Legislation On Wolves

dunno munk...

everything man does is "human," from which a great distinction can be drawn from the concept of "natural." That whole consciousness/logic stuff is kind of "unnatural." It's worked well for our species, but doubt that the planet, should it be able to vote, would allign itself on our party's platform.
 
Anyone here subscribe to the Scientific American? They just had an interesting article on global warming.

Maybe humans, with all of our smog and CFCs are just natures little space heaters? We might be thinking too highly of ourselves if we assume that we are going beyond nature in our endeavours. Maybe our natural purpose is to clear forests and set off nukes?
 
Kismet, if you risk great heights, you risk great disaster. Our planet has no 'consciousness' in which to vote for largely dumb mammals to rule the earth without men. As our Sun is going to Nova eventually anyway, I'm not sure what the vote would mean even if 'she' could give it.

People in our culture are taught to dislike themselves on an unconscious level. They feel 'white man's guilt' They then hate the culture and civilization which brought them here. Call that Old Europe. Or you could call it the Fall Of Rome.
As ugly as McDonald's is, and we will put one on every planet we go, We must go forward.
How far we get is anyone's guess, but spooning over a sentimental lost innocence of a more primitive time and culture, which in reality was brutal, short, and bloody, is ssssiiiilllllyyyy.

I'm not immune. I hate civiliization so much I moved to a single dirt road town. I've got wild turkeys in my yard.
But the best of me want Mankind to go on. I like animal husbandry, I like wolves and bears, but I sure as heck don't kid myself they are 'better' than I am, or more 'natural'.

I've had a fiesty day so if my tone is not as neat and keeno as it should be do not be alarmed. Kismet is still high in my celestial universe, even if munk is a low down killer in his.

Look on the bright side- if we really blow it the insects will evolve. They're much more self effacing than we are, and are resistant to radiation.

munk
 
Jebadiah_Smith said:
How can you compare predator control to wife beating?
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I was referring to abuse of power in any situation. An attack on a woman was an example.

Just want to reiterate that I don't have a strong sense of the situation in Alaska, so perhaps I have gone a little off topic. I just get bummed out because wolves have had their backs against the wall from the get go, and they are not bad animals.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Animals are not better than Humans. Either are ndns, computer nerds, writers, gay people, Senators, Bill Gates, or Seventh Day Adventists. Animals are a blessing and I hope we keep as many as we can. To do that better, we must kill wolves in Alaska. That is not abuse. That is keeping the entire eco system intact for MORE ANIMALS, and people. - Munk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


I agree on this also. My point was simply that animals live in better balance with their natural surroundings than we do. My opinion, thats all.



"They need a Soviet Helicopter Gunship." THAT is Funny. :D
 
Thanks, Scissors

<<<"My point was simply that animals live in better balance with their natural surroundings than we do. My opinion, thats all.>>>>>>>>>>>> Bamboo

I'm glad you agreed with many of my points, also, Bamboo. I'd like to look at this statement of yours for a moment. I'm not sure what percentage of wolves is equal to the average human, maybe 1.5, but lets make it a strict one on one count. How many billions of people are we feeding now? What would happen to the Earth if there were that many billions of Wolves instead of people?

Now, who lives in better balance?


munk
 
munk said:
<<<"My point was simply that animals live in better balance with their natural surroundings than we do. My opinion, thats all.>>>>>>>>>>>> Bamboo

I'm glad you agreed with many of my points, also, Bamboo. I'd like to look at this statement of yours for a moment. I'm not sure what percentage of wolves is equal to the average human, maybe 1.5, but lets make it a strict one on one count. How many billions of people are we feeding now? What would happen to the Earth if there were that many billions of Wolves instead of people?

Now, who lives in better balance?


munk
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Yes, humankind has come up with some amazing ways of handling incredibly diverse situations.

I don't think there would ever be billions of wolves on the planet because of the natural checks and balances that exist within nature.

I can walk out my door, down the street, and how many obese people will I see? Plenty. It is common knowledge that the population in America is consistently getting fatter. This to me is out of balance. Something is wrong when individuals let themselves become like this. Animals don't overeat. They don't eat when they are bored, or lonely. They eat simply to eat. They hunt, they kill, they forage ... simply to eat. They sleep when they are tired, and work when there is work to be done.

A while back, I was going through some hard decision making, seeing most of my friends climb higher up the corporate ladder, making better $, buying houses, and getting fat. Also, in a large part of their lives, becoming unhappy. But to me, I feel health is more important than wealth, and I don't see it in most of these people's lives.

I asked a close friend this question, because I kept getting stuck on it ... "What is more important, being able to easily run up a flight of stairs, or making a lot of money." Yes, it is simplisitic in its approach, but the IDEA is the important part. I honestly think the stairs are the more important of the two. Of course the ideal is to have a balance of both, but this is what I find to be missing in such a big part of the world.

~

The Oil for Food program in the Middle East ... riddled with corruption. Major Businesses .... riddled with corruption. Every world government ... riddled with corruption. This doesn't mean they don't function, and in some cases function extremely well. But they are still highly unbalanced due to greed, thirst for power, or a need to be the best.

Animals don't do this. Yes, they will defend their territory, but not out of greed. They defend for survival and to insure their mating abilities. It just seems more in tune with what is necessary as opposed to what is desired.


Thanks for your comments, Munk.

~ Bamboo
 
It is common knowledge that the population in America is consistently getting fatter. This to me is out of balance. Something is wrong when individuals let themselves become like this. Animals don't overeat. They don't eat when they are bored, or lonely. They eat simply to eat. They hunt, they kill, they forage ... simply to eat. They sleep when they are tired, and work when there is work to be done.>>>>>>>>>>


How old are you? I'm just curious, because it's a lot easier to talk about weight when one is closer to 30 than 60. Animals DO overeat. They also kill for the hell of it. Where do you get this stuff? Life is always change. There is no statis- that's death. Animals adapt as best they can- that's why the Coyote is doing fine. Animals GORGE the hell out of themselves knowing the next meal may be far down the line. I bet if a lion had his choice of sleeping all day, waking, eating his fill, and going back to sleep again, or going a week without food while hunting- which do you think he would prefer?

There is life and there is fantasy. If anything, most of man's problems aren't because he's unnatural, it's because despite his brain he is still an ANIMAL!!!

All of this stuff- checks and balances- is true and has a place. But the reason the lion is 'balanced' in your eyes is because he lacks the abilities to exceed his environment. He cannot exceed his peers, the exsistance of other cats, snakes, draught, weather,injury, disease and death. And he's always subject to being killed by a younger lion. His lifespan is 4 to 6 years.

Man guilt. Get over it. It's OK to be a human, OK to eat a Big MAC, and OK to be Born in America. WE are the Earth's best chance to achieve escape velocity from the normal cycles of life and death. If we fail, given time, the Earth will provide a new petri dish for other species that may be more successful than we were. This is our shot.

Have you ever looked at the projections of how many species will disapear in the next 400 years? I wish I had such a chart on hand. I haven't seen one in awhile and I don't know if that because it's not PC or because I haven't looked! (You think?) But what is so damned funny, is that regardless of what environmental controls we use, it almost makes no difference in the final outcome. Species die. That means if you followed the Sierra Club or the Monsanto mining corp plan the result would almost be the same. Species die.

munk
 
Maybe I am fantasizing about the nature of animals. Or perhaps only choosing to see what I want to see. Don't know.

I agree that WE are the planet's best chance to overcome cycles of chaos. I would also add that WE are probably the planet's biggest nemesis at the moment. Not that this can't change, and I believe, is changing.

Man guilt? I think for me it is more Man Frustration. Just get frustrated when people don't do their share of the work that needs to be done on the planet, in order to benefit it, not suck it dry.

In answer to your question - I'm 32. I can see your point regarding the relationship between age and health. I can also walk out on the street and find an obese person of any age, 5 - 85. I also personally know many people well into their 60's and 70's who actively participate in their own health and look fantastic. So I don't see age as an overriding cause of poor health. It comes down to individual/societal decisions.

~ Bamboo
 
Bamboo, when I was 32 my resting pulse was 56 and I could climb by foot a thousand feet in a half hour up a MT. I was 10 pounds overweight. Today I'm 48, I could climb a thousand feet if I were lucky in an hour and 20 minutes, my BP is high and I need meds for this. I'm sometimes 15 pounds overweight.

I was unmarried and could devote much time to exercise when younger. Today I have responsibilites and little time to do that. I'll bet I could do a lot better than I am, though.

There is a current percieved 'crisis' in our health community today about obesity and young people. I don't know how much of a true crisis it really is. I do think happy young people run around too much to be fat. Why aren't they running around? Don't know. Unsafe cities? Video games? Fear of Wolves?


munk
 
Jebadiah_Smith said:
Anyone here subscribe to the Scientific American? They just had an interesting article on global warming.

Maybe humans, with all of our smog and CFCs are just natures little space heaters? We might be thinking too highly of ourselves if we assume that we are going beyond nature in our endeavours. Maybe our natural purpose is to clear forests and set off nukes?
Click to expand...

I have read repeatedly that over 75% of all measured global warming took place before 1800. While that fact does not make efforts to slow the process unimportant, it does have implications.
 
That you, Yvsa? You look like you're about ready to go into the Light.




munk
 
munk said:
That you, Yvsa? You look like you're about ready to go into the Light.




munk
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Looks like I've got quite a Peyote garden growing ainnit? With thanks too the many, and not just those here in the Cantina, as it is nothing I have done, except talk and that's evident from my overly large post count.:rolleyes: :eek:

Back to the scheduled discuss and cussin about wolves.:D ;)
 
Hey Munk, Sorry to hear about the HB. My father is in his late 60's and had to go on meds for cholesterol. The Doctors told him to take the meds and change his diet. He said, "Ok, for now" (regarding the pills). He changed his diet pretty dramatically and within 6 months was down to 1/2 medication. Within a year he was off the original meds and onto a 1/2 dose of something much easier on his system.

Both parents are pretty healthy overall which is comforting to me. I am trying to get them to see an acupuncturist now, while they are healthy and can get used to the idea. So that when something real comes up, they are aware that they have options other than their doctor and his pills. (No I'm not slamming western medicine here! Just feel that Eastern techniques have a lot to offer - even for treating HB .. ;) )

If you have only gained 5lbs in the past 16 years, and are still climbing MT's, albeit a little slower, then I would say you are doing great.

It is the people who do nothing with their day, their lives, and their bodies that baffle me. These are the ones who I say are living "out of balance." Them and individuals who abuse power, as has been talked about previously.

munk said:
Why aren't they running around? Don't know. Unsafe cities? Video games? Fear of Wolves?


munk
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I don't know either. I think maybe just fear itself? I hope that is one of the things that WE figure out and work to fix so that we do save the planet and move on to bigger and better things.

~ B
 
munk said:
Why do you say that, Thomas; before 1800?
munk
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'Cause that's the number quoted in the articles. Why they picked 1800 I could not say, but it's sure before the internal combustion engine showed up.

The implication is that the world is a complex machine and we're just one part. There seems to be a cycle of ice ages, warming periods, and ice-ages.

Anyone here recall that in the late 70's and early 80's the big ecological "thing" was the coming ice age? Cities were trucking away snow because there was no place to pile it in the cities.
 
Well, Thomas, I saw on the Discovery channel the Ice Age is back!! Global Warming? Nawwww. Here's how it works- "global warming' is melting the polar caps somewhat, raising the ocean level and changing the cycle of ocean currents.. Without the current to take warm water to cold, the seasons change on earth. It gets cold.


munk
 
And if God wanted wolves to run the world, he'd have given THEM opposable thumbs and Windchesters! :D

And one of my favorite quotes: "You can't just let nature run wild!"

:D :D :D
 
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