Michigan Banning all Lockbacks

CJ Buck

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Joined
Apr 15, 1999
Messages
898
There is a bill currently in the committee on Criminal Justice that was introduced as House Bill No. 5797. There are rumors of a Michigan Senate bill #6797 but I did not find anything on that bill from Statenet.

This bill adds verbage into existing switchblade law that state "Any sharp-edged, multibladed device, capable of being carried on the person, with blades that are, or can be, locked into place for use as a weapon."

What this means is that locking blades are being equated only with increasing the effectiveness of a knife as a weapon and they are ingnoring the obvious safety issues for making folding knives lock.

AKTI has not yet decided what is our best course to convince Michigan state legislators that lockbacks are for safety and keep this from passing.

AKTI needs to hear from someone local with some recommendations on who might be available in the area to take point, ie... a local attorney etc....

Here is the total bill text as I downloaded off Statenet: the underlining did not translate so I hope I have changed the color of anything new. :)

In bill text the following has special meaning
underline denotes added text
struck out text denotes deleted text

2003 MI H 5797
AUTHOR: Smith
VERSION: Introduced
VERSION DATE: 04/22/2004



HOUSE BILL No. 5797



April 22, 2004, Introduced by Reps. Smith and Hood and referred to the
Committee on Criminal Justice.




A bill to amend 1931 PA 328, entitled

"The Michigan penal code,"

by amending sections 224 and 227 (MCL 750.224 and 750.227), section 224 as amended by 1991 PA 33 and section 227 as amended by 1986 PA 8.




THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN ENACT:

Sec. 224. (1) A person shall not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, or possess any of the following:

(a) A machine gun or firearm that shoots or is designed to shoot automatically more than 1 shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.

(b) A muffler or silencer.

(c) A bomb or bombshell.

(d) A blackjack, slungshot, billy, metallic knuckles, sand club, sand bag, or bludgeon.

(e) A device, weapon, cartridge, container, or contrivance designed to render a person temporarily or permanently disabled by the ejection, release, or emission of a gas or other substance.

(f) Any sharp-edged, multibladed device, capable of being carried on the person, with blades that are, or can be, locked into place for use as a weapon.

(2) A person who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a felony , punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years , or a fine of not more than $2,500.00, or both.

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to any of the following:

(a) A self-defense spray device as defined in section 224d.

(b) A person manufacturing firearms, explosives, or munitions of war by virtue of a contract with a department of the government of the United States.

(c) A person licensed by the secretary of the treasury of the United States or the secretary's delegate to manufacture, sell, or possess a machine gun , or a device, weapon, cartridge, container, or contrivance described in subsection (1).

(d) A person possessing a weapon described in subsection (1) pursuant to his or her duties with the armed forces of the United States.

(e) A person manufacturing, selling, offering to sell, or possessing a device described in subsection (1)(f) in the course of a lawful trade, profession, or occupation.


(4) As used in this chapter, "muffler" or "silencer" means 1 or more of the following:

(a) A device for muffling, silencing, or deadening the report of a firearm.

(b) A combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a muffler or silencer.

(c) A part, designed or redesigned, and intended only for use in assembling or fabricating a muffler or silencer.

Sec. 227. (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, a dirk, a stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of any length, a sharp-edged multibladed device with blades capable of being locked into place for use as a weapon, or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such a hunting knife , concealed on or about his or her person , or , whether concealed or otherwise , in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house , or place of business or on other land possessed by the person.

(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person , or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house , or place of business , or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and , if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such the license.

(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony , punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years , or by a fine of not more than $2,500.00.




Copyright 2004 State Net. All Rights Reserved.
 
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Messages
90
what's up with the "multibladed" language? What are they really targeting here? Leatherman tools? The rare double bladed folder? Some odd martial arts weapon? This IS strange legislation.

Seth
 
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Messages
31
Whoops! I was planning to spend the summer up that way. I suppose I could leave my SwissTool home. Wait...I live in a motorhome and was planning to bring it with me!

Clearly someone is suffering from a severe case of rectal defilade.
 

CRH

Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
432
You Michigan people gotta write your representatives and explain to them the falacy of all this!

Thanks for the heads up C.J.
 
Joined
Jul 18, 2003
Messages
1,889
Here is what I wrote to my reps

Hello,

I wanted to write to you and express my concerns about this proposed legislation (HOUSE BILL No. 5797).

I see a locking knife as a tool and I carry one or two with me every day. I use them at work, in the yard,
in restaurants and any time I need to cut something.
I'm really concerned about some of the wording in this bill such as:

(f) Any sharp-edged, multi bladed device, capable of being carried on the person, with blades that are, or can be, locked into place for use as a weapon.

This could easily include my leatherman multi-tool since it has two locking blades. It could also include a swiss army knife since the newer ones have locking blades.
I can't imagine people buying leatherman tools and swiss army knives specifically as weapons... I need to carry my leatherman at work to be able to fix equipment that would require a small toolbox otherwise. I really fear when the government decides that there are things that we cannot be trusted with as citizens. The majority of people that carry a pocket knife do so to cut all the little things that come up during the day that need cutting, not as weapons to hurt people. The minority is going to use something else to hurt people or just use the locking knife anyway.
A locking blade is a safety feature designed to protect finders from closing blades. Anything can be used as a weapon if someone decides to do so. A screwdriver, hammer, baseball bat, golf club, metal pen and many other items that people carry on themselves and in their cars all the time. The main point is that most of the items knives included are not designed to be a weapon but are designed to do something else. I usually use my knives to cut banner material at work, sharpen pencils, cut my sandwich in half, remove hang nails, open boxes and letters and cut flowers for my girlfriend. That is what my knives were designed to do and all of those things would be so much harder to do without a knife and more dangerous with a slip joint (non locking) folder.

There are plenty of laws already. There are laws that already cover assault, assault with a deadly weapon, attempted murder etc. I don't see why the sudden rush to crack down on pocket knives. I don't want to be told that I can't be trusted with a knife. I don't want to be treated like a child. Please don't pass another law that just serves to make people feel better without actually doing anything to reinforce that. I don't want to have to risk the safety of my fingers just to create a false sense of security.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you,

contact info removed for posting



I hope that they actually reply.

Neko2
 

CRH

Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
432
Good job, Neko2. Your letter reflects that you are a responsible gentleman with your sharp tools.

No need to turn folks like you into criminals.
 
Joined
Jan 26, 2002
Messages
2,737
Isn't this kind of like outlawing anti-lock brakes on any vehicle that could be employed as a "get-away" car in a robbery?

The multil-blade issue totally eludes me, unless there is some sort of plan to distinguish SAK's and multitools from other knives lurking in the wings.
 

Daniel Koster

www.kosterknives.com
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 18, 2001
Messages
20,974
What can we do, CJ?

I'll be happy to add an email or letter for support. Could somebody post a link here?
 

CJ Buck

Moderator
Joined
Apr 15, 1999
Messages
898
AKTI is having a teleconference board meeting as soon as I can get a quorum together (possibly today) to review actions.

Tentative actions will be:

Hire a lobbyist or establish a point person in the area.

Establish a budget

Write a letter to circulate with all appropriate contact information to use and flood offices with letters and emails stressing the safety of locking knives.

Plan to raise funds if needed

I will update the forums after the meeting.

cj
 

CJ Buck

Moderator
Joined
Apr 15, 1999
Messages
898
AKTI board decided as follows:

We will collect all the contact information for the committee members and create a letter that can be sent to all of them.

We will also continue to search for a point person, be it hired or volunteer, to track this project on location.

We will contact the authors of both bills up front and see if we can close this early.

We will have another conference call next week to review progress. At that time we will reevaluate status and determine if a budget is neccessary.

cj
 

TIR

Joined
Aug 18, 2003
Messages
639
Thank you for all of your efforts and the update all we need in MI is another dumba$$ law like this for our safety. We recently became a shall issue state and now the want to take away my multi tool WTF?? I will be sending out letters this weekend. Neko2 great letter I will use it for inspiration.
 

norca

BOUNCED EMAIL: I need to update my email address in my profile!
Joined
Mar 26, 2004
Messages
157
You Should All Live In The Uk Your Laws Are Getting As Stupid As Owers
We Should All Live In A Pink Pussy State And Wrap Up In Nice Soft Cotton Wool
 

CJ Buck

Moderator
Joined
Apr 15, 1999
Messages
898
Here is a sample letter as well as the addresses to the players to contact. It can be either snail mail, phone call or email. It is most effective coming from Michigan residents so if you know any forward the thread or cut and paste in an email to them. Use this as an inspiration to whatever degree you wish, I also really liked Nekos letter, but we need letters and emails to flow.

We may be able to nip this quickly and efficiently.

cj

This is a letter that can either be emailed or sent snailmail to the Senators and Representatives in Michigan.

The Honorable Senator Alan Cropsey
Chairman Senate Judiciary Committee
Farnum Building #1005
Lansing MI 48909

Phone: (517) 373-3760
Fax: (517) 373-8661
Email: [email protected] (Alan's chief of staff John Lazet)
Email: [email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------
The Honorabale Senator Samuel "Buzz" Thomas
Farnum Building #610
Lansing MI 48909

Phone: (517) 373-7918
Fax: (517) 373-5227
Email: [email protected]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Honorable Representative Virgil Smith
House Office Building #686
Lansing MI 48909

Phone: (517) 373-0589
Fax: (517) 373-6404
Email: [email protected]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Honorable Representative Morris Hood
House Office Building #690
Lansing MI 48909

Phone: (517) 373-3185
Fax: (517) 373-5986
Email: [email protected]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Honorable Representative William Van Regenmorter
Chairman House Committee on Criminal Justice
House Office Building #1093
Lansing MI 48909

Phone: (517) 373-8900
Fax: (517) 373-8697
Email: [email protected]



PROPOSED/DRAFT LETTER REGARDING
MICHIGAN HOUSE BILL NO. 5797
INTRODUCED BY REPRESENTATIVES SMITH AND HOOD AND
MICHIGAN SENATE BILL NO. 1296 INTRODUCED
BY SENATOR THOMAS.


Address
Address
Address

RE: House Bill No. 5797 and Senate Bill 1296

Dear Senator/Representative ______:

The Bill which has been introduced would make it a felony for people in Michigan to carry typical folding knives used everyday by Michigan citizens engaged in performing our jobs; routine tasks of daily living and recreational activities. Many law-abiding people here in Michigan have for years routinely carried “a sharp-edged, multibladed device with blades capable of being locked into place. . . .” This description would include, for example, “Swiss Army knives,” as well as the typical “multi-tool,” which may people here in Michigan find almost indispensable.

The locking aspect targeted by the bill is critical for safety in the everyday use of folding knives.

The difference between a tool and a weapon is in the mind of the person who holds it.

If there are people in Michigan who are misusing knives for criminal purposes, there are existing laws to deal with the situation.

I strongly urge you to withdraw the subject Bill. I believe that it would have a negative impact on people in Michigan and expose many of us to potential criminal prosecution. It would also hinder many businesses. I believe that the legal and governmental resources of the State of Michigan should be more appropriately used to prosecute the few individuals who violate the law rather than attempting to interfere with millions of law-abiding citizens.

Very truly yours,
 
Joined
Jul 18, 2003
Messages
1,889
I just forwarded my original letter to all of the people you listed in your previous post. And I did remove all of the "FWD:" stuff from the mail s it looks like I sent it fresh.

Hopefully having local citizens express their distaste for this bill will get them to rethink.

I have been thinking about the multibladed locking part of it and I think I may know what they are aiming for.
These :
VL03S.jpg


I saw a bunch of them at the last comic book convention in town ( a few months back). BTW the comic cons are a great place to get all of your high quality swords and fantasy knives :barf: :barf:

I assume it is attempting to be an extension of the throwing star law but as usual will end up doing much more harm by being worded so vague.

N2
 

CJ Buck

Moderator
Joined
Apr 15, 1999
Messages
898
That sample letter has also been sent out to the industry so the other manufacturers can get their dealers involved as well as it went to our collector's club.

Sometimes I love the internet...then other times.....

cj
 
Joined
Jul 18, 2003
Messages
1,889
Here is a response that helps clear things up a little and to help focus our efforts.

I just got this email this morning.

Mr. Moore:

Thank you for your e-mail. The request for the bill came from the
Detroit Police Department due to exotic knives with blades under 3
inches being sold by a gas station to high school kids. Senator Thomas
(from Detroit) introduced SB 1296 to address this concern;
Representative Smith (also of Detroit) introduced HB 5797. Senate Bill
1296 has been referred to the Senate Judiciary Committee; HB 5797 to the
House Criminal Law Committee.

As you point out, the proposed language is so broad as to potentially
outlaw Swiss army knives, which Sen. Cropsey cannot support.
Consequently, no hearing is scheduled for SB 1296 in the Senate; you may
wish to contact the chair of the House Criminal Law Committee, Rep. Van
Regenmorter, and express your views to him. He may be contacted at:

[email protected]

Thank you again for your e-mail, and enjoy your week-end!


John Lazet, Chief of Staff
Sen. Alan Cropsey


Neko2
 
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
61
I have a tip:
DON'T let them get away with saying "don't worry, the law -- although it sure does read that way -- won't affect Swiss Army knives and the like".

When the Norwegian knife law was enacted, they said the EXACT same thing. Now, 12 years later, businessmen are getting fined for carrying Leatherman's Tools in their briefcases.
 

java

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2001
Messages
3,190
I'm not a resident of Michigan, but this certainly does not bode well for future knife laws wherever we live. Kevral has a good point regarding the state of knife laws in Norway (as well as Denmark, Sweden, Italy, the UK, and other countries where knife ownership is heading south legally.)

Please keep all of us abreast of progress in MI on this as well as any AKTI actions we can help out with.

Thanks for the heads up CJ

Java
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2000
Messages
1,539
Neko2 said:
The request for the bill came from the
Detroit Police Department due to exotic knives with blades under 3
inches being sold by a gas station to high school kids.

Perhaps someone local should find out which gas station this is and very politely tell the owner that we responsible knife carriers and users really don't appreciate their irresponsible actions.
 
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