limited run to the knife community could sell enough to be worthwhile. Most people, including those who are blade knowledgeable, I believe, recognize and value the SAK for what it is.
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I agree. Victorinox simply RULES the world market for general purpose pocket knives... Don't mess with what's working. They make more knives in a year than many large knife companies make in a decade (MILLIONS). Whatever they're doing is working very well. Keep it simple is best. Probably only about 1% of the knife-using population will care about fancy steels or want to pay extra for them.
 
Chewy1 said:
Yet how many knife guys carry a SAK and another knife to do their cutting with? I never cut with my SAK, preferring instead to use my Spyderco or Benchmade. And I see others do the same thing. I lean toward my next multitool being a Charge TTI simply because Leatherman has addressed my nich need.
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I carry a second knife as my cutting knife, but that's still a simple 1095 steel GEC traditional, not something anyone would call a high-tech steel. The GEC (a stockman or Barlow) is my "knife". The Farmer is a tool that happens to have a blade on it (a pretty darned good one too).

I don't look at my SAK so much as a knife as it's a tool. I carry a Farmer daily and find it a fantastic tool for simple daily dilemmas in routine life. I also have a Leatherman Classic for it's pliers, screwdriver tips and file. The Leatherman is also a tool to me - not a knife. I use the blade in it for scraping, very rarely for cutting.
 
That's my point. I don't look at the sak as my knife because I don't like the knife on it. I always carry a knife because the sak doesn't count in my book.
 
The folks here are knife lovers, so carrying more than one knife is quite common I think, just because we love knives. :D I think for the average person by far the SAK suits their needs fine. If all I had was my SAK I'd not feel lacking in the least, it's just that I love my traditional pocket knives. The SAK is always there and it's a fantastic tool. The blade is excellent too, but since I already have a pocket knife I just don't end up using it in my case.
 
Chewy1 said:
That's my point. I don't look at the sak as my knife because I don't like the knife on it. I always carry a knife because the sak doesn't count in my book.
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There was a period of a few years when I did likewise. Often while working I needed to cut something with one hand while holding on to something else. OH folders were great for this chore, so I carried one to accompany my SAK or multi-tool. Even though a practical need pushed me that way, I got interested in the whole subject and become something of a knifeknut.

Decades later, that has worn off (mostly, otherwise why would I be writing this? :eek:) Either I have become more lazy or less obsessive, but due to OH multi-tools, my Charge in particular, I seldom need a dedicated knife anymore. The only time using one really made a difference was when I spent a 5 hour stint with a only a 15 minute break opening bags of blown insulation. My hand cramped up with the multitool blade I was using, so I switched to a Buck 110 that was nearby. It had just the right handle shape to get me through the rest with comfort. But that happened years ago and only once, ever.

I still use dedicated blades from time to time, sometimes because they are the right tool for the job, and sometimes simply because I like them. I'm a hobbyist, too. ;)
 
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Short answer to the OP... I hope they´ll never do; never change a winning team.
 
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