Lets use those axes for what they were ment for.

Old Axeman,yes Sir,i remember that it's thanks to you that we all got to see that Wisconsin video-thanks again!
I must not remember correctly,i thought those Michigan-patterns is what they used,but must've missed the bradaxe finishing...(watching videos is a rare luxury with my bandwidth here).
A very good point that,about hewing house-logs upside-down,thank you,it's one of those important and easy to overlook facts that are so rare to come across nowadays....
As usual,i was speaking entirely too broadly,and thinking more about the hewing practices preceding that of the American pattern of broadaxe,such as were used in Norway and Finland(most characteristically),and loosely relating it even to the Japanese yari-gana finish of exterior timbers.All those methods used a combination of concave marks that formed a plane...(let me look for a photo...).
But yes,all very true.
Did you also see finishing with an adze,lipped or otherwise,After the broadaxe work?Was that common,or desirable,or was the broadaxe the final finish of choice?
 
Here we go...https://imgur.com/a/nlSrkGS (there's 3 photos there if you scroll,Norsk first,then the yari-finish,then the final piilu work,after the walls are up).
That Finnish method is curious,and is one of the last ones remaining from what was a very widespread practice.In a commonly found video of a museum replication of a traditional Finnish cabin a Very odd axe is used for this,a small,very unassuming tool,not even the proverbial piilu,not something that even Looks like a hewing implement...
But again,all of this is more of a side note.
 
Thank you J jake pogg for all the advice and tips. I may end up having to scallop the face as that is the requested finish. However, I will have to show every stage of hewing's finishes in an attempt to avoid "hand hewing" ie scalloping the face. Now I just have to hope no one out bids me on the broad axe.
 
Jake- It depends on the intended use for the finished hewn log rather it was adzed after broad axe hewing. These are some uses that were broad axe hewn and then adzed--ship timbers, timber frame houses and some times timber framed barns, exposed ceiling joists ,mantels, decorative work (like in your recent pictures). I have never see an ORGINAL American log structure with adzed exterior hewn wall logs (this does not mean they don't exist). This, like everything I post, is based on actual observation and experience and not speculation. There is so much to be learned from the past. For example, it is possible to look at the tooling marks of a traditionally hewn log and determine the technique, tools (including size), and even if the axeman was right or left handed. Some hewn logs have tooling marks that show that two different axemen hewed on the same log or one axeman who was a switch chopper. The corner notching on horizontal log structures more often than not shows that different joints were done by different people.
 
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Yes,A17,best of luck getting that axe,or another decent one that'd be restorable for real use.
Your log looks nice and clear,and should make some very decent timbers and practice-hewing(it's too bad that it's dry,but you'll just have to keep your tools extra-sharp,and it'll be just fine).

Scalloping of whatever flavor goes back in time very far.Here's an example of oak-work from Yorkshire,where all the flat surfaces are adzed scalloped:http://www.robertthompsons.co.uk/_shop/classic-items/cm06-classic-mouseman-pewbench/
(for those interested And having comp.search skills there're vastly better photos of work coming out of this shop).

An American(Kent-pattern in essence) broadaxe is an interesting concept.For whatever reason,as one friend from Tennessee who works as a State archaeologist tells me,all the settlers most recently from the Old Country were rapidly abandoning tools traditional to their region in favor of that large heavy American pattern.Even Moravians and the Pennsilvania Dutch et c.,i.e. people coming from some very old and established craftsmanship traditions.

And again,good for you for your interest and making time to try your hand at hewing.It's not easy to do.
(i've fairly recently built an entire moderate-size house using vertically-"hewed" logs,and had to fake it all with a mill and an electric plane;it being impossible(within reasonable limit of resources) to justify axe-work, time- and labor-wise....:(
 
Yes,Old Axeman,thank you yet again.
It is the Sequence of events that is interesting to me,in what order these tools were used,so thank you kindly for this info.
 
Old Axeman said:
Jake- I just added some text to my latest post.
Click to expand...

Yes,thank you,that is very valuable info.And absolutely these kind of forensics done on old structures are vastly important,wish that as much of it will et done and made available as possible.

In a Very general sense it seems that long ago in N. and W. Europe hewing was done by means of several lateral passes;the farther back the more commonly that was done.
Gradually axes were growing heavier,the edges longer,but i needn't to complicate this topic with all this speculative thinking.
 
The Pacific Northwest First People traditionally adzed all their wood work. That was the tool they had. At first with jadeite blades and later with iron or steel blades. In the early 1980's I worked an archeological site where a jadeite adze blade in good condition was recovered (circa 1100 AD). A structure was unearthed that had been built of interlocking wood beams and posts. Charring in fire preserved some of the joinery which was quite good.

Traditional wood works show an adzed scalloped surface. Large cedar homes and totems were not considered finished until they had been adzed over their entire surface.

I am currently reading the book 'Cedar' by Hilary Stewart. It documents many of the carpentry traditions of the PNW First People. Many traditional tools are housed in the Burke Museum on the University of Washington campus where I used to work. Two main styles of adzes were in use, the elbow adze and the D-handle adze. It's well documented that these tools have mostly had iron blades for the past +/-500 years. Iron was salvaged from Asian shipwrecks and barrel loops that washed ashore. Iron tipped tools were common at the Ozette site that was buried in a landslide over 200 years ago.

Here is one such adze I photographed at the Burke Museum.
Elbow%20adze.jpg


A D-handle adze which has been re-steeled with an old axe (just to stay on topic).
D-handle%20adze.jpg


Demonstrating use.
Mungo%20Martin.jpg
 
Thanks,Square_peg,beautiful tools,great info...Couple years ago i had a chance conversation with a couple Tlingit canoe-carvers in Sitka,and got to see the tools themselves(forged by one of the carvers),and the technique...Fantastic stuff.

It makes total sense of course that Any cut along the grain must be scalloped in whatever degree(the only flat plane in the natural universe achievable by machining process only).

The apparent plane of a broadaxe itself is a section of a hemisphere,for that reason,the cut Must enter And exit the grain,it cannot possibly parallel it over the entire surface...

I few years back i turned down a job of re-steeling a broadaxe for a timber-framer.Photos that he sent showed such complex parabolic curve that it scared me witless even thinking of having to restore that tool...(what beauty though...i don't think i kept those photos,unfortunately,but you've all here seen plenty nice tools).
 
jake pogg said:
Old Axeman,yes Sir,i remember that it's thanks to you that we all got to see that Wisconsin video
Click to expand...

I would love to see this video! Is there a copy/version somewhere online? Thank you :D I am really enjoying reading your discussion about hewing, it has sparked an interest and I will be looking into more. Cheers
 
S.P. Everything you have just said about the Pacific Northwest First People is also true here in Hawaii. I am working with the National Park Service here about the introduction of metal into a stone tool culture. I have hung a few of my 1780-1830 adzes, including D- handle, with Koa hafts. I have also made a Koa elbow adze with forged steel blade. Pre contact Hawaiian canoe builders salvaged metal from shipwreck timbers that washed up.
 
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Kiwi--there was a copy somewhere on this site that Square-peg was kind enough to post for me. But, I don't know how to help you find it.
 
jake pogg said:
Yes, A17, best of luck getting that axe, or another decent one that'd be restorable for real use.
Your log looks nice and clear, and should make some very decent timbers and practice-hewing(it's too bad that it's dry, but you'll just have to keep your tools extra-sharp, and it'll be just fine).
Click to expand...
We've gotten 6ish inches of rain in about a week so it is wet but not green. Therefore it should work better and not check as much.
 
Old Axeman said:
Everything you have just said about the Pacific Northwest First People is also true here in Hawaii.
Click to expand...

That is a very correct manner of looking at things.Actually,one may just say North Pacific,as it's the currents and the trade-wind patterns that determined the nature of the contacts and trading of people with each other.

But the statement below,with all due respect,i'd challenge(cautiously as of this date,nonetheless....):
QUOTE="Old Axeman, post: 18594051, member: 399396"]Pre contact Hawaiian canoe builders salvaged metal from shipwreck timbers that washed up.[/QUOTE]

Note how it echoes what Square_peg said above...In has been a catch-all phrase for ethnographers for a long time,kind of like attribution of an object as "ritual" when it's actual purpose is unknown.
Yes,indubitably material from the wrecks was used,but the indigenous cultures around the Ring of Fire did have sources of ferrous metals that are little discussed,and the above euro-centric statement is steadily eroding.

The two kinds of Fe from Greenland(the meteoritic and the Telluric)have to date been identified as far west along the Canadian Arctic coast as the Makenzie delta(on the border with Alaska almost).
That is Well within even the well-documented trade routs among the Tlingit and their Inuit contacts.
But less commonly talked of (as yet) is the strange Mohe culture(or Churchen,as it is called generally).They occupied the valley of the Amur(across the street from Alaska),and in the end of the first millenium A.D. were Extremely well-developed iron-working culture.
(organised mining,smeting,entire villages of workmen,river-system based supplying of the industry,the works.Taking Fe right down to liquidus,casting ridiculously delicate,elegant tea-pots,forging and isothermally treating iron and steel...).

The Ainu of the Northern Japan and Kuril islands have had a number of steel implements well reflected in the PNW("crooked knife",notably),and one can go on an on...(awful what we done to this poor thread:)

The scientific day is still young...Even the well-known Cu of the S.E.Alaska native industry has not been identified as to it's origin,it was Not traded from any known inland,Athabaskan source afterall.

And yes:All the samples of iron or steel that Have been tested to date did not preceed contact,but such testing is obcenely costly,and much of what is even extant has not been tested yet.(archaeometallurgy is a young science...).
 
jake pogg said:
But less commonly talked of (as yet) is the strange Mohe culture(or Churchen,as it is called generally).They occupied the valley of the Amur(across the street from Alaska),and in the end of the first millenium A.D. were Extremely well-developed iron-working culture.
Click to expand...

This is one of the theories presented in 'Cedars'. But also in 1778 Capt. James Cook reported all the carving tools he saw as having iron blades with the exception of a single chisel of bone. Other reports were of metal blades the size and thickness of barrel hoops so it seems likely that these were at least one source of iron.

It was also noted that the wood working tradition in the north was more developed than in the south and this could indicate an iron source coming across from NE Asia. Given the First People's great ability to exploit whatever resources they found it wouldn't surprise me if both sources were common.
 
Yes Sir,'tis all so,and more and more strange information surfaces all the time...And the testing methods,mind-blowing already,but still getting increasingly more so.
Our perception is rapidly changing also(and if not,it ought to:).
We all kinds held it as an axiom that iron,steel,is Better.In ALL ways,and culture that posesses it-has got it made.
And for us,as "westerners",it did do the trick:The great wearability gave us precision for machine-building,then electric generation,eventually the micro-processor and the Information Age.This is where we were heading,or trying to,for a long while.
(one of the main features of the "Iron Age" (a relative archaeological term,btw)is literacy that inevitably follows close on it's heels).

But there were other,very successful cultures,whose aim was different.Chukchi of the Chukotka penninsula,for example,had Fe,+the skill to forge it and even to fire-weld,but only used it in making religious objects.Extremely war-like people,they resisted all the attempts by the abnoxious russians to colonise them for over 150 years...Clad in raw-hide walrus mail,with bone and ivory lamellae,armed with entirely organic bows and spears,they defeated the russians with all their steel implements and musketry and the works.

In Indonesia(another possible trading partner for much of the West Coast of N.America(Indonesian flotsam on the shores of S.E.Alaska is common),people had very developed iron-working.In the same time very widespread was a taboo on using it for agricultural implements...

Much of the above is cultural,but even from an engineering standpoint steel looses out to a lot of organic material.Hide makes better armor(it's tougher),wood is stiffer,as a projectile,as well as lighter,obsidian takes a vastly finer edge,and so on.
Yet many like to think that everyone wanted iron,and were just somehow incapable of obtaining it(maybe it makes us look better by reflection).

So net having iron did not necessarily equal not being Able of having it,it just as easily could have been superfluous for a given people.They were busy frying other fish!:)
 
Jake-And I challenge your challenge. The National Park Service Archaeologist at Hawaii Volcanoes park, A 3rd generation here on the Big Island will tell you that pre-contact Hawaiians did salvage metal from shipwrecks, they even had a word for metal when Capt. Cook arrived. What you say for Alaska might be true but there is no iron ore in Hawaii, so how did they get metal for some of their pre-contact tools?
 
:)

Old Axeman,of course my challenge is all bluff!:)
With no education(not even high-school diploma)to my name,i can't very well challenge Science...(other than as being a Specimen myself,as all my friends at Anthropology dept. find :)

I don't know,is the short answer...

But as a romantic,Heyerdahl reader,and so on,i must wonder...What contact there May've been,prior to Europeans?And who were They in turn in contact with?(Sea-Dyaks or some other Malaysian pirates?Did those guys venture that far?Is it known how far Hawaiians may've sailed to(and come back?).

No ores at all?Not even magnetitic black sand on beaches?....It's hard to believe that there wouldn't be any oxide ores at the very least...As we know from John Ruskin,All red-yellow-brown and such spectrum in nature Is iron...4th most common elementon the planet,i've never really heard of an environment totally devoid of it...
But,of course,it may well be so.

For the last year or so i've been conducting a very informal study of my own into Copper forging of the people that i live around.Science,although recognising them as the only American indian culture to forge metals,looks down on this dismissively as "cold-forging"(not "science" of course but individuals,and just the general "ambience" one may say)

Well,i'm finding out on practice that it's vastly more complex,that there Had to be hot-work involved.(this is strictly practice,not circumstantial evidence;the latter is quite heavy as well,the seamless,instant transition to steel at contact is very suspicious,entirely too abrupt).
 
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