New member, but I'm about as authentic as they come ...so check this one out

Authentic or ?

  • Authentic

  • Reproduction

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S

STEPHEN ESSANY

Joined
Aug 27, 2019
Messages
23
all previous images/thoughts removed, update at the very end/below on my latest find. ps. thanks for the shared sentiments because when i think roman era i think traditional gladius/pugio blade style shapes too :)

s-l1600.jpg
 
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Welcome aboard

While it is really outside of my purview, I have to think it is none of the above. To be an original of the period, one needs similar examples and to be a reproduction (in a production sense) there would be multiple examples. is the object of ferrous metal/magnetic? It looks to me like one of the fake Chinese bronze swords that are marketed on ebay and elsewhere.

For instance
http://www.swordforum.com/vb4/showt...d-Purported-to-be-Ancient-Chinese-Help-please

The sword/dagger you show was cast as we see and not forged iron and steel?

Just my thoughts on it.
Cheers
GC

Or "Luristan", Not Roman 1st century imho
 
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I don't know, while I'm no expert in this area, something doesn't look right to me. Seems too thick or heavy.

I think your best bet is to have it tested with an x ray spectroscopy machine. That should tell you the composition and you can compare that to what was actually used in that era. Maybe send it to Peter's heat treat. Thay have one of those machines and test for unknown metals. Give them a call and see what they say

I would think any amount of aluminium, manganese or nickel and maybe even silicone would be a dead giveaway for a reproduction
 
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www.myarmoury.com
and
www.vikingsword.com

These two boards above have more early age eyes to judge these. My main studies are early modern Americana.

Too be honest, the Deepeeka Roman swords are well thought of by reenactors vs the Marto, which is a great display in its own right. Pointer is the man right now, along with Mark Morrow.
http://swordsmith.net/

Antiques I work with and own are 17th to 19th century, with my own reproduction stuff that ranged only from the viking era to the renaissance. Much of that lot gone now. I personally would not touch shopping the antiquity territory you are looking at but have admired a lot of pictures. Pictures are less expensive ;)

Cheers
GC
 
STEPHEN ESSANY said:
it passes the magnet test as bronze and the patina look correct, and this seller is highly credible dating back to 2008 with over 15000 positive feedbacks.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I believe it's a fake. This is not my area of collecting, however you should consider:
1) The seller has provided no provenance on the item. Things like this don't arise every day. For it to be authentic it would have to come out of a known collection, where it would have had a historical paper trail going back many hundreds of years. Just where did he unearth this thing?
2) The oxidation on this looks very recent and active. It was either taken out of museum case and carelessly exposed to the elements, or manufactured recently and artificially aged. The latter is far more likely
3) Feedback is not always credible. Con-artist frequently have enormous amounts of positive feedback, because they con people - lots of people.

Before you buy anything else from this dealer, it would be prudent to take your recent purchase to a credible European antiquities specialist at a well established museum or university program to solicit their feedback on the item. The item either is or is not what it pretends to be; test it and you will know how much faith to place in your dealer.

n2s
 
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I would never ever ever buy Antiques like that from ebay. I believe it's a fake too. Don't think you would find an authentic object like that on ebay, let alone sell at this low price.
 
...so i removed all of my previous other roman blade images/thoughts ...and was probably completely off ...a buddy who is associated with the smithsonian in dc just told me "well, the bad is that it wouldn't have been made by the romans but could have been part of some near east region found/conquered weapons hoard ...but the good is that it appears you have an even older luristan bronze age dagger/sword given the style and the fact that it is a solid one cast piece of bronze." he did say that an mri/x-ray could confirm its composition and that any patina wouldn't matter because some collectors prefer to simply either preserve the bronze via natural/synthetic oxidation/elements exposure, where others would prefer to have it removed of any green/color patina. i was also sent a general link on many mid - late bc timeframe-era similar style bronze daggers and short swords which could range from persian to other near east regions. not to mention i was also advised that there are actually a great number of bronze age daggers/swords out there which survived vs. more modern iron/steel blades from the roman era periods; something which can be fairly quickly confirmed via credible historical arms online sites, auctions, museums, etc... = i'm ok with this so far. also, being that my dagger does have the parazonium leaf style shape to the blade, if it is officially authenticated to date back to the bc bronze age then i could have a unique tag made for it because it most-likely won't be tied to any specific region/people = fair game creativity on how i elect to present it :)

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1...IWb16bkAhUoZN8KHdIACjwQ4dUDCAY&uact=5#imgrc=_

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ps. i also have provenance/paperwork coming from a previous owner/estate collector via "I am sorry but impossible to be fake because the item was in M. Eganovic Netherlands collection the last 20-25 years." ....so this is all good news to my very suspect/common sense ears given my military/fed background and training both stateside/abroad ...yep
 
regardless, we like this one, and it really does fall into the luristan near east / persian late bronze to early iron age era(s). believe it or not there are quite a number of these types of bronze daggers/swords which have been discovered and well-preserved vs. the later roman era weapons due to their iron/steel completely decomposing into the earth over time. thanks again
 
On a positive note. In the mid 1990s we had local story about a gent who purchased what looked like a medicine cabinet door in an advanced state of decay. It was at a small antique shop in Fort Lauderdale; he saw something in it and paid the asking price of $34. He had it tested and professionally reviewed, and they found to have once been part of a temple from 3000 years ago. The testing was expensive, about $26k, but the item eventually sold at auction for about $250k.

Maybe you will get lucky?

N2s
 
I can't speak about this one. I bought a Luristan bronze eared dagger from a museum deacquisition sale with documents certifying it authenticity. Lots of real Luristan bronze items our there as they were used as burial goods. But also a lot of easily made fakes. Hope your's is a good piece.
Rich
 
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