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The two categories listed are "Beveled Axes" and "Plain Bit Axes".
Rare !!!Plumb axe help dating and other information
- Thread starter Yarin
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The two categories listed are "Beveled Axes" and "Plain Bit Axes".
rjdankert
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From this thread: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1373856-Help-Please-ID-a-couple-of-hatchets
Here are 2 that I don't know much about. Wonder if anyone can give me some info.
#1 (on the bottom) is a Plumb carpenters hatchet (I think) but looking from you to identify the age of this tool + whatever else you might know.
. . ..
Another one from ebay:
Bob
Ok, I got it now. Thanks, Steve.
So my original thought looks plausible. It looks to me like I have a 60s-era 3-lb Western pattern double bit from the Dreadnaught line.
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We have a lot of really good reference material in this thread. National axes, different finishes/grades, Permabond, etc. and some common names for different patterns and lines.
Im curious about The Jetwing. Introduced with Permabond? Also, I dont think I have seen a picture of one with a sticker. (Maybe havent Googled hard enough as well)
Are the Jersey patterns with bevels and the rounded lugs that we see/have the Jetwing model?
http://www.ecrater.com/p/6042216/1956-color-print-tool-ad-plumb
Lifted from Steves catalog post.
I am also curious about the marking placement of PLUMB at the poll and on the opposite side of the more common facing a right-handed user.
Im curious about The Jetwing. Introduced with Permabond? Also, I dont think I have seen a picture of one with a sticker. (Maybe havent Googled hard enough as well)
Are the Jersey patterns with bevels and the rounded lugs that we see/have the Jetwing model?
http://www.ecrater.com/p/6042216/1956-color-print-tool-ad-plumb
Lifted from Steves catalog post.
I am also curious about the marking placement of PLUMB at the poll and on the opposite side of the more common facing a right-handed user.
Indeed another puzzle. I have noticed over the past few years that hardened or heat-treated poll heads from many of the manufacturers are often stamped on the opposite side, but this is not gospel as there seem to be numerous exceptions. If you peruse the threads on rafting axes you'll see what I mean. The National below is stamped on the starboard side (most heads are stamped on the port or left side) but one of the Plumb catalogue descriptions of these say they are suitable for driving wedges.
More guesstimating. Presumably there was wide scale revelry (in USA) when Chuck Yeager broke the sound barrier in the Bell X-1 delta wing (Jet Wing?) rocket-powered airplane on 14 Oct 1947. Mach 2 (twice the speed of sound) was achieved also by an American in 1953 and not long after domestic automobiles, bicycles and even kitchen appliances started featuring decorative wings and jet type ornaments. Whether Jet Wing phantom bevel-type axes coincide with introduction of National pattern axes (patent 10 Sept 1948) or cashed-in on the mid to late 50s fin craze I don't know. That's where having a library of annual tool catalogues can prove to be really handy.
With Permabond being flaunted with Jet Wings, unless or until someone shows up with an NOS regular wedged version it looks to be 1956 and up is the era for Jet Wing models. With serious decline in the global axe industry by the mid 1960s you wouldn't think Jet Wings had a long production run either.
Edit; Poking around on Google allowed me to come across flea bay Jet Wing items. There was an 'already sold' ($275!) entry for an NOS Plumb box (with manufacture date 1/8/1972) containing two NOS Jet Wing axes. There are available 2 separately framed magazine ads for Jet Wing axes. The 1956 ad features Permabond whereas the 1954 ad makes no mention of it.
So if these items were correctly posted (I could no longer view the NOS box or the axes) then Jet Wings were definitely out there from 1954 to 1972 at very least..
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The earliest ads I've found for Jet Wings are in some publications dated 1954 (the year before Plumb started using Permabond in axes), describing Jet Wings as being "new".
Farm Journal - Volume 78 - Page 72
https://books.google.com/books?id=cSZHAAAAYAAJ
1954 - ‎Snippet view
The new axe that's PLUMB BEAUTIFUL Jet Wing Axes...
Country Gentleman - Volume 124 - Page 70
https://books.google.com/books?id=7hMgAQAAMAAJ
1954 - ‎Snippet view
...are combined in these new Jet Wing Axes ...
Here's a photo of the ad the 300Six mentioned that's supposedly from 1954 (with no mention of Permabond):
The latest mention I've found of Jet Wing being a Plumb brand was in this 1973 publication:
Standard Directory of Advertisers - Part 1 - Page 33
https://books.google.com/books?id=8toUAQAAMAAJ
1973 - ‎Snippet view
... JET WING Axe Fayette R. Plumb, Inc ...
The Plumb "National" pattern was patented 10 Sept 1948 which makes you think it wouldn't have showed up in stores until Thanksgiving or Christmas of 1948 and much more likely in 1949 but here are some curious shots of a National head that is currently listed at auction. Stamped on the left side is PATENT APPLIED FOR and on the right side of the head is PLUMB. The company obviously 'jumped the gun' about getting these on the market! So now the question is: for how long a period of time did this happen?
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Sept 10, 1948 was the date that Plumb got the copyright (and registered trademark?) for "Here's the new Plumb National axe". The earliest ads I've found were from 1948, proclaiming the National Axe as "new".
Hardware Age - Volume 162, Issues 8-9 - Page 23
https://books.google.com/books?id=y5ETAQAAMAAJ
1948 - ‎Snippet view
HERE'S THE NEW PLUMB NATIONAL AXE Choppers in all sections of the country were consulted in designing the PLUMB National AXE. Plumb took their preferences and combined them with modern science to produce a practical axe design that ...
Successful Farming - Volume 46 - Page 88
https://books.google.com/books?id=8I3mAAAAMAAJ
1948 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions
Now, at last, America has one National Pattern Axe. These feats of nature inspired the four outstanding features of the Plumb National Axe. If Falls True -- like a falcon in flight The Shearing Cut is like a beaver's bite...
I'm thinking that the stamp "Patent Applied For" is regarding the National Axe design. If a patent was subsequently awarded to Plumb for this design, I haven't found it yet, so maybe Plumb didn't succeed in getting a patent.
Sorry, I'm not well enough versed in difference between patent, copyright and registered trademark. Whatever, 10 Sept 48 does mean something and a 'Patent Applied For' stamp vs no such stamp must have some significance. Below is a shot of another National that is at auction, and an October 1951 ad for them.
And here's another thought. The fact that the paper sticker shown on the handle in the 1951 ad says 'springy hickory' etc and there is no physical stamp underneath (such as is the case of the non-Permabond National axe that I have, and a few others I've looked at) might indicate (of interest to the originator of this now lengthy thread (that began with an NOS hatchet!)) that gold paint outlined wood stamps pre-date a factory changeover to paper decals.
And here's another thought. The fact that the paper sticker shown on the handle in the 1951 ad says 'springy hickory' etc and there is no physical stamp underneath (such as is the case of the non-Permabond National axe that I have, and a few others I've looked at) might indicate (of interest to the originator of this now lengthy thread (that began with an NOS hatchet!)) that gold paint outlined wood stamps pre-date a factory changeover to paper decals.
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A store display made of cardboard, listed as 30" by 17", which must be from around 1948:
Just found this thread and wanted to post my Plumbs. I just got 3 of them but I've had the small hatchet for a couple years and I rehafted it but the other I haven't done much to yet.
Nice 'gathering' (as opposed to 'collection/school/herd/flock/troop/bevy'...) of axes you've got there. Spying the profile of the "Victory" (1945-1948?), and knowing what the 'Cedar' model looks like, I can see how the 'National' pattern evolved and came into being in 1948. By the way what are the head weights of these?
Steve Tall has theorized that Plumb might have differentiated the factory that made Nationals (there were two Plumb manufacture locations) via stamping on the right or on the left. Two of yours are unconventional (right side) and the third is standard. The Victory is also conventional stamped on the left.
Enjoy those old classics! The Victory model is definitely the oldest one and far as I know Nationals didn't survive The Ames takeover of Plumb in 1971 and for sure not the Cooper Tools takeover of Ames/Plumb in 1981.
Its interesting that rbeggs's middle national pattern with the permabond handle does not have the beveled poll. It is just left square kind of indicating a unhardened poll? I do not recall ever seeing a Plumb National pattern like that. But I do not think it is a Cedar axe.
Why some of those National patterns have hardened polls and others don't even though they look like they should with rafting pattern like polls will probably always remain a mystery to me.
Why some of those National patterns have hardened polls and others don't even though they look like they should with rafting pattern like polls will probably always remain a mystery to me.
rbeggs
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By the way what are the head weights of these?
I don't know the weights of any of them as they're not marked that I've seen so far and I don't have a scale but the Victory seems to be a 3 1/2 LB.
Often they are marked somewhere and 3 2 for instance would indicate 3 2/4 lb. and 1 3 would be 1 3/4 lb. Hardware stores carry various types of wire wheels for use in electric drills. These aren't abrasive enough to grind or damage steel and will clean up those heads very nicely.
You are correct, that one is lacking the bevelled corners and the poll is not as pronounced (ie tall) as a National, and you are right in that it doesn't correspond to the more 'butterfly shape' of a Cedar pattern either. The Permabond definitely puts this head in the 1955 and up era. An experimental, prototype, or a modified Cedar perhaps?
Hi guys,
Wow! How ironic I find this thread tonight as I just removed from storage two old GENUINE PLUMB Hatchets this very morning. Both identical Hatchets are "Boy Scout" Hatchets. They both have NON circle Boy Scout logo which are quite faded on both Axe Heads however, one can make them out by using a magnifying glass. Only one Head has an attached 12" handle. The other is just the Head without a handle. The Head weights 1.164 lbs. The Hatchets look just like the one from(borrowed, thank you) pictures here :
https://img1.etsystatic.com/033/1/7947782/il_570xN.632699737_qabl.jpg
https://img1.etsystatic.com/030/0/7947782/il_570xN.632699771_myc1.jpg
https://img1.etsystatic.com/026/0/7947782/il_570xN.632699803_8xq5.jpg
Oooh, there is NO use of Permabond. The 12" handle is pretty much natural looking Wood and the handle has several hair line cracks. I see no marking/wording or color/paint on the handle. I must say, there is just "something" about this size/style/weight Hatchet Head that "speaks to me". I think these PLUMBS are very cool! I'd like to find a little bit longer handle for the one (handle less) head. Would a 14-16" handle be OK with this head ? Oooh, might these Boy Scout Hatchets be from the 30's or 40's ? Thanks guys.
Regards,
HARDBALL
Wow! How ironic I find this thread tonight as I just removed from storage two old GENUINE PLUMB Hatchets this very morning. Both identical Hatchets are "Boy Scout" Hatchets. They both have NON circle Boy Scout logo which are quite faded on both Axe Heads however, one can make them out by using a magnifying glass. Only one Head has an attached 12" handle. The other is just the Head without a handle. The Head weights 1.164 lbs. The Hatchets look just like the one from(borrowed, thank you) pictures here :
https://img1.etsystatic.com/033/1/7947782/il_570xN.632699737_qabl.jpg
https://img1.etsystatic.com/030/0/7947782/il_570xN.632699771_myc1.jpg
https://img1.etsystatic.com/026/0/7947782/il_570xN.632699803_8xq5.jpg
Oooh, there is NO use of Permabond. The 12" handle is pretty much natural looking Wood and the handle has several hair line cracks. I see no marking/wording or color/paint on the handle. I must say, there is just "something" about this size/style/weight Hatchet Head that "speaks to me". I think these PLUMBS are very cool! I'd like to find a little bit longer handle for the one (handle less) head. Would a 14-16" handle be OK with this head ? Oooh, might these Boy Scout Hatchets be from the 30's or 40's ? Thanks guys.
Regards,
HARDBALL
rbeggs
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I've cleaned the Victory and it's not marked but I haven't got around to cleaning the other ones yet. Yes I clean with a 3" twisted wire cup brush on a 4" Dewalt angle grinder. I've cleaned up probably upwards of 300 axes and hatchets. That's not counting brush cutters, pulaski axes, kaiser blades hammers, old butcher knives, green river style skinning knives......it goes on and on! My wife says I have a sickness....
rbeggs
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I've never had a hardened poll axe that I know of. I "tested " the beveled poll Plumb axe with a file and it doesnt seem to be hardened but I could be wrong. I got excited when I first saw it thinking it might be hardened.