Legislation On Wolves

Discussion in 'Himalayan Imports' started by ibear, Feb 15, 2005.

  1. ibear

    ibear

    478
    Apr 15, 2002
    Geez! Heinrich Karl Bukowski. Downer. Acne and alcohol.
    *********************************************
    Hank was like that, a bit, but he did make a person think about life. His poems do tend to be very intropsective in nature. I think he had a lot to say. Certainly, I enjoy some of his stuff much more than others. But, then again, I like thinkers and I enjoy exchanging opinions with good people. Like yourself, even now, I really enjoy this exchange!
    Thanks,
    iBear
     
  2. munk

    munk

    Mar 22, 2002
    As for insects; Thomas, I've read on and off my whole life Insects will take over. Maybe that's about as true as the ice age 30 years ago.



    munk
     
  3. ibear

    ibear

    478
    Apr 15, 2002
    he'd have given THEM opposable thumbs and Windchesters
    *********************************************
    To beat on their chests like man and then they would tell us what to do! That would put man in a pickle, NOW....... wouldn't it? Man would be "Gone With The Wind"! Maybe that could happen, if only they had thumbs and windchesters! HEY! I like windchesters! :D :D :D
    NOW yer thinkin!
    Smile,
    iBear
     
  4. ibear

    ibear

    478
    Apr 15, 2002
    Just thinking again, I do that once or twice a day! Oooooooooh.... maybe it's still coming! Maybe they got the message mixed up! Honestly, I have no idea. Nice to read your words of wisdom. Your rendition of Munk the inhumane, cracked me up!
    You are funny!
    Thanks,
    iBear
     
  5. munk

    munk

    Mar 22, 2002
    Hey Ibear,
    You what pioneers thought of the nature on their 40 acres? Something to get the hell out of the way so they could grow food.



    munk
     
  6. ibear

    ibear

    478
    Apr 15, 2002
    YEAH, true enough. Chop the trees, burn out the stumps, tear up the soil, toil and trabajo, till the dirt, plant a garden, get food, eat and die from hard work! Now, that was a life! A real downer..... where is Motel Six?

    On the other hand... more to the point..... many of us good people really want to get closer to nature and even go back to nature! Some of us good people move to Montana and enjoy snow storms and good ol' natural living! That is a fact!

    I actually knew a great guy, that had the guts to move back to nature and he really did it.... and he did that exact thing once.... only once! He is still there in Montana, fast becoming a Montanian of repute! Soon to be a legend........ no doubt!
    Smile,
    iBear
     
  7. ibear

    ibear

    478
    Apr 15, 2002
    As for insects.......... UGH!

    Did I mention UGH? In case I didn't, here ya go!
    Insects,
    UGH!
    iBear
     
  8. munk

    munk

    Mar 22, 2002
    Our hope with insects is to start eating more of them- a lot more. We won't do that until we get hungry enough, though.



    munk
     
  9. Jebadiah_Smith

    Jebadiah_Smith

    878
    Jul 28, 2004
    I think I'll write a book called "Man Versus Nature: The Road to Victory"

    Chapter 1: Eat more bugs
    Chapter 2: Russian Gunships
    etc.
     
  10. Rusty

    Rusty Moderator Moderator

    Mar 8, 1999
    ..........burp!




    ;) ;) ;)
     
  11. ibear

    ibear

    478
    Apr 15, 2002
    Our hope with insects is to start eating more of them- a lot more.
    We won't do that until we get hungry enough, though.
    ***********************************************
    Maybe sooner than you think! In some food surveys, they have actually tested how much insect parts were found in the food.

    Interesting stuff to quickly forget about.... I think! This is not a joke: there are ground up red beetles being used right now as a food coloring ingredient in yogurt, ice cream, juice drinks and many other grocery products. The ingredient is called "carmine."

    CARMINE.... Mmmmm, GOOD!

    Carmine is literally made from dried, ground-up red beetles, and its coloring (bright red) is used in yogurt, juice drinks, candies, and a long list of other products, including many "natural" products.

    It's not that these red beetles are dangerous. Except for a few individuals who suffer severe allergic reactions to the beetles, most people do just fine eating carmine. Beetles are probably good for you, just like ants. High in protein, low in fat... you get the picture.

    But there's a grossness factor that probably explains why products using this ingredient list "carmine" instead of "powdered red beetles" on the label.

    :barf: :barf: :barf:

    Thanks,
    iBear
     
  12. ibear

    ibear

    478
    Apr 15, 2002
    ..........burp! As in ummmmm good......... OR,

    Ahhhhh.......... burp as in OH MY GOD, what did I just eat? Some people cover grass hoppers with chocolate and say they taste great!

    Not to me..... but, I don't like insects... so my view is obviously very prejudiced!
    Some other person could probably expound objectively on this very subject! Sorrrreeeee to admit, I cannot do that!
    Nope,
    iBear
     
  13. ibear

    ibear

    478
    Apr 15, 2002
    First, the amount of insect material in food products is governed by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition (CFSAN). They regulate all sorts of things related to food safety, but the documents we are interested in concern the Food Defect Action Levels program. This regulates the amount of insect parts, foreign plant matter, rodent filth and rotten parts that food can contain.

    If you want to read a nice little article about the process, check out this Salon article called Bug heads, rat hairs -- bon appetit. It is a pretty funny little read.

    http://archive.salon.com/health/col/roac/2000/01/14/filth_lab/print.html

    If you want some more detailed information, the main document, for your reading pleasure, is called the FDA/CFSAN Defect Action Level Handbook and it is quite an interesting read.

    http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/dalbook.html

    For instance, here are the tolerances for peanut butter:

    Insect filth: No more than 30 insect fragments per 100 grams.
    Rodent filth: No more than 1 rodent hair per 100 grams.
    Grit: Gritty taste and water insoluble inorganic residue may not exceed 25mg per 100 grams.

    However, this last line is what I find most interesting:

    DEFECT SOURCE: Insect fragments - preharvest and/or post harvest and/or processing insect infestation, Rodent hair - post harvest and/or processing contamination with animal hair or excreta, Grit - harvest contamination

    SIGNIFICANCE: Aesthetic. Aesthetic? Well, I suppose its true, despite what some may choose to believe, a few rat hairs and insect legs isn't going to hurt anybody!

    You might find it a bit bizarre to be eating insect crap, but really, its a small thing to our bodies. In fact, I'm willing to bet that decreased usage of pesticides and an increase in 'organic' farming techniques will only mean skyrocketing insect part levels in food. I'm not bothered by that prospect overly much.

    I don't fancy eating bugs, seeing as how I hate insects. But, at the same time, a realization has to be made that bugs are everywhere, and invariably will end up in whatever you are eating. It isn't cruel, its just the nature of being an insect who can crawl into anything, has 300 babies at a time and lives for two weeks. Plus, caterpillars have as much protein by weight as beef, but with much less fat, 10 times as much iron, and many other vitamins as well. :barf: :barf: :barf:

    I suppose accidentally eating a few isn't really that bad of an idea. Like HELL, I hate that idea! :eek: :eek: :eek:

    However, this still doesn't address the question of how the insect parts are counted. For that, we need to look to another document, called the Macroanalytical Procedures Manual.

    http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/mpm-toc.html

    This document contains procedures for doing all sorts of filth-tests. For the most part, it seems simple filtration serves to identify insect matter and excrement in the food products. Also, various methods of digesting the food product in acids, and then separating any undigested material (such as the insect heads). :( :( :(

    Happy reading. INSECTS, did I mention UGH?
    If I forgot, here ya go!
    Insects, UGH!
    iBear
     
  14. Yvsa

    Yvsa

    May 18, 1999
    One of the many, many, jobs that my mom had over the years was one in a cannery where they happened too be canning tomatoes at the time.
    One of the big smart assed boys there would drop one of the huge cutworms into every 5th to 10th can of tomatoes just before it went to get its lid sealed on and then into the pressure cooker. The heat from cooking disappated the worm so it wouldn't be seen when you opened the can for consumption.

    Then one day there was the knife fight between a couple of the minority ethnic women. Mom said there was blood all over everything and it couldn't be distinguished from the tomato juice.
    Was the line shut down and cleaned before resuming operation you ask?:eek:

    Nope.

    But that was back in the mid too late 40's and I'm certain, actually read "hopeful" that such a thing wouldn't happen today but you never will know what you are eating when you open a can unless you canned it yourself. :p

    But what we eat that we don't know about doesn't really matter all that much anyway.
    A lot of ndns don't and won't admit that way back when there was a goodly number of us that liked our meat quite "high" and would look forward to a couple of weeks too a month after the hunt before really enjoying our meat.
    Also like other carrion hunters we often enjoyed "found" meat that we didn't have too expend any effort too kill.:D

    Another thing that won't and don't get admitted too is the parts of animals that we would and did eat.
    We studied our four legged predator kin and emulated them to a much greater extent than some folks realized.:cool:
    The fermented stomach contents was often one of the first things enjoyed after a fresh kill as it still is in some countries this very day or so I have heard.:p

    I once worked a very short time, two weeks, at a nationally known pie bakery. One of the company's specials is a nice soft chewy oatmeal cookie with a cream filling.:cool:
    I still love those things although I have too admit there was a time I couldn't/wouldn't eat them.........

    The drivers brought back all the out of date and spoiled pies. I have seen beautiful egg custard pies that had turned green with mold and had seperated and became fully liquid again, like it was before it was cooked.
    There were cherry, apple, raisin, and you name it pies that were all placed on racks just for them.
    I kept asking why they didn't throw the pies out since they were so obviously spoiled but no one would ever tell me......
    Then there was that one fateful night when I was asked too stay over for a while................

    Yep! I found out what they did with the spoiled pies. The leadman took me over too this grinder and showed me how too grind up those spoiled pies.
    After so many fuit pies the mixture would get stiff so you had too add a few of those runny custard pies to it in order to soften it up.
    After I had ground up all of the spoiled pies into several about 10 gallon cans it was refrigerated for Cryin Out Loud!
    I asked what the hell for and was told, "So it won't spoil." HELL!!!! It was Already SPOILED!!!!
    The very next day the bakers took the spoiled ground up pies out of the reefer and added some fresh flour and other stuff too it and then proceeded too start baking it!!!!
    What were they baking you ask?

    Why it was those lovely Oatmeal Cookies that I Loved so much!!!!:rolleyes: :p :barf: :D
     
  15. munk

    munk

    Mar 22, 2002
    A pal and I were driving through the West in his Ford truck with a camper. We were touring the west- I was looking over all the likely states, trying to find one worth moving to from Calif. We were in Wash State, our last stop, because my buddy was moving there. Poor fool. Anyway, we had a large can of Dinty Moore stew open and had just heated it. I took my cupfull and there was a fly floating around, not disipated like Yvsa's cut worms.

    We didn't eat, and neither myself or my friend has ever had Dinty Moore (sic)again. Probably not fair of us- but oh well.

    Thing is- I've eaten some pretty suspect material. I've grabbed food off a flithy floor, wiped it clean,and gobbled it down.

    When it is my decision, that's OK. When a manufacturer makes the decision for me, that's not OK.

    How are your eyes now, Yvsa?


    munk
     
  16. Yvsa

    Yvsa

    May 18, 1999
    Getting better by the hour thanks, and it was just the left one. They will only do one at a time due too the inhierent risks.

    _________________
     
  17. munk

    munk

    Mar 22, 2002
    OK, good.





    munk
     
  18. Thomas Linton

    Thomas Linton

    Jun 16, 2003
    Yvsa, it doesn't "pay" to work in food processing. After a stint at a poultry slaughter house, I couldn't eat chicken for a couple of years.

    "Funny" how the boss always knew the day before a "surprise inspection." We'd spend the entire day with soap, scrub brushes, and steam lines. Miserable work in the heat, but the place SHINED when the inspectors showed up -- then back to filth, flies, and feathers. :barf:
     
  19. ibear

    ibear

    478
    Apr 15, 2002
    :) Yvsa,
    Those rotten stories will make a guy think twice before purchasing one of those nice beautiful store bought pastries or pies! UGH! I hate insects!

    Glad to hear your eyes are on the mend. Good news! :) :) :)

    iBear
     
  20. ibear

    ibear

    478
    Apr 15, 2002
    "surprise inspection."

    I guess they new what to expect! Nice of the inspector to call and warn them in advance. I wonder what that information cost your boss? ;)

    My guess is it wasn't free! ;) ;) ;)
     

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