Pictures that the media didn't want us to see. (Very Graphic)

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Why all this interest in civilians/mercenaries/security ? Why would it be 'spin' to call them civilians? I think some of you are reaching and inventing- chances are, a vehicle full of westerners was driving by and the bad guys decided to detonate the bomb. (unless the bomb was planted on the vehicle- in which case- did security persons always use that vehicle? Did anyone else use the vehicle? or once again, did 'westerners' use the vehilcle? )

ABout the only thing of interest is when someone pondered if Blackwater could get to 'them' first.

Spectre said he'd mow down the whole crowd. I was thinking shoot the ones with their hands on the bodies- and some of you want to nuke the entire city of 500,000
This isn't about a crowd or specific people. This is about a couple or more generations of Moslims raised to hate our guts. This is about a world unable to make value judgement until it is too late- and even then the French and Germans and what not are against us. The Left is aiding terrorism by treating this as a law enforcement issue- and the mute debate about whether we should have gone into Iraq. Spain tried to make a deal with this phenomana-(sic) and look what happened- they're trying to blow up Spain's Trains anyway!!

This is the Age Of Science Fiction, Boy. This is where you'll be having a garden party, celebrating your son's graduation from Law school and the building down the street will go up. These young kids have glee in their eyes. Show me an 18 year old anywhere and I'll show you someone icthing to make something happen, blow something up- just give him a reason. And the reason is so imbedded it is too late to extract. They have God and Country and Oil and the Big Satan to think about.

I don't see an end to this.

This is the future. A hard line is good. Education is good- but it's not going to 'take' for the millions and millions already done. And picking a few up in a crowd, or anywhere else for that matter- is pissing in the wind.

If you look at the enormity of what has occurred and is occuring- this thing makes car jacking and murder a quaint Country habbit- then going into Iraq is peanuts. Small potatoes. When this is even half done Iraq will be the least of our worries.

You can count on bombings for 500 years. Many of the liberties you take for granted will be a thing of the past. Think Britian's having it's populace under camera is a fluke event?

I think a lot of people who don't understand what happened on 9-11 are going to have to watch Chicago sink into one of the Great Lakes before they figure it out.

And you guys wanna blow up a crowd?? Pheewsss.


munk
 
These people in Iraq are not worth the sacrifice of our finest young men.
It looks like we are stuck there - for years.
This is not a good outcome.
I don't know the best course of action, but I hate to see our soldiers die for people I see as our enemies.
They are not worth it.
 
These people in Iraq are not worth the sacrifice of our finest young men.<>>> Arty

We're not doing it just for them. We doing this for ourselves. It may not appear like it now- but it is worth doing.



munk
 
Edited out after reflection, not that I don't still feel that way. Just not appropriate for Bill's forum.
 
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The point about them being civilian adventurers. Think about this:

They are relying on private companies to do what was traditionally army stuff more and more. Soon there will be no armies. It will be just like every thing else contracted out. No more bases. We'll just hire from the pool. ;)

Plus give it 50 years and the armies won't be for countries anymore. They will be owned by companies. They kind of are now. War will be a business and cooking up facts to go to war and manipulating public opinion will a way to "grow the economy" It kinda is now.

It will come to the point that say Boeing will own the airforce. And they will build the planes and have the pilots and the government will just hire them. Eventually there will be one world army. The country with the most money will be able to hire that army.

Unions shut down the line in Singapore? The company will send their private army in to kill a few union members. Don't like a trade barrier? The companies will send in forces to raze the facilities of competitors.

Eventually the world army will be in control and rather than countries hiring them to fight wars, we'll all be paying "protection money" to keep them from attacking us.

Don't you love the free market?
 
Give Me 10 Minutes Alone With These Son Of A B**ches With 50 Rounds Of Black Talon And A Glock .45;...anybody Get My Drift??? :footinmou :footinmou

ankles;knees;hips;wrists;elbows---like Segal said in Glimmer Man "Right about..." :mad: :mad: :mad: :grumpy:

look guyz...I know this is the happy cantina..lets keep it that way..but this is the most heart breaking crap Ive seen in 38 yrs.. :barf:

To my beloved Moderators:

I mean no disrespect

Delete if you must...but understand if that one doesnt make you want to spend alot of time in a restroom and some sort of reflection space in the process there isnt a human or american bone in your body.
 
Very interesting pictures. If enough americans see them, the smiles will be coming off the faces of those happy fellows and the problem will then become how to reinstall some restraint.
 
Hey guys sorry I'm getting in on this so late but the picture on the right second one down was printed in my local paper The Morning Call. The front-page in fact. No editing was done raw and for all to see. I called to complain but they had been through the routine already and could have cared less. Some letters to the editors but I'm convinced their only reason was shock value and to damage the present administration.

Joe

My cousin is in Iraq and the thought of him being harmed for these animals is crushing to me.
 
Just jumping in here days late as usual, but as I understand it these guys were in Iraq to iron out the logistical problems in getting food shipments into the country. Their principle mission was not shooting but supply.

Of course the Iraqi's who set the bomb under their car probably didn't know or care about this fact, so they probably just blew up their meal ticket, so to speak.

Also, many Iraqi's who applauded the killing then got all bent out of shape with those who desecrated the bodies, which is a crime under Islam.

Killing is good, but touching the bodies afterwards is apparently a non-no.

Whatever...

-Norm
 
btice said:
I'm with Danny....and Rusty. About a thousand things to say that I just can't because my parents taught me better.

It's pretty apparant that the rules of "human" behavior just aren't the same everywhere. Maybe we should play by their rules? Just a thought...


bt
Click to expand...


My boss expresses this philosophy pretty well, and after viewing these pictures it's hard not to agree with him, at least initially: "Bomb 'em back to the stone age; that's only 25 years ago for them anyway."

-Norm
 
I have some neat exercise videos by a former military fitness instructor. His name is Scott Helvenston. I've spent many sweaty hours working out to those videos and can attest to their quality and the good natured humor of the instructor. You can see the videos with pictures of the instructor on their cover at http://www.sealtraining.com/index.php?screen=prod&id=ST-CAMP-DVD .

There are some more pictures of Mr. Helvenston at the link in this thread's first post.


No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece
of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by
the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's
death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and
therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for
thee. --John Donne--
 
Though I am guilty of it in the pass, I would like to think that politics should be kept out of the HI forum and put in the Wine and Cheese or whatever it's called.

Somehow reading the hate in threads like this one seems to dishonor all the good that UB and his colleagues have done in Nepal and elsewhere.

Becha if all the "kill" words were added up they would outnumber words like "Ram" and "honor" by many times.

Just my thoughts. Flame away.

:(
 
Life is funny. Some would say diverse. There are many different reactions. I don't find this sad.

I like the fact we can talk in HI about the world. Personally, I just try to stay away from second amendment threads because my pro gun bias is strident. As it should be- but I don't wish to become too upset. One good thing about threads; if you don't like them, you don't have to participate or read.


munk
 
A lot of folks turned against me a year ago when I pointed out that this Iraq intervention would NOT work out. I pointed out that the country would become anarchic with no leader to be found. I pointed out that the United States would get stuck with this tar baby.

All the arm-chair patriots called me an idiot and a traitor. All of them said that this was some sort of special situation to which different rules applied.

Different rules from which planet?

Look at Iraq now.

Know what the problem is? Americans have no knowledge of history, no passion for it, no appreciation for it, and they only recall historic events in a distorted fashion. A history degree and 25 cents gets about a third cup of coffee.

If the American public is so freaked out by dead bodies they should not have supported this adventure in the first place. And once again they are trying to fight a war in another place by American rules. It does not work that way.

Chris
 
I pointed out that the country would become anarchic with no leader to be found.>> Chris Keller

As opposed to the pristine state formerly enjoyed by the populace? It didn't become anything, unless 'better'. 85% of the place is better. We'll see what happens. Maybe you'll turn out to be right.

Iraq is important- look at the Deal Bin Laden just offered Europe to stay out.



<<And once again they are trying to fight a war in another place by American rules. It does not work that way.>> Chris

That's a good point, Chris. We'll just have to live life our way, though. I'm not ready to nuke the place. Life isn't fair. Terrorists get to behave worse than most of us.

munk
 
Fact is, Saddam Hussein was more useful to the United States when he was in power.

Now we have to be the counterweight to Iran, as Hussein is gone. Otherwise, Iran will swallow all of Iraq.

So Iraq is better now? That should NOT matter in our foreign policy. How a government treats its people is none of our business. How that government treats OUR people is our business.

Chris
 
Chris, you've struck upon the crux of the situation. Is how another government treats its people is none of our business? The million dollar question.

If you cast yourself in the super-power world-police role as a country, you are then writing policy that states that it IS the superpowers business. Worse, once you do play that role, everybody has an opinion of which nation to "save from itself." It goes on and on, with detractors and protractors on all sides.

Kosovo, China, and others have had their share of what we would call "human rights violations," and one could certainly wonder at the logic of another country sweeping in to 'fix' things. Usually the country doing the sweeping in discovers that there are other huge underlying probs, and that Human rights violations are simply a bi-product of some sort of other dark issues in the culture or country.

At best, the world police are treating the symptom, not the cause.

There is no simple answer. The US will probably do what it (and other countries swooping in on the are) has done in this region in the past--arm some factions, let them fight it out, then come in when the dust settles to start the politic-ing.

The Romans did not get all of their territory by trying to change indigenous cultures, they just set up some power structures, add a few laws, etc. They obvioulsy felt as you do on the matter, Chris.

Keith
 
Chris and Ferrous;

"how a government treats it's people' does matter, and is our business, but not the reason for the War in Iraq. WE can get to that another time. Suffice to say absolutes stated such as that don't work. We stay out of other's affairs as long as we can. Mass genocide is often a reason for action.

We are fighting WW3 I'd rather more of take place there than in downtown NY. Modern terrorism is The Challenge of our current civilization. Quibbling about the reasons for Iraq is utterly ridiculous in the face of a few nuclear incidents in London, or Paris, or Detroit.


munk
 
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