New to sharpening and the forum

Thats not bad job at all,just practice,if i were you,id stick first to getting knife razor sharp at lower grit first and also that edge is better for cutting meat ,paper also,stay around 400 grit.Id get silicon carbide or diamond stone,but thats just my preference.I have couple waterstones in 1000 and 4000grit but use them just to polish sides of blade.Final edge is always sil carbide,diamond or sometimes sharpmaker brown rods.These edges bite into material and are very agressive.
 
Thats not bad job at all,just practice,if i were you,id stick first to getting knife razor sharp at lower grit first and also that edge is better for cutting meat ,paper also,stay around 400 grit.Id get silicon carbide or diamond stone,but thats just my preference.I have couple waterstones in 1000 and 4000grit but use them just to polish sides of blade.Final edge is always sil carbide,diamond or sometimes sharpmaker brown rods.These edges bite into material and are very agressive.

Thanks for the comment mate.

I have a 120/320 carborundum that I've been using before moving on to the #1000 and then #6000 for.

This is the only knife I was a bit scared to start with the 320, but I'll do that next, even to try and repair that belly (lift the handle more and try to follow the edge better. I already know what I did wrong... a lot of push and pulls right in the belly... I did sort of a curved movement but it obviously wasn't enough).

Will Silicon Carbide be much different from what I'll achieve with my carborundum? I'm not sure how easy it will be to find it here in Brazil. I'll check into diamond as well, but honestly I already think I have over spent being a beginner.

Bonus little thing I noticed... I tested the edge of the knife cutting through paper, and right at the belly it tore the paper apart. Upon observation there was a bit of reflection right around there... as a beginner I thought it was cool to confirm that the exact issue I found when cutting could actually be confirmed by simply checking the edge visually.

Back to practice...
 
Just realized that my 120/320 are already Silicon Carbide... At least it's what it says on a few websites. I'll check the box when I get home later today.

But yup, I'll make sure to use that on my "good knife". will make my life a lot easier, it was not eady to raise a burr on the 1000, that knife probably has harder still then all my other knives (and it's definitely bulkier and could use some thinning... too bad that freaking bolster is in the way).
 
QUESTION(s):

When stropping edge trailing only, does it matter if you go tip first or heel first? On a Murray Carter's video it sounded important to start with the tip, which is fine...

...however, because of that bolster on the heel of my knife, when I go Tip first I will bump the bolster on the stone a lot at the end of the stroke (and for fear of doing it sometimes I will not strop all the way to the end of the heel).

If I start with the heel I have full control over this and it will be much easier.

I'll actually throw a bonus question in there... is it fine if I strop (always edge trailing) tip first on one side and heel first on the other?

Thanks again!!!
 
A knife with a bolster and a large choil, the tapering unsharpened part near the bolster in your pic, is really not what you want to start learning on.
 
Choil, Ricasso, Bolster... It's a bit confusing to me and I'm not 100% what each of those is.

But I get what you mean and I couldn't agree more. I have sharpened many other knives before getting to this one (albeit in a short amount of time, I'll give you that... you can say I'm "hooked". lol).

I did find this video helpful for this. Not sure how I will thin the knife though (and it needs thinning)

 
I sharpened a very small knife I have yesterday (used mostly for peeling small fruits, like apples and kiwis)... It was flat on one side, and completely dull.

Started on the 320 Silicon Carbide stone... the flat side felt weird... I couldn't feel a burr right away, instead it felt like the steel was "bending" somehow. I kept going until a burr throughout was obvious.

Then I went to the other side mostly to remove the burr... but the edge was completely serrated, I could actually see the little teeth almost like the edge was falling apart. It felt it was probably cos' the steel was too soft, but I'm guessing it was more related to a completely flat side than anything else because it's from the same line as other knives I had already sharpened (and none felt like that).

After removing the burr completely it was still not cutting properly... so I decided to create a proper bevel on the flat side too. Grinding, grinding and grinding. Giant burr formed, like nothing I had ever seen. When removing it, parts of the burr were actually hanging from the blade, so I took my time.

When I was pleased with how it was cutting I moved to the 1000... now it felt like my other sharpenings (after getting rid of the flat side). When I was pleased with how it was cutting I moved to the 6000... stroping motion only.

After stroping on the 6000, I wasn't satisfied with how it was cutting. So I decided to do some push and pulls on the 6000 (like I had done before) before stroping again.

Sure enough the blade then cut through paper like it was butter. so now I'm bugged by this...

Why does everyone say that a fine stone is mostly to be used with a stroping motion? Every single time I did a push and pull movement on the fine stone it gave me drastically better results.

Am I doing something wrong before? Or is it normal? Do you guys ever do push and pulls on stones as fine as 6000 grit?
 
I do it,but on sides of blade to polish,with that stone you mostly strop,but can do back and forth strokes too,just do few of the stropping ones in end.Practice is key,the knives youre sharpening are probably soft and cheap,these arent made to be polished to high grit and cut way better when sharpened on low grit stones.Japanese cutlery and high quality knives are made with rc 59-62 or more and take and hold that high polish edge way better.Soft knives form bigger burrs too .I wouldnt go higher than 400 grit on inexpensive kitchen knives with soft steel.
 
I do it,but on sides of blade to polish,with that stone you mostly strop,but can do back and forth strokes too,just do few of the stropping ones in end.Practice is key,the knives youre sharpening are probably soft and cheap,these arent made to be polished to high grit and cut way better when sharpened on low grit stones.Japanese cutlery and high quality knives are made with rc 59-62 or more and take and hold that high polish edge way better.Soft knives form bigger burrs too .I wouldnt go higher than 400 grit on inexpensive kitchen knives with soft steel.

I did the push and pull movements on the 6000 and then just stroping movement before finishing off.

But that's the thing... my knives are cutting way better if I finish then on a 6000... I'm sure they are crappy. I'm not sure they will hold the edge, but it's definitely sharper at the end of my sharpening session on the 6000 vs the 1000.

I don't feel like I'm doing anything different on the 1000 than I'm doing on the 6000... not sure why it feels way sharper.
 
Well if you feel theyre cutting better at 6000 then do it that way.I use mostly sawing action in cutting as i do not push cut or cut paper and it serves me way better.Depends what you like,theres no universal rule.
 
Well if you feel theyre cutting better at 6000 then do it that way.I use mostly sawing action in cutting as i do not push cut or cut paper and it serves me way better.Depends what you like,theres no universal rule.

It feels sharper on the 6000... but I'm mostly testing cutting paper and not really putting the knives to their actual use. So maybe it doesn't feel so sharp cutting paper but it might work better for its intended purposes?

I'll keep practicing, I'm actually digging this... I just wish I had more spare time to do it.

I'll keep in mind to test the knives in different ways than just cutting paper... in fact I'd accept any suggestions from the crew here.

Thanks again!!
 
The edges i get on low grit cut anything and even shave and sometimes whittle hair too,but that depends on steel and thickness of knife.It depends how you cut,some pple prefer to push cut,and some prefer sawing action.Also agressiveness of edge depends on steel type too,but mostly on grit used to sharpen.Some steels have very agressive edge even with high polish.Low end knives with soft steel i sharpen to 400,500 grit and then touch up on butcher steel mostly and sometimes on sharpmaker too.I have seen you have that ceramic sharpener,thats not bad for touchup and gives pretty agressive edge,but watch the angle.Keep practicing,thats it.Some low end knives have thick or burnt edges and heat treat is off and they can hardly take and hold edge.Get couple of kitchen-utility knives from reputable maker like victorinox ,wusthof,etc and practice on those as they take killer edge easily and hold it for decent amount of time in kitchen.After you master those ,progress to harder steels etc.
 
The edges i get on low grit cut anything and even shave and sometimes whittle hair too,but that depends on steel and thickness of knife.It depends how you cut,some pple prefer to push cut,and some prefer sawing action.Also agressiveness of edge depends on steel type too,but mostly on grit used to sharpen.Some steels have very agressive edge even with high polish.Low end knives with soft steel i sharpen to 400,500 grit and then touch up on butcher steel mostly and sometimes on sharpmaker too.I have seen you have that ceramic sharpener,thats not bad for touchup and gives pretty agressive edge,but watch the angle.Keep practicing,thats it.Some low end knives have thick or burnt edges and heat treat is off and they can hardly take and hold edge.Get couple of kitchen-utility knives from reputable maker like victorinox ,wusthof,etc and practice on those as they take killer edge easily and hold it for decent amount of time in kitchen.After you master those ,progress to harder steels etc.

Idon't have a ceramic sharpener o_O

Maybe it was that pic of the push through sharpener from my first post? It was just an example since I didn't have the picture of the real thing.

I have that diamond plated push through (which I rather not use at all), a carborundum 120/320, a king 1000 and a king 6000.
 
Then dont bother with it at all,you have enough for great edge.I like dmt folding sharpener for touchups,gives killer agressive edge in a minute,when knife is properly ground.
 
Why does everyone say that a fine stone is mostly to be used with a stroping motion? Every single time I did a push and pull movement on the fine stone it gave me drastically better results.

"Stropping only" seems to be a waterstone thing and/or a Japanese thing and/or a Murray Carter thing. I like Carter. I paid for his videos and I think I learned a good bit from him. But "stropping only" on fine stones isn't the only way to go.

I've done back and forth "scrubbing" with my 5k Nubatama waterstone. I've done the same with my Spyderco Ultra Fine 8x2" stone. It worked quite well with both. Though it was harder for me to properly do back and forth with the soft-ish waterstone. With the Spyderco ultra fine, it was pretty easy, polished the heck out of my bevels, and yielded a "scary sharp" edge.

Do what works for you. Results speak louder than recommendations.

Brian.
 
It feels sharper on the 6000... but I'm mostly testing cutting paper and not really putting the knives to their actual use. So maybe it doesn't feel so sharp cutting paper but it might work better for its intended purposes?

Paper cutting tests a few things. One of the big ones is burr removal. If your edge still has burr on it, paper tells you because it hangs, catches, and tears the paper. If your edge is dull, paper tells you because the blade will not initiate the cut. In fact it can tell you some relative sharpness depending upon the exact cut. But let me get back to that in a minute.

You are probably making better paper cutting edges from the 6000 stone for two reasons:
1. A fine stone is much easier to deburr with. The finer you go, the easier it is to deburr. The more coarse the stone, the more difficult it is to deburr. You are probably removing the burr really nicely with the 6k.
2. A finer (more polished) edge does better in paper. The edge will be thinner, smoother, and (as above) more completely deburred.

A more coarse edge will really "hook into" what it is cutting. Which makes cutting slick materials (like soft tomatoes) easier. Really polished edges can slide off of slick material.

Back to paper for a moment. Try these exercises:

1. Cut paper along one of the factory edges. Notice how it cuts.
2. Turn the paper 90 degrees and cut along a different factory edge. Do you notice a difference? You should because the grain of the paper runs through it and going with the grain is easier and against the grain is harder.
3. Get a fresh sheet and start with the "easy" side (with the grain). Line your blade up with the paper. Now notice that there are 3 axis that you can move the blade relative to the paper:
A. You can lean it over and cut a triangle off of the paper. Keep it as straight up and down as you can, so it cuts a rectangle. This is harder than an angled cut.
B. Start again and notice that you can rotate the knife so that it is straight like in (A) above, but the blade is angled with the *edge* of the paper. Make that angle 90 degrees. This is harder.
C. Start again. Line up like in (A) and (B) above. Notice that you can tilt the back of the blade up or down, which makes yet another angled cut into the edge of the paper. Make this 90 degrees also. So 90 degrees in all three dimensions directly into the edge of the paper. This is the most "pure" push cut you can make and is the most difficult.

Many very sharp edges can't really start a push cut into phonebook paper with a pure 90 degree cut in all dimensions.

Try this with the grain *and* against the grain. Against the grain is quite difficult. My super polished edges from the Spyderco UF could push cut, against the grain, with a 90 degree angle in all 3 dimensions. Less polished edges will struggle to do it.

Some of this is just messing around. Real world sharpness is defined by the user. I find that a coarse edge, which is completely deburred, performs really well for me in real world tasks. Like cutting meat and vegetables. Like cutting open plastic "blister packs", or opening boxes. Try both and see what you like: Polished and coarse.

Brian.
 
But that's the thing... my knives are cutting way better if I finish then on a 6000... I'm sure they are crappy. I'm not sure they will hold the edge, but it's definitely sharper at the end of my sharpening session on the 6000 vs the 1000.

I don't feel like I'm doing anything different on the 1000 than I'm doing on the 6000... not sure why it feels way sharper.

This is what I was talking about earlier in this thread:

You usually can move on to a higher grit stone without removing a burr from the coarser stone, assuming you want a more refined edge, and I find this the easiest form of burr reduction. Keeping a low-grit aggressive toothy edge (while getting rid of the burr) is more difficult.

A higher grit stone is the easiest way to reduce a burr and get a sharp edge, at least for me. If you don't need the "low-grit aggressive toothy edge" I mentioned you can absolutely finish even "crappy" knives on the 6000 grit stone. An edge properly finished on 6000 grit will not perform worse in push cutting than one finished on 1000 grit. The initial drop in sharpness is faster but it stays at or above the level of the 1000 grit edge after the same amount of work. If the edge fails quickly you probably had a wire edge: a kind of burr that is aligned and strong enough to cut but not to last—this can happen even on fine stones. The other possibility is that you're trying to put on too acute an edge for that steel to handle, but that will be the case for coarse or fine grit finishes alike.
 
Back
Top