Lock Test Videos: Room For Improvement

All good points
Let start by saying the response is much more positive than negative. Could I do a lot of thinks better, probably. Let me address a few points.
Distance of weight hang, 4" from pivot is ideal but not always possible. I plan to give a little more info in the videos. I do not test the winning knife ,so far all cold steel, to failure because I look at it like two gladiators. Would you kill the winning gladiator from a dual of let him live to fight another opponent? I have no idea what knives cold steel will send me but many knives may be called on again to match the contender most fairly. To be honest there is no perfect way to test/compare two knives that are of different design. That's why we test to our standards, based on what we feel is important to us. Please note every other attribute Cutting, prying, stabbing etc. are all based on the design of the knife and it's blade geometry that's all designed in from the beginning. Really no surprises there but the locking system must come first.
 
DemkoKnives said:
I do not test the winning knife ,so far all cold steel, to failure because I look at it like two gladiators. Would you kill the winning gladiator from a dual of let him live to fight another opponent?
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Except it's not like that at all. We would like to see exactly how strong the "strongest lock on the planet" is. You're not testing the knives from older tests from what I've seen, so it's not "living to fight another opponent" is it?
 
We have not yet, but we may. I really don't known the future of this issue. All I can tell you is no matter what I do some people will like some will not.
 
DemkoKnives said:
All good points
Let start by saying the response is much more positive than negative. Could I do a lot of thinks better, probably. Let me address a few points.
Distance of weight hang, 4" from pivot is ideal but not always possible. I plan to give a little more info in the videos. I do not test the winning knife ,so far all cold steel, to failure because I look at it like two gladiators. Would you kill the winning gladiator from a dual of let him live to fight another opponent? I have no idea what knives cold steel will send me but many knives may be called on again to match the contender most fairly. To be honest there is no perfect way to test/compare two knives that are of different design. That's why we test to our standards, based on what we feel is important to us. Please note every other attribute Cutting, prying, stabbing etc. are all based on the design of the knife and it's blade geometry that's all designed in from the beginning. Really no surprises there but the locking system must come first.
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Why not fix the handle solid with 2 screws/clamps for the spine whacking test?

Having only one screw (even fastened with the same torque) lets the knives spin away differently based on their handle material.

Just picture one handle Teflon coated aluminum while the other is steel with a surface rough as a file. The file will be stuck even with one screw and all force be transferred to the lock. The Teflon handle one will simply swing away and thus have less energy transferred to the lock.

Why not fix every handle in two points?
 
DemkoKnives said:
We have not yet, but we may. I really don't known the future of this issue. All I can tell you is no matter what I do some people will like some will not.
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+1

hater's gonna hate. keep doing what you are doing Mr. Demko, i for one appreciate it.
 
So then its all marketing and not for information and education. So be it.
 
Jens Schuetz said:
Why not fix the handle solid with 2 screws/clamps for the spine whacking test?

Having only one screw (even fastened with the same torque) lets the knives spin away differently based on their handle material.

Just picture one handle Teflon coated aluminum while the other is steel with a surface rough as a file. The file will be stuck even with one screw and all force be transferred to the lock. The Teflon handle one will simply swing away and thus have less energy transferred to the lock.

Why not fix every handle in two points?
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Without any room to move the knives would break sooner, probably at the point of the blade where it hits the stop. The movement allows the lock to spring and unlock.
 
DemkoKnives said:
All good points
Let start by saying the response is much more positive than negative. Could I do a lot of thinks better, probably. Let me address a few points.
Distance of weight hang, 4" from pivot is ideal but not always possible. I plan to give a little more info in the videos. I do not test the winning knife ,so far all cold steel, to failure because I look at it like two gladiators. Would you kill the winning gladiator from a dual of let him live to fight another opponent? I have no idea what knives cold steel will send me but many knives may be called on again to match the contender most fairly. To be honest there is no perfect way to test/compare two knives that are of different design. That's why we test to our standards, based on what we feel is important to us. Please note every other attribute Cutting, prying, stabbing etc. are all based on the design of the knife and it's blade geometry that's all designed in from the beginning. Really no surprises there but the locking system must come first.
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Andrew, I really appreciate the response!

I definitely understand that the 4" distance isn't always possible, but as an alternative I guess you really don't need to keep the distance consistent, but rather than reporting the amount of weight just convert to torque every time since that is the key part.

While I really respect your opinion, I've got to disagree with you on the rest of your points. There is no comparison between the two blades if you don't break them both. The gladiator analogy is fun but doesn't really apply. The biggest reason this doesn't apply is because you/cold steel are the ones designing the lineup of which knife is compared to which so rather than it being a badge of honor that no cold steel knife has lost it is really more a sign of bias. It should be a red flag that none of your knives have "lost" in this test. And while I would agree that there is no perfect way to test/compare two knives that are of different design it would be improved 10 times over if you broke both knives because then the both are truly put on the scale for their absolute toughness.

Maybe a bit of mudslinging, but cold steel needs to stand and deliver on this for me to consider these videos anything more than entertainment and marketing. Are they afraid of really seeing what their knives can take and letting the public know? Because right now it seems like it.

Finally you can't really write off "other attributes" like cutting, prying stabbing because they are design based. Everything is design based including the lock, cold steel just happens to choose the tri-ad lock (nearly) every time. For me blade design and geometry comes first, these are knives after-all.
 
ursamajor said:
Spyderco
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No. That is not something they do. Please share quotes/sources.

What they said about the Power lock was that that "It's a lock developed in house and it is the strongest lock we have". No claims about the strongest against its competitors. That is the closest Ive seen.

It is about having standards. I am fully aware that not everyone holds themselves to the same level though which is why some like you do not mind.
 
jbmonkey said:
So then its all marketing and not for information and education. So be it.
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That was painfully obvious from the start. Reminds me of those videos where brand A's truck pulls two or three of brand B's truck. Everyone knows it's just marketing, but the fans of brand A eat it up and say that it's definitive proof that brand A's truck is superior.
 
Fire_Brand said:
Andrew, I really appreciate the response!

I definitely understand that the 4" distance isn't always possible, but as an alternative I guess you really don't need to keep the distance consistent, but rather than reporting the amount of weight just convert to torque every time since that is the key part.

While I really respect your opinion, I've got to disagree with you on the rest of your points. There is no comparison between the two blades if you don't break them both. The gladiator analogy is fun but doesn't really apply. The biggest reason this doesn't apply is because you/cold steel are the ones designing the lineup of which knife is compared to which so rather than it being a badge of honor that no cold steel knife has lost it is really more a sign of bias. It should be a red flag that none of your knives have "lost" in this test. And while I would agree that there is no perfect way to test/compare two knives that are of different design it would be improved 10 times over if you broke both knives because then the both are truly put on the scale for their absolute toughness.

Maybe a bit of mudslinging, but cold steel needs to stand and deliver on this for me to consider these videos anything more than entertainment and marketing. Are they afraid of really seeing what their knives can take and letting the public know? Because right now it seems like it.

Finally you can't really write off "other attributes" like cutting, prying stabbing because they are design based. Everything is design based including the lock, cold steel just happens to choose the tri-ad lock (nearly) every time. For me blade design and geometry comes first, these are knives after-all.
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If you remember the first test we did take the voyager to failure with the spyderco. Then we realized if I break all our knives up who would want to the same model vs another knife, were would the suspense be.
 
DemkoKnives said:
If you remember the first test we did take the voyager to failure with the spyderco. Then we realized if I break all our knives up who would want to the same model vs another knife, were would the suspense be.
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Tests shouldn't be about "suspense." They should be about information.
 
Stays Sharp said:
No. That is not something they do. Please share quotes/sources.

What they said about the Power lock was that that "It's a lock developed in house and it is the strongest lock we have". No claims about the strongest against its competitors. That is the closest Ive seen.

It is about having standards. I am fully aware that not everyone holds themselves to the same level though which is why some like you do not mind.
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You make it sound like an ethical dilemma. What issue is there with comparative testing as long as you accurately present your findings? Testing is absolutely worthless without comparison, as without that we'll never have an acceptable standard to go by. I realize this kind of testing is a far cry from fantastic evidence, but it's literally the best lock strength testing we have access to.
 
hkyew said:
+1

hater's gonna hate. keep doing what you are doing Mr. Demko, i for one appreciate it.
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I know this may not have been directed at me but I don't want people to misunderstand me. I really like what they are doing, it is cool, entertaining and I wish more makers would do similar types of testing, but maybe for other things like checking blades heat treats, edge retention tests etc. It's cool to see these tests in action and see abuse we probably wouldn't do ourselves.

The purpose of this thread was to point out that with a few minor, inexpensive adjustments they could go from just entertaining, to building up some real, valuable data.

It is risky because they would lose some of the control on the results, and they need to be okay with the possibility of a competitors knife testing better than some of their own. But really, when has transparency ever hurt a company? People respect that immensely and I really don't think it would cause someone to change their mind about buying a cold steel. Everyone knows their knives are tough as nails and likely, the majority of the time their knives will still win. The greatest benefit to cold steel would be the positive PR, I mean look at all of the split opinions in this thread alone, a lot of people feel pretty strongly about these tests. If they were willing to pull back the curtain and break their own knives for the sake of informing the consumer the return on investment in goodwill would be amazing. Let's face it, cold steel isn't afraid to upset people and I don't think they should soften their opinions to appease the public, but in this case it is only their own pride getting in the way of a great opportunity.
 
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