Lock Strength - Spyderco Paramilitary 2 vs Cold Steel Hold Out II

To me , lock strength IS very important. I own more Spydercos than any other company, and the compression lock is my favorite. Furthermore, I I think it is a much stronger lock that the video portrayed it to be.

That said, I trust my Cold Steel Triad lock knives much more than any others. They see the most outdoor use by far. I hike most weekends and do some trail running, and while I carry a fixed blade much of the time, sometimes I opt for a lightweight folder. The Triad lock just laughs off everything.

I suspect that while the videos are off putting to some, they provide a visual representation of lock strength that, while not necessarily important to many people, are impressive enough to win over a bunch of consumers. To a non knife nut, watching a lock hold 400 lbs is much more impressive than edge geometry or alloy content and equals more money in Cold Steel's pockets.
 
jstn said:
To me , lock strength IS very important. I own more Spydercos than any other company, and the compression lock is my favorite. Furthermore, I I think it is a much stronger lock that the video portrayed it to be.

Umm....why do you think that, based on the video which clearly "portrayed" the strength/weakness of both knives??

That said, I trust my Cold Steel Triad lock knives much more than any others. They see the most outdoor use by far. I hike most weekends and do some trail running, and while I carry a fixed blade much of the time, sometimes I opt for a lightweight folder. The Triad lock just laughs off everything.

You think it is a much stronger lock that the video portrayed it to be, yet you carry the CS. Why would that be?.


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Insipid Moniker said:
Might be a bad contest if your goal is to show up Cold Steel on this one. Same stock thickness, same grind, but the Hold Out 2 has a broader blade which means a higher grind and a slightly better angle for slicing. Real world it would come down to which was thinner behind the edge and, realistically, that would probably go back and forth between the two based on the individual sample.

That's part of what cracks me up about Cold Steels marketing. Ignore that for a second and look at the knives they're actually making. They use thinner stock than many, many companies (Spyderco Military has 4mm blade stock, Recon 1? 3.5mm), the grinds and edges are generally much better suited to slicing than abuse and they've removed steel liners from almost every model they make.

Cold Steel licensed a tremendously strong locking mechanism so they market the hell out of it, but they clearly don't believe that strength is the most important aspect of a folding knife or their designs would be very different. I like Cold Steel because they make a broad range of simple, working knives that cut well are lightweight and are very reliable.
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I don't own either knife used in the video. Never held them either. I don't have a problem with objective testing but only testing the lock without showing the failure point of their own product shows how these videos are just more marketing trash. I would rather see tests for how the knives function as cutting tools rather than weight hangers. For all I know their knife will break at 1 lb more than the competition.

Spyderco has a well deserved reputation for producing quality knives. Cold Steel has videos of fat guys slashing hanging meat. I would like to see them focus on other aspects of knives and use less gimmicks. If their knives can out perform Spyderco flagship models then that is something to brag about. I would probably buy their knives if they could show that.
 
If we're talking about the blade not folding under load, use one that didn't need a "repair" as part of its construction. :thumbup:

No need to wave. Fast to deploy. Easy to clean up. Lighter for the same blade. Probably cheaper for the same blade.
 
Thomas Linton said:
If we're talking about the blade not folding under load, use one that didn't need a "repair" as part of its construction. :thumbup:

No need to wave. Fast to deploy. Easy to clean up. Lighter for the same blade. Probably cheaper for the same blade.
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Hmmm...some love to impress us with their erudite articulation. I hope someone can decipher that post. I sure can't.
 
Fanglekai said:
I don't own either knife used in the video. Never held them either. I don't have a problem with objective testing but only testing the lock without showing the failure point of their own product shows how these videos are just more marketing trash. I would rather see tests for how the knives function as cutting tools rather than weight hangers. For all I know their knife will break at 1 lb more than the competition.

Spyderco has a well deserved reputation for producing quality knives. Cold Steel has videos of fat guys slashing hanging meat. I would like to see them focus on other aspects of knives and use less gimmicks. If their knives can out perform Spyderco flagship models then that is something to brag about. I would probably buy their knives if they could show that.
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I have no issues with anyone not buying Cold Steel knives for any reason, but I assure you that they cut very, very well. Thin grinds, thin behind the edge and they rarely use blade stock that's inappropriately thick. I wouldn't say they outperform Spyderco in that particular field but, on the whole and in my experience, they're pretty even. And CS is definitely a step up from the average Benchmade or Kershaw/ZT offering in terms of cutting efficiency.

With all of that said, I still prefer the PM2 to the Hold Out 2 as I like the total package better, but which one cuts better is almost certainly a toss up, with the Hold Out having a very slight edge.
 
Thomas Linton said:
A lot of controversy over poor replacements for fixed-blade.
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Folders are poor replacements for fixed blades. But many, if not most, of us cannot carry a fixed blade wherever we can take a folder. And if we accept the premise that any folder is a poor replacement, why wouldn't we want the best of the worst? Lock strength is a far cry from everything, but it's certainly not nothing.
 
Do a CKRT knife next!!

Maybe that fancy new virtual lock they have. I hear it's like a fixed blade.
 
Cutting is basically down to edge geometry, and how long it holds the edge is down to metal composition and heat treatment.

I have an Eland that is 5¼" of razor sharp cutty goodness. Sure the 4116 doesn't hold the edge for a long time, but it resharpens easily too. Heck, I have a couple of Spanish navaja that take a sharp edge easily on 420 steel. I've never used them for more than cutting paper so I don't know how long they'd hold that edge of course.

Put the old AUS8 4" clip point Voyager up against much more expensive knives with their chunky sharpened pry bar blades and it'd cut rings around them, at least until the edge faded. On the other hand an Opinel #8 would outcut the Voyager and even when the edge faded the sheer thinness of the knife would keep it cutting quite well.

Cold Steel make good cutting knives, just like Spyderco do. They do these lock test videos because, from the start, their shtick has been making strong knives. Do they need to be that strong? The ring lock on my Eland is more than strong enough for my usage, and if we want to talk about using a knife as a weapon, it's likely that more people have been injured or killed with cheap Okapi ring lock knives than with Espada XLs. They don't need to be that strong, but Cold Steel put their money where their mouth is and make them that strong, so they're going to advertise that fact.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Folders are poor replacements for fixed blades. But many, if not most, of us cannot carry a fixed blade wherever we can take a folder. And if we accept the premise that any folder is a poor replacement, why wouldn't we want the best of the worst? Lock strength is a far cry from everything, but it's certainly not nothing.
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Plus 1
 
Ok, some of you are missing the point completely, when a knife is called " paramilitary" is not intended for cutting oranges, so don't come here to discuss "EDCability" and cutting ergonomics. The knifes compared are not Swiss knives, they are intended for use and abuse. Shame on Cold steel if they were bragging over tri ad lock exploits against buck or Boker classical slip joints , which are not intended to de used as tactical folders. But if you pic a knife that is called "Military" or " Para -military" then customers are being misguided on purpose toward their intended use. My five cents ..
 
AntonioAhumada said:
But if you pic a knife that is called "Military" or " Para -military" then customers are being misguided on purpose toward their intended use. My five cents ..
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The Military was designed as a utility knife for soldiers, not a fighter.
Look up the history of it...I'm not making it up.

The Civilian was designed as a fighting blade...so much for names. :D
 
stabman said:
The Military was designed as a utility knife for soldiers, not a fighter.
Look up the history of it...I'm not making it up.

The Civilian was designed as a fighting blade...so much for names. :D
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Names are for marketing, right? The implication of "military" would not seem to be "kitchen implement."
 
Thomas Linton said:
Names are for marketing, right? The implication of "military" would not seem to be "kitchen implement."
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But the Civilian was originally for undercover drug agents.
The Dodo was never marketed for, or by, an extinct bird.
The Spin doesn't spin very well.
The Lava is actually made of steel, not magma.
The Delica isn't very delicate.
The Tatanka may be named after a buffalo, but doesn't taste like one. :eek:
The Cricket doesn't hop.


The only one that is really entirely descriptive is the Whale Rescue Blade. :)
 
Thomas Linton said:
Didn't expect you could. :p
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Ooooh, OOhhh....clearly you're so much smarter than the rest of us. You're so smart it's Downright scary....
I'm sure people who have been on the forum much longer than I already know that. Why do you waste your time bothering to attempt communicating with us dullards?
 
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