Production M390 - Expectation vs Reality?

I don't know if I would separate the heat treatment from the final hardness. There are better ways than others to get the same hardness so I would group them together.
 
Larrin said:
I don't know if I would separate the heat treatment from the final hardness. There are better ways than others to get the same hardness so I would group them together.
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That’s very fair. I’m always trying to find the most approachable way to explain base concepts, for people who want the gist, but won’t necessarily deep dive. It seemed that drawing a distinction between the goals of appropriate hardness and desired structure refinement might help, but I’m always open to better language, analogies, etc.
 
I see hardness more as part of the result of the heat treatment. It is one measure of a steel’s properties so I wouldn’t break it out on its own. It’s almost like calling “corrosion resistance” one of the legs.
 
Following!this seems like a very interesting thread
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Larrin said:
I see hardness more as part of the result of the heat treatment. It is one measure of a steel’s properties so I wouldn’t break it out on its own. It’s almost like calling “corrosion resistance” one of the legs.
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Well explained. I think the adjustment might be a 3 legged stool analogy, where one leg is heat treatment, with a call out regarding desired results of heat treatment.
 
T.L.E. Sharp said:
Your perspective on the issue is off I think. The problem with an m390 blade at a low hrc isn't that it's a bad knife or that it can no longer be used when it goes dull, it's that the end user paid a large premium for that m390 upgrade expecting an increase in performance that wasn't delivered.

A Ferrari with a 3 cylinder diesel engine will still get you where you need to go, but you're going to be pissed if you were expecting a 12 cylinder fire breather.

All blades will need maintenance. High end super steels should need less maintenance. A lot less. When it comes to this recent flood of m390, 20cv, 204p knives that hasn't been the case.
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Like I said this is off topic, I was not* using my point to illustrate what HRC the m390 should be at.

Knives don't magically lose edges tho, that's not subjective. It's silly

And anyone saying it loses all credibility

Maintain your tools

I was again responding to the silly memes form the safe queen

Talking about ball bearings lol
 
Banter 247 said:
No one at all is suggesting to not maintain your tools.

1. Sharpening is removing material.

2. When you buy a knife, your cutting potential is basically determined by your behind the edge measurement, grind height, and stock thickness.

3. As you sharpen/remove material, you’re thickening the knife “behind the edge”, or slowly degrading it’s cutting efficiency.

4. The more frequently you have to sharpen in order to maintain a good apex, the faster your tool becomes less efficient. You’re also spending more time doing it.

5. In a perfect scenario, the end user has to spend less time, removing less material, to preserve the best cutting experience possible with the blade.

6. Well treated, properly hardened, appropriately selected steels, ground well, and maintained by removing as little material as possible to maintain a good apex -> where we want to be.
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Yea you're changing the variable via grind and sharpening

I get it.

You don't

You're the one who thinks tools are magically losing edges

And overpaying for steel when you could just get the same 440c blade 10 times doesn't make any sense.

Just put a new one in your bag don't worry about the old ones grind.

As if you're ever gonna wear any of those blades away lol you have a dozen high end knives. None of those blades ever gonna change unless you're just over sharpening.
 
BigWillie said:
Yea you're changing the variable via grind and sharpening

I get it.

You don't

You're the one who thinks tools are magically losing edges

And overpaying for steel when you could just get the same 440c blade 10 times doesn't make any sense.

Just put a new one in your bag don't worry about the old ones grind.

As if you're ever gonna wear any of those blades away lol you have a dozen high end knives. None of those blades ever gonna change unless you're just over sharpening.
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I like to treat these situations as opportunities to present clear points, so that observers can carefully consider what is being said by all involved parties, weigh the respective merits of the talking points, and benefit from the conversation. With that, thank you for your part in this exchange.
 
Banter 247 said:
I like to treat these situations as opportunities to present clear points, so that observers can carefully consider what is being said by all involved parties, weigh the respective merits of the talking points, and benefit from the conversation. With that, thank you for your part in this exchange.
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You act like your folding knife is a surgeons scalpel

It's absurd

"hurrr let me drop some knowledge on you younging sharpening removes steeel"

Yea i see that by the steel that falls off the blade and collects on the table. Thanks

Pay attention to your tools. And don't have so many duplicates in the same niche you can keep track.

And I assure you you'll never "magically" lose an edge again.
 
BigWillie said:
Like I said this is off topic, I was not* using my point to illustrate what HRC the m390 should be at.

Knives don't magically lose edges tho, that's not subjective. It's silly

And anyone saying it loses all credibility

Maintain your tools

I was again responding to the silly memes form the safe queen

Talking about ball bearings lol
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Ah, my mistake. Cheers!
 
Do you own a knife in M390?

BigWillie said:
You act like your folding knife is a surgeons scalpel

It's absurd

"hurrr let me drop some knowledge on you younging sharpening removes steeel"

Yea i see that by the steel that falls off the blade and collects on the table. Thanks

Pay attention to your tools. And don't have so many duplicates in the same niche you can keep track.

And I assure you you'll never "magically" lose an edge again.
Click to expand...
 
This and other recent discussions on steel have been very educational. I feel like I've been learning a lot. That's great but I'm also seeing a lot of people getting tied up in the details. However those details work out, we still have a core issue to consider. People paying the extra for a premium steel should be getting something for their money. I've been very curious about the cases where that isn't true, or is only marginally true.
 
Banter 247 said:
Well explained. I think the adjustment might be a 3 legged stool analogy, where one leg is heat treatment, with a call out regarding desired results of heat treatment.
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Hi,
don't
sit-on-it.jpg

don't sit on it, that stool analogy is falling apart/out


A better analogy is chocolate chip cookies / bread

Too much chocolate chip carbide and it wont hold shape
Too much carbon sugar, and its brittle
If you under bake 'em, they're play dough soft , low hrc
If you over bake 'em, they're brittle
After baking you gotta temper
Oil for drying rust resistance
...


世界一硬いパンの包丁はカーボンより硬い - sharpest Bread kitchen knife in the world - kiwami japan
 
Nah,
No offense, but that cookie baking analogy doesn't hold up.


bucketstove said:
Hi,
don't
sit-on-it.jpg

don't sit on it, that stool analogy is falling apart/out


A better analogy is chocolate chip cookies / bread

Too much chocolate chip carbide and it wont hold shape
Too much carbon sugar, and its brittle
If you under bake 'em, they're play dough soft , low hrc
If you over bake 'em, they're brittle
After baking you gotta temper
Oil for drying rust resistance
...


世界一硬いパンの包丁はカーボンより硬い - sharpest Bread kitchen knife in the world - kiwami japan
Click to expand...
 
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