Lock Test Videos: Room For Improvement

[Fire_Brand]

The lock test videos have sparked a lot of discussion, and by Andrew's own admission a lot of hate mail. Personally I really enjoy them and it is interesting to see, I also like that they are doing their best to make the testing between the two knives in the same video as consistent as possible.

All that said, I think there is room for improvement and a few things that I personally would really like to see and I think others here would agree. First and foremost (and least likely to be delivered) I want all of the testing to include destruction of BOTH knives. If the CS knife outlasts the other cold steel has already won, but we'll never know by what margin unless they continue on until the cold steel knife has broken as well. This would be useful to know and then Cold Steel would be living up to the test they challenge everyone else with: think your knives are tough? Prove how tough they are. The relativity is nice but you can never run a true comparison unless you know what the actual breaking point is. You just know that this knife is stronger than that knife, by how much? Who knows?

Second keep your testing technique consistent from one test to another so that you can truly use the testing to rank knives on a scale. If the test isn't consistent then there is no comparing between results, because again it is all relative ONLY to the other knife in the video which obviously they are going to be selective and choose a knife they know will win. So what I mean by this is use a constant distance from the pivot for hanging the weight so that the torque is always going to be the same. I could probably hang 600 pounds from a delica if it was a tenth of an inch away from the pivot because the torque would be relatively small. Likewise saying a knife holds x amount of pounds is meaningless because that doesn't equate to the force against the lock. If I run my knife over with a truck does that mean it held 5000 pounds? But if they were to make the test so that the weight ALWAYS hangs 4 inches from the center of the pivot then you'd have a true comparison.

All knives are not equal and comparing a thin light folder to a heavy duty folder doesn't make sense so I understand tailoring the test to an extent for the knives. But really, rather than adjust the test to be more or less strenuous people just need to adjust expectations accordingly. If a Ti-Lite fails at 100lb's (just making this number up, have no idea what it really is) that isn't a big deal and if you keep the test consistent I will know exactly how that knife lines up to any other just by checking the failing weight.

I think you get the idea now, but just so I don't leave it out I think the same consistency should be expected across the board. Ex: spin wacks always hit the same distance from the pivot, same number of strikes same weight. And finally use a new knife for each test. Some knives are going to be more susceptible to different forms of punishment so it is unfair to cripple one and then draw a concrete result in the next test.

I like the videos because they are entertaining and it gives you a slight idea about two knives capabilities. But since they are doing all this testing anyway, why not start to build up some useful comparable data so that any knives that have gone through the cold steel gauntlet can now be compared?

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Agreed with all these points, but the real kicker is that if you really want your tests to be scientific you need both larger sample sizes and an independent, unbiased third party doing the testing. Both of those, however, would make the testing prohibitively expensive.

 

[Stays Sharp]

How about respecting other makers though?

This isn't like Crest Vs Colgate where one can publish how it gets superior results ie whiter teeth than the other. This is like Ford producing a video of them crashing other brands' cars for the public.

It's just tasteless. Just my honest opinion, please don't catch feelings.

 

[Noswad0208]

How about respecting other makers though?

This isn't like Crest Vs Colgate where one can publish how it gets superior results ie whiter teeth than the other. This is like Ford producing a video of them crashing other brands' cars for the public.

It's just tasteless. Just my honest opinion, please don't catch feelings.

This. I agreed with all the points made by the OP but Stays Sharp is on point perfectly. I'm sure ZT or Spyderco could wreck a Cold Steel if they wanted to.

 

[Fire_Brand]

Agreed with all these points, but the real kicker is that if you really want your tests to be scientific you need both larger sample sizes and an independent, unbiased third party doing the testing. Both of those, however, would make the testing prohibitively expensive.

Agreed, but honestly I'm not looking for a totally scientific test. I'm sure you'd get slight variations from knife to knife but I'd be absolutely ecstatic if they only did the things I suggested and I think that while it would be far from perfect it would still give a pretty good indication of a locks strength and you could compare knives in different tests.

These additions wouldn't really cost them anything but I think they will be a hard sell for cold steel because they probably don't want to show their own knives failing (even if they are stronger) and it is also nice to be able to adjust tests to your advantage. I think if the test were very consistent we would start to see a much wider range of failing points where the knives with thicker handles and blades and a larger pivot area would outlast the other knives many times over. Right now they are at a point where they can say "our knives are stronger than the competition" rather than saying this is how strong our knives are.

One of the things that would come up for sure is that some of the competing knives would beat out some of their knives, just not necessarily in the initial match up they performed. Like I'm sure the spyderco tatanka would beat out many of cold steels knives even though it didn't beat the voyager, etc.

 

[Stays Sharp]

I am thoroughly impressed with CS folders' fit and finish and I can't say enough how much I love Demko's lock. That's the thing, the truth always surfaces and CS' quality and lock strength will speak for itself. Through word of mouth and reputation. As it stands, the Triad is generally regarded as the strongest lock by most everyone anyway.

I am in a way, derailing what OP is trying to get into so have at it.

 

[Fire_Brand]

How about respecting other makers though?

This isn't like Crest Vs Colgate where one can publish how it gets superior results ie whiter teeth than the other. This is like Ford producing a video of them crashing other brands' cars for the public.

It's just tasteless. Just my honest opinion, please don't catch feelings.

I see where you are coming from but I want to avoid that debate in this thread if possible. I understand people's perspective on it and the issues there are but cold steel will keep being cold steel and they are going to do it anyway. If that is the case we may as well ask for better data.

My perspective is if they are willing to say their knives are the strongest and they are willing to break other companies knives to prove this, then out of fairness and the knife communities interest they should continue the test until they break their knives as well. Because now we know what it takes to break a spyderco, zt etc. but when does their knife break? It isn't fair to stop as soon as the other knife breaks because then all we really know is what the limits of that knife are, not cold steels.

 

[Jens Schuetz]

One more improvement.

Somehow make sure that the clamped in surfaces offer the same amount of friction. The torque on the screw might be the same but if the handle is teflon coated it will slip when spine whacked and thus reduce the force on blade and pivot.

Actually why not fix the handle with 2 screws?
Then there is no wiggling and slipping/ spinning away and all the whacking force gets transferred to pivot lock and blade. Easier to compare and also avoids pinching a handle so much that things might deform in a disadvantageous way just from tightening the screw to hold the knife.

 

[Fire_Brand]

One more improvement.

Somehow make sure that the clamped in surfaces offer the same amount of friction. The torque on the screw might be the same but if the handle is teflon coated it will slip when spine whacked and thus reduce the force on blade and pivot.

Actually why not fix the handle with 2 screws?
Then there is no wiggling and slipping/ spinning away and all the whacking force gets transferred to pivot lock and blade. Easier to compare and also avoids pinching a handle so much that things might deform in a disadvantageous way just from tightening the screw to hold the knife.

Very good call! That would make the tests much fairer. I really don't see why this wasn't the setup from the very beginning. I mean they only have to drill one hole for the weight hang, but if they used two knives this wouldn't be an issue. Or if they are worried about integrity after drilling two holes they could just hook it to the arm with hose clamps or something instead.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

How about respecting other makers though?

This isn't like Crest Vs Colgate where one can publish how it gets superior results ie whiter teeth than the other. This is like Ford producing a video of them crashing other brands' cars for the public.

It's just tasteless. Just my honest opinion, please don't catch feelings.

No offense taken and none intended, but I find this attitude a bit odd. Many people seem to be completely fine with Cold Steel claiming to have the strongest lock in the industry, but are put off when they try to provide the evidence to back up their claims. For one thing, the only thing they're testing is lock strength and that's a far cry from the only thing, or even the first thing, I look for in a folding knife. Honestly, I'd love to see to see every knife company put out more testing data.

 

[Stays Sharp]

Insipid, just very different ways of looking at it which is why you find it odd.

I never purchased a car off of crash tests. Knives off of break tests... I can go on forever.

Like I said, the truth always surfaces and there are classier ways for letting them unfold. People will buy their knives because of what they are, not because of their own tests (methinks).

 

[ursamajor]

How about respecting other makers though?

This isn't like Crest Vs Colgate where one can publish how it gets superior results ie whiter teeth than the other. This is like Ford producing a video of them crashing other brands' cars for the public.

It's just tasteless. Just my honest opinion, please don't catch feelings.

I hope that makers start hating each other, and looking to put each other out of business. No feelings, but I am a consumer, and love the free market.

When you have competitors, who look to tear the throats out of their competition, you get innovation, and competitive pricing. The industry works for the benefit of the consumer.

When you have the major players in an industry holding hands, skipping through the meadows, singing kumbaya, you end up with a cartel. DeBeers is a perfect example. That does not work towards the benefit of the consumer. It victimizes the consumer.

You want the competitors in an industry to full on hate one another. And to hate each other for no other reason, then because they are there, and are competition.

When makers start going full on bar room brawl at Blade, you will know that the industry is truly in line with the consumer's interests.

 

[jbmonkey]

I sure would like to see the cold steel knives tested until breakage. One reason is i own some of these and while ill never use them to those testing levels by any means......its interesting and informative for what it is. While these tests are mainly marketing to show the value and durability for these tests to drive sales. So breaking the cold steel even at ridiculous levels of weight and testing doesn't exactly help the marketing message of how much better these knives are than the competition, since they didn't break and still are functional...but that has zero impact on me. I know better........the marketing isn't driving me towards a cold steel over any other maker. That said.... Cold steel will still get my money regardless, on products i like.

So long ramble over.....test the cold steel until it breaks too........thanks.

 

[jstrange]

One thing I have noticed that may or may not play a part in the final outcome is the weights on the left side in the weight hanging test usually spin more that the stack on the right. It may be from that side being closer to the release lever, but whatever it is, it sure seems to move a lot more. I am no engineer so I have no idea if that's an advantage or disadvantage.

 

[Stays Sharp]

I hope that makers start hating each other, and looking to put each other out of business. No feelings, but I am a consumer, and love the free market.

When you have competitors, who look to tear the throats out of their competition, you get innovation, and competitive pricing. The industry works for the benefit of the consumer.

When you have the major players in an industry holding hands, skipping through the meadows, singing kumbaya, you end up with a cartel. DeBeers is a perfect example. That does not work towards the benefit of the consumer. It victimizes the consumer.

You want the competitors in an industry to full on hate one another. And to hate each other for no other reason, then because they are there, and are competition.

When makers start going full on bar room brawl at Blade, you will know that the industry is truly in line with the consumer's interests.

That's not exactly my position sir. You are making it sound like I want these knife companies to j*** each other off. Sheesh.

 

[Stays Sharp]

I agree with the essence of your post btw.

 

[insta9ves]

I hope that makers start hating each other, and looking to put each other out of business. No feelings, but I am a consumer, and love the free market.

When you have competitors, who look to tear the throats out of their competition, you get innovation, and competitive pricing. The industry works for the benefit of the consumer.

When you have the major players in an industry holding hands, skipping through the meadows, singing kumbaya, you end up with a cartel. DeBeers is a perfect example. That does not work towards the benefit of the consumer. It victimizes the consumer.

You want the competitors in an industry to full on hate one another. And to hate each other for no other reason, then because they are there, and are competition.

When makers start going full on bar room brawl at Blade, you will know that the industry is truly in line with the consumer's interests.

+1

Competition is important for the improvement of products and the advancement of the industry. Ever wonder why the US has relatively low internet speed compared to other countries such as Korea, HK or Singapore? Because that industry is pretty much an oligopoly, and therefore consumer has less bargaining power.

To me, CS simply provided some transparencies on their test results, and the other companies should back up their claim with some evidence, not just with consumer's subjective opinion. It's not an unhealthy competition IMO.

 

[Sky Pilot]

Some may find these vids offensive, but when another knifemaker claims to have a knife with the strongest lock on the market, CS is not going to just let that claim go unchallenged.

 

[Stays Sharp]

Some may find these vids offensive, but when another knifemaker claims to have a knife with the strongest lock on the market, CS is not going to just let that claim go unchallenged.

Which knifemakers have made this claim besides CS?

 

[Fanglekai]

Which knifemakers have made this claim besides CS?

I certainly can't think of any, but that doesn't mean CS shouldn't try to back up their marketing with some testing. It's better than other companies that spew "hard use overbuilt" marketing bs and never back any of it up.