Liquid Metal is here! well at least some prototypes

[NFMee]

One question -- it has been noted that LM contains berillium, which is hazardous to humans. Is this a factor in using LM?? I am inclined to think not, since it is FDA approved to use in scalpels and implants, as R.W. said

thanks

 

[R.W.Clark]

Pricing has still not been nailed down yet. I spoke several time with LMT today and I told them I would need a price quote soon. The only thing that is for sure is that per pound it is cheaper than both Talonite and Stellite. If I were to sell the prototypes the price would be about the same as a Talonite blade due to the massive amount of labor involved. But it is the goal to cut the cost of labor down by production casting the blades.

The berylium is HIGHLY toxic! But that is only during the manufacturing process. So long as you are not breathing in dust (from grinding) or fumes (from burning) it is completely safe. While working it I have to wear a two stage cartridge resperator, work with a high volume of air flow and I use a water trap to get most of the dust. This is not something that the end user would want to try to modify at home (ie adding serrations or changing blade shape).

If it turns out that getting molds made is a ways away I will end up with a full air helmet. This is due to the fact that I will be hand grinding all the bevels. The profiling will be done with a water jet. The water jet is for three reasons. First it cuts down on production time. Second there is less waste of material. Third the risk of excessive heat build up is greatly reduced. At this point for just prototyping and testing, it is not worth the cost of getting a plate cut up.

 

[R.W.Clark]

Doing another round of hands on testing.

Here are the results from the cardboard cutting. The cardboard used was from medium U-haul boxes (new). I tested three blades. The first blade was one of my own MAUs with zone hardened O1, the second blade was Talonite and the third was LM1.

I made 10 cuts with each blade in rotation. After the ten cuts I tested the edge by slicing both newspaper and butcher paper. The numbers below state how many lineal feet of cardboard each knife was able to cut before it lost its ability to cut the newspaper, butcher paper and then the cardboard. I considered a knife to no longer cut the cardboard when it no longer sliced but had to be used with a sawing motion.

The O1 MAU
Stopped slicing newspaper at 330lf
Stopped slicing butcher paper at 330lf
Stopped slicing cardboard at 624lf

The Talonite blade
Stopped slicing newspaper at 210lf
Stopped slicing butcher paper at 270lf
Stopped slicing cardboard at 368lf

The LM1 blade
Stopped slicing newspaper at 360lf
Stopped slicing butcher paper at unknown
Stopped slicing cardboard at unknown

The reason for the unknown is that I ran out of boxes at 810lf!


Here is a photo of what 1802 lineal feet of cardboard looks like.

 

[DEA]

Originally posted by R.W.Clark
Here is a photo of what 1802 lineal feet of cardboard looks like.

 

[brandon]

That's a small fortune in boxes !

 

[WTFOver]

Well...

I game for the 25th. Day before the Super Bowl, no Football so why not? Anyone else want to join in the fun?

What time would work best for you R.W.?

Also, where would you like to do this?
I do see the mailing address on your web site but was not sure if this is where you would want to do this.

BTW E-mail is also comming your way re: a MAU. I've enjoyed pictures of your work posted here for some time. You seem to be just too darn nice... I have to get one now.

 

[blademan 13]

Well, I can certainly see that empty 12 pack of Mountain Dew went to a good cause.

Most impressive results considering the O-1 blades I have from Ron are cutting demons IMO. Or so I thought Looking forward to seeing more in the future on this product.

 

[Rob Simonich]

Where the heck have I been! This is cool stuff Ron. Are you going to be at Vegas Classic to let me look one of these knives over?

Actually, considering when this person decided to make his first post, I would say he is connected to Talonite or Stellite and has a personal agenda with the defeat of a replacement alloy.

I can assure you that is not the case as far as Talonite goes. My only role with Talonite now is sharing info with other makers and users and I am not financially involved at all! The others involved with Talonite are too professional as well and would be intersted in the technology as I am.

 

[Alpha Knife Supply]

Alpha Knife Supply is the exclusive dealer for Talonite. I have no idea who nhamilto40 is or their agenda. I can tell you they are NOT associated with AKS.

I find the continued comparisons to Talonite interesting. Ron, what Talonite knife do you have? Talonite has never been marketed as the end all of blade materials. It is a very specialized material that is best used for specific applications. When a makers calls me and says they plan to make a camp knife from Talonite, I tell them to use a steel like 5160, 52100 or CPM3V. Always use the correct material for the job.

I applaud Ron for getting Liquid metal bar stock. He succeeded where I failed. When the articles first appeared I tried to get some bar stock for testing. After a month of getting no where I gave up.

I look forward to testing a LM knife.

 

[R.W.Clark]

Blademan, heh over 600 feet of cutting is pretty darn good. And remember that the knife still had a functioning edge. It just no longer cleanly sliced.

Rob, I will be in Vegas most likely Friday and Saturday. Maybe into Sunday but I doubt it. I am still sitting on the table waiting list so the chance of getting table space is next to zero. But why pass up an excuss to spend a couple days in Vegas right. I will have a couple LM1 blades with me for anybody who wants to play with them.

Chuck, no offense intended man. I am glad to hear he/she is not in any way related to Talonite. Its just when someone comes on so strongly against something for no real reasons, you wonder if they have a secondary agenda.

The only reason I have been comparing LM1 to Talonite is because Talonite is the best non-magnetic on the market and everyone is familiar with its performance. The talonite blade I have been using is one that I got from Rinaldi. I understand what the intended market for Talonite is. You will not see me trying to cut through blocks and then bitching because it fails. Unfortunatly the areas that LM1 and Talonite are best suited overlap. I did not plan it that way, thats just the way it worked out.

I need to make several new LM1 knives for a upcoming photo shoot. I was hoping to team LM1 with Timascus bolsters and fossil ivory handles for one of the smaller knives. If I can get some from you soon please let me know. I think that the combination of the new state of the art with the ancient would make a striking statment.

I am really looking forward to working with many makers on future LM1 projects.

BTW: it looks like the cut fest will be at my place on the 25th. Anyone and everyone is welcome. If enough folks want to stop by I am proposing that we make an event of it. I am not opposed to a big BBQ lunch. We will cook it if you bring it. (ie, I can not afford to feed anyone).

 

[Alpha Knife Supply]

No offense taken.

I’ve always been a materials geek. That’s one of the reasons I work as an engineer for a big aerospace company! During Blade last year there was a discussion about grain size and its relation to how sharp a knife could get. Within a short amount to time the discussion will switch to molecule size to determine the potentially sharpest edge.

I ‘ll look for you at Vegas. If you want to find me I’ll be in the Ken Onion line hoping to wiln the lottery. I’ll bring some Timascus for show and tell. Don’t forget to bring the LM knives.

 

[tom mayo]

very interestink..........................


and just when I had thought that all the good threads got MOVED!!

 

[Spark]

With respect to the parties involved, just like I do not doubt the veracity of RW's claims, there is no need to be impugning the character of the person who was questioning them.

This site is about information, and the furthering of it. With any new product, material or technique, it's our job to examine it and seperate the facts from the hype.

I read those posts and I didn't see anything other than a dose of healthy skepticism and some numbers being tossed out. When called on mistakes, they were corrected. Does he have an agenda? I don't know, nor am I making a statement one way or another. All I'm saying is, let's give everyone the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

Kevin

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Significant dermal absorption of beryllium is unlikely, due to its chemical properties. It is most likely to cause problems when ingested or breathed in. That being said, I would still be very careful to wear clothing that would not allow for continued exposure of beryllium to the skin.

As far as I am concerned, I see no hidden agenda in the comments made by nhamilo40. He is presenting a differing opinion, which is good for a debate. There are some definite points about liquid metal that need to be investigated. For instance, how will it stand up to the passage of time. Glass continues to flow after it has hardened and this will lead to the dulling of blades made from liquid metal even if they are never used.

 

[Jim Smyth]

R.W.

It's good to see someone again pushing the envelope for everyone to benefit from and enjoy. Knifemakers are unique, always trying to improve on tried and true methods. Very interesting stuff there! I wouldnt mind trying a bar or two when they become available. I like the idea of no rust as with 6K or 6BH. Just a quick question, you said you went thru a few cobalt drill bits making the holes. I use Carbide for my 6K and 6BH. Did you try carbide and if so how did they work? I also assume you have to grind it away because it wont bandsaw? TIA

 

[ExamonLyf]

Fun stuff...."Pushing the Envelope" is what it's always been about..


"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"

 

[mckgreg]

The thing about it is, anyone who can make a mold from an object could.................
Greg

 

[R.W.Clark]

could......... What?


If you are thinking that this casting can be done in a small shop, forget it. The technology for the casting is closely guarded. I do not even know in detail how it is done. I do know that it involves several million dollars in equipment.

 

[R.W.Clark]

I use Carbide for my 6K and 6BH. Did you try carbide and if so how did they work? I also assume you have to grind it away because it wont bandsaw? TIA

Carbide bits have a much easier time with LM1. For now I just am not using them. The only reason that I am not is due to cost. A good carbide bit can run up in the $50-$60 range. I get my cobalts for about $1.50 apiece. For the limited number of holes I drill in LM1 its just cheaper for now to stick with cobalt.

You do have to grind away a profile. Bandsaw blades just do not stand a chance against LM1. There is also that heat issue again. Its best to just hydro cut the blades profile. Hydro will also take care of the hole drilling as well.

Glass continues to flow after it has hardened and this will lead to the dulling of blades made from liquid metal even if they are never used.

This is a valid concern. However I think that it has already proven not to be the case. If LM1 did dull with time, it would not be seeing the success that it has been with surgical blades. With the super thin edges on these blades they would show degeneration rather quickly. That would mean that they would have a very short shelf life. That has not been happening. So I think that we can put that problem to bed. However, I will double check on that when I talk with LMT on Monday.

 

[dogboye]

Originally posted by R.W.Clark
WTFOver, it is completely non-magnetic. However, just like all other non-magnetic allows it does have a signature. It shows up like a strobe light when checked with metal detectors. That is why it makes such a good anti-theft device. When it passes through the security gate it leaves a very obviuos signature pattern that is easy to seperate from other matallic items.

I'm surprised by this (NOT calling you a liar, just don't understand). The anti-theft devices that I THOUGHT the red article was talking about was the kind that is housed in a little rectangle on the item. That device has two metallic items in it that I have been told (can't in any way vouch for the veracity of what that person told me) vibrated in the presence of the theft detectors, and the detectors picked up the resonance. Also, I don't understand how a pass over the deactivation plate at the counter subdues the properties, if the stuff simply shows up like a strobe. But I guess all that is for another thread. Plus, I haven't read further than the first page (20-ish posts) on this thread at the time of this writing.

Originally posted by R.W.Clark
I have even heard vague rumors that polymor firearm frames may be heading out the door (but thats just a rumor of coarse).

Now THAT would be sweet. The advantages of polymer, but with the capability of having nice grips?