New to sharpening and the forum

Glad to hear it. One further bit of advice, remember that the knife should be super sharp off that 320 stone, I.e shaving you arm hair and cutting paper. It can be tempting to move up in your progression when starting out before fully apexing the edge. You won’t get anywhere if you do this.

If you are anything like me you’ll find removing the burr the hardest bit get right. This last stage can be frustrating but makes a dramatic difference in how sharp the knife is. It’s also a lot harder for softer steels.

you talk about refinement but you will find that your 1000 stone will raise a burr with very little time spent on the stone - all be it smaller.

for me I find that removing the majority of the burr on the stone, and then the remnants on a bare leather strip works for me

Removing the burr is haaaaaard. I think by the time I managed to do it I also managed to rui the edge lol.

I've seen a few videos where the person did not remove the burr after he was done with a lower grit stone and moved straight to a higher(ish) grit stone (burr formed on a 400... moved straight to the 700). Doesn't this make sense? The edge is already apexed by that point, can't we just move on to the next scratch pattern while that first burr is still there? What do we lose we do it like this?

As for the bare leather strip... you don't mean you are stropping on a leather strip, but rather "cutting" through the leather, right?
 
Ah, to hell with it. I just ordered this little bugger. it can't hurt.

Naniwa-Schleifhilfe-A-901-32.jpg
 
To remove the burr I just raise the angle slightly and with no pressure lightly move the knife in circular motions on the stone to remove the burr. It is harder to remove on softer metals. Normally it only takes me a couple seconds.
 
To remove the burr I just raise the angle slightly and with no pressure lightly move the knife in circular motions on the stone to remove the burr. It is harder to remove on softer metals. Normally it only takes me a couple seconds.

Thanks mate. I was just reading a few posts with people talking about raising that angle to remove the burr...

Very light strokes or that edge is gone, right?

I've also read somewhere that grits below 320 don't work well on soft steels (the case of my 53HRC knife). I'll probably put the 120 away and just focus on the 320 and above.
 
4. Stropping is hard. Removing the burr is hard. I don't think I managed to do it properly. I'm feeling inclined to just pass the edge over a cork next time. Not as accurate as stropping on the stone, but with my ability it might just give me a better result.

I've seen a few videos where the person did not remove the burr after he was done with a lower grit stone and moved straight to a higher(ish) grit stone (burr formed on a 400... moved straight to the 700). Doesn't this make sense? The edge is already apexed by that point, can't we just move on to the next scratch pattern while that first burr is still there? What do we lose we do it like this?

As for the bare leather strip... you don't mean you are stropping on a leather strip, but rather "cutting" through the leather, right?

Drawing the edge through cork, wood, or felt only works on thin "foil" type burrs and it may not leave the best edge behind.

You usually can move on to a higher grit stone without removing a burr from the coarser stone, assuming you want a more refined edge, and I find this the easiest form of burr reduction. Keeping a low-grit aggressive toothy edge (while getting rid of the burr) is more difficult. You still have to get rid of the burr at some point however, and while I think fine/thin burrs are easier to remove they are also harder to see and feel which can make it harder to check your work.

If you create a big burr on a very coarse stone and take that edge directly a finer stone that is on the soft side you can scratch the soft stone, so you would want to reduce the burr on the coarse stone first.

Speaking of soft stones, "mud" can prevent the formation of significant burrs because with edge-leading strokes the apex is plowing through an abrasive slurry. This makes it hard to get a really sharp edge from that stone, but it can set up well for quickly finishing on something like a ceramic rod, without having to fight a burr.

If you have steel that makes a tenacious burr you may want to avoid making burrs as much as possible, especially on the coarsest stone. This can be tricky as if you move to a finer stone too soon you make more work for yourself instead of less, and you'll be tempted to raise the angle because it's taking too long to form the edge.
 
Drawing the edge through cork, wood, or felt only works on thin "foil" type burrs and it may not leave the best edge behind.

You usually can move on to a higher grit stone without removing a burr from the coarser stone, assuming you want a more refined edge, and I find this the easiest form of burr reduction. Keeping a low-grit aggressive toothy edge (while getting rid of the burr) is more difficult. You still have to get rid of the burr at some point however, and while I think fine/thin burrs are easier to remove they are also harder to see and feel which can make it harder to check your work.

If you create a big burr on a very coarse stone and take that edge directly a finer stone that is on the soft side you can scratch the soft stone, so you would want to reduce the burr on the coarse stone first.

Speaking of soft stones, "mud" can prevent the formation of significant burrs because with edge-leading strokes the apex is plowing through an abrasive slurry. This makes it hard to get a really sharp edge from that stone, but it can set up well for quickly finishing on something like a ceramic rod, without having to fight a burr.

If you have steel that makes a tenacious burr you may want to avoid making burrs as much as possible, especially on the coarsest stone. This can be tricky as if you move to a finer stone too soon you make more work for yourself instead of less, and you'll be tempted to raise the angle because it's taking too long to form the edge.

That's very helpful, thanks!

I'll definitely try to at least smoth out that big burr before moving from a 320 to a 1000, in order to preserve the 1000 stone.

I can't wait to give this a few more tries.
 
Unless your knife needs reprofiling or has a large chip I would start with your 320.
 
Unless your knife needs reprofiling or has a large chip I would start with your 320.

The knife I used to practice did have a significant chip on it. it's gone now, so I'll just start off with the 320 and save the 120 for when actually needed.
 
Strop not strip. I have the autocorrect to thank for that faux par!

If your knife is very dull i.e fully reflecting light when viewed from above then I have also found it is possible to feel a burr on both sides.

It is very obvious when the edge is apexed and this effect will disappear. At this point you will find that if you switch sides the burr will ‘flip’ one side to the other. At this point you need to start using progressively less pressure, edge leading strokes, higher angle etc. You will find what works for you. I would caution against moving up in grits as this will add complexity to the process and what you are trying to do is nail a basic technique and learn the feel.

There is simply no better thing than experience in all of this (bar 1 on 1 tuition) and you will learn much from your mistakes.

Those clips you have bought can be awkward. Angle guides I have found useful to set an angle in your minds eye
 
Thanks for the tips once again Craig!

I forgot to mention, but this was one of the things that I was able to do... check for a reflection on the edge (this is one of those things that you see the guys talk about on the internet but deep down you don't think you will be able to see anything. Kinda rewarding to have been abloe to spot the reflection on a few dull spots!)

To be honest I only looked for it after I was done sharpening (and on another knife).

As for the burr on both sides, I am almost convinced it happened because I'm not keeping a consistent angle. it seems it can cause this...

One of the reasons I decided to buy a clip (plus, it's cheap, so I figured why not give it a try).

I'm sure the clip feels weird, But maybe it will at least help me get a feel of what the angle should be moving the knife through the stone. I'll still sharp 100% freehand, but I might use the clip on my good knife while I don't have much practice (and keep trying freehand on other knives).
 
Practiced a little more yesterday, starting to feel really good! Tried the King #1000... now I understand when the guys on the videos say the stone "feels good"... it actually does!

Started using the 2 penny trick for getting an angle and it has been really helpful for 2 things.

1. The angle, obviously. I'm actually leaving the 2 pennies on the back of the stone so that every now and then I readjust.

2. This was unexpected but really helped me. I was getting a bit confused counting sides... I would get distracted and forget which I side I had just worked on, etc... So by leaving the 2 pennies at the back of the stone I always know which side I just worked on. the pennies will always be closest to me when sharpening the left side and further from me when sharpening the right side. I believe this tip might help other noobs too.

I still couldn't get the entire edge sharp... I get bit of it extremely sharp, mainly the belly and tip (somehow I've managed to get the tip real sharp)... but I'm still having troubles near the heel.

I am practicing with very crappy steel, so maybe it's a bit harder for it to hold an edge... but what I suspect is that I still can't hold an angle very well and every now and then I'll crush my edge. Back to practicing! You can actually feel the improvement, which is nice.
 
Don't count sides. There's no need.

Raise a burr along the entire edge on one side. Flip and raise a burr along the entire edge on the other side. Number of strokes for either makes no difference. Then very light single-side strokes to de-burr.
 
I'm more worried about counting when stropping on the stone.

We know each person will develop their own method. Because I can get a bit distracted I was having a hard time to remember which side I was just sharpening (for example, I stop sharpening to check for a burr... and then I get distracted and don't remember which side I was just sharpening. Having the pennies on one side of the stone or another really solved that.
 
Glad to hear it’s progressing!

just to Eli’s point, the danger with counting sides is that because your angle control won’t be great yet, what is probably happening is that on each full stroke you may not be touching the apex along the entire length of the edge and therefore missing certain areas. This probably explains why you are only getting part of the knife sharp.

the best tool you have for this is fingertips and feel. There is nothing wrong with identifying a particular area that needs work and then working just on that area. This goes for stropping on the stone as well
 
Glad to hear it’s progressing!

just to Eli’s point, the danger with counting sides is that because your angle control won’t be great yet, what is probably happening is that on each full stroke you may not be touching the apex along the entire length of the edge and therefore missing certain areas. This probably explains why you are only getting part of the knife sharp.

the best tool you have for this is fingertips and feel. There is nothing wrong with identifying a particular area that needs work and then working just on that area. This goes for stropping on the stone as well

Absolutely! Yesterday I did the entire process twice... got a more consistent edge on the second go but still wanted to go for a third but had no time available. Will do that tonight.

What's weird about the heel not being sharp as I developed a consistent burr on both sides and I'm sure I've removed it too... I am pretty sure I'm destroying the edge near the heel at some point when stropping... maybe too high angles.

I'll keep trying over and over and will let you know the results.

Sharpening is not a rocket science,plenty of videos on youtube how to do it.

I'm glad you are here to make such an insightful and knowledgeable comment. What is this "youtube" you are talking about, some famous japanese sharpener? I'm ready to soak in your knowledge and skyrocket to master sharpener status.
 
Theres more than enough material on youtube,Murray carter has his sharpening video instructional online for free and its 2 hrs long.Watch that and hopefully youll pick up the basics.Do not soak my knowledge in,just practice and you will get it eventually .
 
It is like playing an instrument. Getting a bass guitar to make sound is not hard to learn. Learning how to really play it takes a long time and the quest for mastery never ends.

Sharpening is similar. How to rub steel on a rock to get an edge isn't hard. Getting proficient, a good refined edge, takes time. Mastery is a lifelong quest.

What the blade needs done to it is the first thing to determine. A just a bit dull knife is one thing, a poorly sharpened, chipped, broken tip etc. are whole other animals
 
Practiced a little more yesterday, on a Santoku knife I had.

Very different feel. the tip was completely different from other knives I had sharpened (or tried to).

Just like this one:
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Once again I made it sharper than it was... however, not consistent. Parts of the knife would cut through a piece of magazine paper like it's butter... other parts would simply not catch.

Need more practice. I'm pretty sure what's happening is that I'm going for a too low angle, but at some point I end up raising it a little bit probably ruining my edge. Weird thing is that I'm not having trouble with the tip... mostly the heel.

Would you guys say that it's easier to sharpen on a slightly higher angle (say 22° easier to maintain than 15°)?
 
I'm guessing that the reason the tips are looking sharper is because from the get go I use higher angles... looks like on the tip I always raise the angle a little bit. Will try to maintain that pattern throughout... By wanting to have the knives as sharp as possible (lower angle) I'm probably sabotaging myself.
 
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