Off Topic No such thing as a bad/ "evil" knife , if it works !

[DocJD]

There's lots of prejudice in the world against certain bladed tools because they are classified as "weapons" . Sometimes it's just a case of any blade that might possibly employed as weapon .

So thus these tools are often thought to be bad / evil objects . Then , of course they become the target of legislation . To be controlled or outlawed entirely . And/or become objects of stigma ,fear and scorn in some social circles .

I have great difficulty in understanding this mode of thinking . The only bad tool IMO is one that doesn't work well for it's purpose .

Recent example in the news was the "Chic-fil-a Hero" . Young man used some kind of cheap folding karambit (maybe a Tac Force or M-tech kinda gas station quality level?) to cut a seatbelt and save the life of a strangling child .

It was inarguably a "good deed" and admirably performed ! BRAVO ,WELL DONE . Thank you, Logan , for being a shining light .

But , my point is that many people would say that this kind of knife was "evil " and could only serve to attack / harm / murder . Yet here it is being used as a genuine , real life emergency rescue tool . I love it !

Of course , this relatively cheap and questionable quality of knife is not highly regarded on this forum . But it did get the job done ! So it was plenty good enough in this limited instance .

 

[kaos 13]

I agree it's the way people see them as weapons and not tools in the past weapons and tools we're the same thing just multi use like hammers axs spears knives swords clubs sycals even rocks were all used as tools for hunting farming survival in the wild just the way people look at some knives and some people half to use them in the wrong way and ruin it for every one if some one want to kill another human bad enought they will do it with what ever they can get bear hands gun knife brick stick glass rock metal pipe or bar point is people are the problem not the tools

 

[marcinek]

He could have cut it with a SAK too.

The knife he used was pure tacti/ninja piece, the kind that makes people think that knife fans are stab happy psychos.

(Which is why many people carry those knives, I suspect.)

Hopefully this discussion will stick to the topic of impressions knives give, and not politics and religion.

 

[Hawgsnawt]

Me and a buddy of mine had this same discussion awhile back, few months ago now I guess.... how things could be judged based purely on look.... and a mundane item, like a knife, by appearance alone could almost be panic inducing....

Too many threads include words today like " non threatening, workplace safe, etc etc.... " ........it kinda bugs me being an old redneck from Texas with what has to be some of todays most lenient knife laws....

To that end, again, being old crazy azz redneck knife guys that we are..... we got on a kick, trying to find the most visually aggressive, panic inducing, pure evil chunk of steel we could find.... it came a bit of a game to us, texting pics back and forth as we ran across things, trying to 1 up the other guy...... lol

I.....ummmmm........hate to loose.......

so to that end.... I've started a journey.....

I set myself a limit of 1000.00, and set out to have made the single most evil, panic inducing, useful for nothing but a B slasher flick movie prop, OMG DID YOU SEE THAT!!!! slab of sharpened steel that has ever existed....

Without giving away the punchline, I will say, I have received the not 1 but 2 base knives already.... and am making arrangements to have them re handled and re worked to be more suitable to being unsuitable..... they will have to go to 3 separate craftsmen and get back to me before they are finished..... at which point they will be mounted in a display case, added to my collection, and have a dedicated thread made to show off the fruits of my dark mind! ....no seriously, I wanna do a Halloween style, " hey can you top this " thread of insanity just for grins and let folks showcase their oddities that have been collected thru the years before everything got so sissified ......

PREPARE THYNESELF ...... FOR EVIL COMETH!!!

in a red neck just so evil ya kinda gotta giggle when ya see it sort of way......

Hopefully enough before Halloween that everyone can join in the fun!.....

 

[Peter Hartwig]

While certainly not what I would choose(Knives from many of the top makers could also fit that statement), I am sure it brought it's owner joy even before this recent event. Now the thing is gold and he likely wouldn't trade it for the best of our collections. It certainly was a good choose for this need.
We all take our own path in the use and enjoyment of knives. As long as that path isn't illegal who am I to say mine is the better path.
I am old and out of date, but still think everyone should carry a knife. Their choose as to what that is, but something that can cut. Then again I still think kids should go outside and play-what a fossil.

 

[eveled]

I always like to leave myself in a defendable position. You only get one chance at a first impression.

A Buck 110 on your belt says I might go fishing after work. A flashy carambit says something different.

I’ll leave it at that.

 

[User27]

I don't blame them for finding the karambit scary that thing has one heck of a fine tip,it kinda looks like a big claw.I thought at first that the karambit was meant to be a weapon but it turns out the thing was just another farming tool like the kunai.I think the 2 reasons why most people who are so afraid of blades are becuase they are
not familiar with the object or they are uneducated/misinformed about it...The karambit has been weaponized a loooong time ago and is still used as a weapon to this day.....It looks scary..

But that claw-like design looks like could come in handy when cutting some tough material.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

Certain knives and blades are always going to be seen as weapons first. The karambit got its start as a farming tool. It evolved into a weapon. I just bought a new fixed blade karambit. It has a 4+" blade that is double edged and has a wicked set of serations on the back spine. If i choose to carry this knife, it won't be for digging roots or even opening boxes. It's a weapon. A defensive weapon I would use for evasion, but still pretty much designed to do one thing. Anyone who looks it otherwise is missing the point of this knife...no pun intended. Well maybe a little bit intended

The pocket karambits of questional quality (and even those of great expense) CAN be used as utility knives, but there are better ones out there for general use, and I would be willing to bet those who buy and carry a karambit give the SD applications or at very least the "cool" factor of the blade shape a passing thought when going with that type of knife.

Even Spyderco, one of the greatest utility EDC brands, makes a knife or two specifically for SD use.

That said, yes, there is some unfounded stigma following all knives. I remember about 15 years ago my future wife and I were buying our first car together. It was a Honda Civic and had a balloon tied around the side mirror. The salesguy tried getting it loose with one hand (this guy only had one arm with a hooked prosthetic on the other, so it wasn't easy for him). I pull out a SAK Fireman my near-wife had bought me for Christmas. For those not familiar with the model it's a large locking SAK with about 4 layers. One of the layers is a serrated curved seatbelt cutter. Its called "the Fireman" for a reason.

I use this blade to gently get under the balloon ribbon and cut it. The guy freaks out and asks me, and I quote, "Whooa! Is that from your ghetto days or something?"

I used a tool without a sharp point on a SAK pretty much exactly how it was desinged to be used, discretely, then snapped it shut and slid it into the sheath I made for it on my belt. Ghetto days? Really?

I think it's much more important that those of us who see the value in our edc tools to use them responsibly, even if it isnt their intended function like the hero rescuing that child with his k-bit.

Some knives ARE weapons. They don't have to be used as such. However, as we all know, not all knives need to be used as weapons. Behaving responsibly and setting a good example will do us, as a community, more good than getting hung up on the fact that some scary looking knives are designed to look scary and be primarily used for scary things.

 

[BigWillie]

Youtube pounds me with concealed carry/home defense videos because tehre is a lot of overlap there and the knife/bushcraft world I guess.

A constant refrain you hear is "don't go too tactical, don't buy ammo with stupid names, etc" You don't want ammo with RIP on the box

Gun guys worry about this kind of stuff.

I see no reason we as knife users should be exempt. And the way knife laws work in my state there is a lot of extra incentive for your knife to look more like a tool than a weapon. There are no limits on what bladed tools you can carry....There are limits on knives as weapons

 

[pinnah]

He could have cut it with a SAK too.

The knife he used was pure tacti/ninja piece, the kind that makes people think that knife fans are stab happy psychos.

(Which is why many people carry those knives, I suspect.)

Hopefully this discussion will stick to the topic of impressions knives give, and not politics and religion.

I think to fully have this discussion, we would need to have a full discussion about the social processes by which icons become icons that have enduring social meaning. Obviously, on one level a flag is just a piece cloth, a cross is just two pieces of wood and a Luger or AR are just firearms.

On another level, these objects have deep social meanings as icons.

I'm not sure this forum is the right place to have an in-depth discussion of social construction of meaning, but I think this is at the center of this thread. Durkheim's discussion on the role of the icon in social celebrations is central.

 

[marcinek]

But , my point is that many people would say that this kind of knife was "evil " and could only serve to attack / harm / murder . Yet here it is being used as a genuine , real life emergency rescue tool . I love it !

And if there was a closed up car full of puppies and kitties baking in the sun, I could break the window and save them using a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire. So what?

Knives create impressions. People like teenagers working fast food drive thru carry certain knives to create impressions. And it reflects badly on all of us.

Did he save someone with his stabinator? Sure. Its a drop in the bucket compared to all the others whipping out their stabinators at Applebees, family gatherings, and malls.

If others get an impression from those knife owners, it's not the others' fault. It is the knife owners intent.

Everybody pines for the "old days" when you could carry a knife...they existed because people carried knives and used them like adults...not because they wanted to look like bad*sses.

 

[22-rimfire]

.... For those not familiar with the model it's a large locking SAK with about 4 layers. One of the layers is a serrated curved seatbelt cutter. Its called "the Fireman" for a reason.

I use this blade to gently get under the balloon ribbon and cut it. The guy freaks out and asks me, and I quote, "Whooa! Is that from your ghetto days or something?"

I have the Dual Pro which is outfitted similarly as a 3 layer SAK. I would probably have not bought the car if a salesman made a comment like that. It oozes with prejudice. If I wanted the car, I would have requested a different salesman out of spite. That would teach him to not make stupid comments to potential customers.

We all have been teenagers and I certainly have purchased knives on a whim that I look at now and just smile. I view some knives as "weapons" and some as tools. Most fall some where in between. But it is how you use it that makes the knife a weapon. These kinds of reactions by people affect my knife choices not that I would care to carry a karambit or any claw shaped knife.

The kid's knife at Chick-fil-A might well have elicited a negative reaction in many circumstances other than the one that was happening at the moment.

 

[DocJD]

At least in my area , rural midwest south , it's fairly common for people to open carry sidearms or even have long guns visible in their vehicles .

Nobody local takes this as threatening per se . Pretty much the same with knives ,but even more so . Nobody much cares .

If someone acts crazy , hostile , aggressive , threatening in behavior ...then people get worried .

Yes , if someone carries an AR into school , church , or the Walmart , that would be noticed as weird and aggressive . But so would bringing in a bunch of gasoline or hunting dogs . Crazy ,abnormal behavior is everywhere scary . Just varies as to what that consists of in different areas / cultures .

 

[marcinek]

Yes , if someone carries an AR into school , church , or the Walmart , that would be noticed as weird and aggressive . But so would bringing in a bunch of gasoline or hunting dogs . Crazy ,abnormal behavior is everywhere scary . Just varies as to what that consists of in different areas / cultures .

Just like a karambit while working the drive thru at a fast food place.

World of knives he could have chosen...and he picked that one. He wanted to look tacti/awesome/scary.

The fact that he used it to help someone doesn't make that go away.

 

[marcinek]

Yes , if someone carries an AR into school , church , or the Walmart , that would be noticed as weird and aggressive . But so would bringing in a bunch of gasoline or hunting dogs . Crazy ,abnormal behavior is everywhere scary . Just varies as to what that consists of in different areas / cultures .

But they all would work, wouldn't they? What if somebody in church ran out of gas? Or a rabid puma was in Walmart? You said it, nothing is evil or bad if it works, right?

Which one is it?

 

[User27]

Just like a karambit while working the drive thru at a fast food place.

World of knives he could have chosen...and he picked that one. He wanted to look tacti/awesome/scary.

The fact that he used it to help someone doesn't make that go away.

not everyone is as obsessed about knives,their steels,handle materials,fit/finishes as we generally tend to be here on these forums,the guy probably saw the knife,thought the design was cool looking,and decided to EDC it?..In the very early days of my obsession most of my exposure to knives were the cheap traditional looking slipjoints my grandfather had or the Buck 110 that
my uncle used to skin deer with.(probably made tamales out of the deer meat later )
When I got my little hands on my dad's Benchmade 9050... (just a pic of some 9050,not dad's)

I remember how excited I was about it.The blade was dark and smooth to the touch,
it's edge had a bit of a mirror finish and was razor sharp,It's handle was blocky but
offered a lot of room for a good secure grip,and oh boy it had a nice kick to it every
time I deployed the blade.Switchblades were pretty much brand new to me at the time
so I had a lot of fun opening/closing ,oogling the knife while I had it.

 

[David Mary]

Youtube pounds me with concealed carry/home defense videos because tehre is a lot of overlap there and the knife/bushcraft world I guess.

A constant refrain you hear is "don't go too tactical, don't buy ammo with stupid names, etc" You don't want ammo with RIP on the box

Gun guys worry about this kind of stuff.

I see no reason we as knife users should be exempt. And the way knife laws work in my state there is a lot of extra incentive for your knife to look more like a tool than a weapon. There are no limits on what bladed tools you can carry....There are limits on knives as weapons

Agreed. Convicted or acquitted by a jury of your peers, who, along with the prosecutor who will build a case against you if you use a weapon for self defense, are just as likely to be "tool-averse" out of ignorance, as they are to "get" edc culture. The car salesman mentioned above is just one example of a potential member of the jury.

Just like a karambit while working the drive thru at a fast food place.

World of knives he could have chosen...and he picked that one. He wanted to look tacti/awesome/scary.

The fact that he used it to help someone doesn't make that go away.

Did he? Or are you just saying that because of your own preconceived notions of the style of knife, or perhaps of young people? A hawkbill shaped blade would be extremely efficient in a fast food kitchen where boxes need to be opened quickly, and a cheap karambit with low wear resistance steel would tear them open all day every day, especially if you used it on the tape and/or strapping with a good levering technique, rather than the cardboard itself.

But they all would work, wouldn't they? What if somebody in church ran out of gas? Or a rabid puma was in Walmart? You said it, nothing is evil or bad if it works, right?

Which one is it?

You seem to be alleging a contradiction by the OP, but who parks their car inside a church to need to bring gas in it? And a rabid puma in Walmart is an out of the ordinary circumstance that removes the label of weird/aggressive/abnormal/crazy behavior. In fact, in that circumstance, if one was close at hand, knew about the situation, and had a rifle, it would be about as reasonable a behavior as I could fathom.

It's all about perception, which can only be accurate when all the facts and details are known.

 

[Legendary_Jarl]

Objects are neither evil nor good. People are the ones who are evil. Legislation against knives is just a way for politicians to wash their hands and say "oh we did something to tackle X problem".

 

[David Mary]

Objects are neither evil nor good. People are the ones who are evil.

People are good by nature, but have a common tendency to ruin it by abusing free will to make evil choices.

Legislation against knives is just a way for politicians to wash their hands and say "oh we did something to tackle X problem".

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[stabman]

Everybody pines for the "old days" when you could carry a knife...they existed because people carried knives and used them like adults...not because they wanted to look like bad*sses.

Right, because if I remember correctly, there were no Bowie knives, switchblades, stilettos, or daggers back then, which is why no one carried them.
Oh wait...there were all those things and a bunch of people carried them...