Rough Ryder Reserve: New Premium Rough Ryder Line

I think if they had gone with more traditional blade shapes and plain nail marks, they would give Case a real run for their money.
Perhaps enough for Case to start looking at their quality control issues. But maybe it's just a dream to hope for real good F&F and beautiful design at the mid-price point.
 
I don't want to get political or off topic but I do want to touch on the origin of the knives. I personally avoid Chinese made knives but I will say that what I am seeing and reading about these new RRR knives is appealing and tempting but for now I myself will continue to avoid the purchase of such knives. More on point I think these knives look fantastic and they will to me more so fill the niche left behind by Queen at seemingly a slightly lower price point.
 
Ramrodmb said:
I'm not sure why it's such a sin to not like where they are made. Or how respectful discussion of that counts as "politics".:thumbsdown: It's always been that way though.
No dissenting opinions allowed, please! Just keep out!:eek:
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Squid61 said:
If I'm asked to pay "Made in the USA" Case prices for Chinese knives, I'm going to buy "Made in the USA" Case knives not Chinese.
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PirateSeulb said:
I don't want to get political or off topic but I do want to touch on the origin of the knives. I personally avoid Chinese made knives but I will say that what I am seeing and reading about these new RRR knives is appealing and tempting but for now I myself will continue to avoid the purchase of such knives. More on point I think these knives look fantastic and they will to me more so fill the niche left behind by Queen at seemingly a slightly lower price point.
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Really? Stating that you won't purchase a product because of it's country of origin isn't a political statement? We'd all like to see more American made knives, including me. Nothing wrong with not liking where they are made. It just doesn't belong here, as part of the dicussion.

There's a subforum for political discussion; Welcome to the Arena. Read before posting. UPDATED 9/11/08.
Take it there, please.
 
For me it is disappointing to see another wasted potential from them, especially as RR are almost the only traditionals available here. Sometimes it looks like their fancier series are run by random number generator putting together some good ideas together with bad that don't work well together or at all. I really like the idea of better quality for still affordable price, but why can't they just make a regular shape trapper, swayback or teardrop with better steel and no experimentation.

This series looks like good idea ruined by stupid blade shapes. Canoe is OK, but I had bad experiences with their canoes weak springs.
VG-10 series was a great idea to have steel upgrade and screw construction, ruined by small size and aluminium handle. And it looks like the series is already abandoned and no new models with better design coming.
Upswept trapper and micarta work knife I read were sold out in minutes and ended up on auction sites for many times the price. Didn't they know the obvious that it will be very popular and couldn't make a bigger order and wait until more are stocked? I bet they will be again sold out and discontinued long before they get to Europe.

I don't understand it, they figured out just fine how to do regular 440, bone handle knives. But every time they do something potentially better, there is always an issue that a knife hobbyst would instantly recognise.
 
Peregrin said:
Really? Stating that you won't purchase a product because of it's country of origin isn't a political statement? We'd all like to see more American made knives, including me. Nothing wrong with not liking where they are made. It just doesn't belong here, as part of the dicussion.

There's a subforum for political discussion; Welcome to the Arena. Read before posting. UPDATED 9/11/08.
Take it there, please.
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We will have to agree to disagree, I guess. I just don't understand why it's sooo taboo- AS LONG AS IT REMAINS RESPECTFUL DISCUSSION.
But, you're the boss, here. :thumbsup:
 
Watching trends ebb and flow on this subforum has been most enjoyable.

There was a time a GEC #15 with one arm blade was the desire of the month, and if a new jack pattern release didn't have an easy open notch it was sub optimal, better send it out to get modded. Oh and northwoods anything with Denim Micarta was unobtainable unless you were lucky to camp a KSF release on a fast internet connection. Had any of these three knives appeared on GEC's production schedule the reaction would be vastly different.
 
jrawk said:
Watching trends ebb and flow on this subforum has been most enjoyable.

There was a time a GEC #15 with one arm blade was the desire of the month, and if a new jack pattern release didn't have an easy open notch it was sub optimal, better send it out to get modded. Oh and northwoods anything with Denim Micarta was unobtainable unless you were lucky to camp a KSF release on a fast internet connection. Had any of these three knives appeared on GEC's production schedule the reaction would be vastly different.
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That's just it. None of these would appear on the GEC schedule. A one arm blade with an E/O notch? Am I the only one to see the irony here? A weird tacticool canoemoose? I guess the third one is the closest to what I would recognize as traditional. YMMV
 
They should have started with more basic patterns. Even though I won't be buying them, I'm happy to see they have fit and finish as a top priority. I mean, what else are we getting from companies besides GEC?

It might have blade play, gaps, and crappy centering but now we have it in purple!! Sorry Case, but it is what it is....
 
Ramrodmb said:
That's just it. None of these would appear on the GEC schedule. A one arm blade with an E/O notch? Am I the only one to see the irony here? A weird tacticool canoemoose? I guess the third one is the closest to what I would recognize as traditional. YMMV
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But a knife with a beard comb and fork was obvious and anticipated from GEC for years.

As for the blades on the canoe, there are many many custom traditional knife makers who have been producing those blade shapes for many years. One being Tony Bose's young apprentice who got his start here on this forum modding GEC's.

Rough Ryder is taking note of positive trends in the collectible knife world. I wonder, when the first RRR with beard comb is released will that gain the brand any more BF street cred? Or will it be considered a copy cat move, without doing something original?
 
Im not interested in these, theyre just too weird for me. I like my traditionals to be traditional. Lol I dont get the hate though. :confused:

If Case put out a Tony Bose knife like these, with d2 and micarta (and he does design some edgy looking knives, maybe not this weird true, but play along) people would be throwing their money at Case. If GEC came out with these people would be reselling them for $200 on the Exchange and talking about how theyre pushing the envelope and they would gush about d2 steel. People buy those silly hipster beard comb knives from GEC and gush about them. A beard comb just like the pioneers used, made lovingly just like our forefathers made them. Let that sink in. :rolleyes:

RR does something new, with better materials than GEC puts out, and people hate it? If it makes you feel better, you could send it off to get a blade etch that says GEC or Northwoods. (I can feel the GEC lovers forming the angry mob now. Using only the finest Farm and Field brand pitchforks and torches Im sure) :rolleyes:

All joking aside, I dont like the designs here. They look pretty bad to me but Im not the target audience. I like RR when theyre cheap.:D And I dont love that theyre Chinese, but I am typing this on a phone made on China. Just embrace the hypocrisy folks, its great! :D
 
brownshoe said:
Arrow head shields have been around longer than Northwoods. Scagel used it I believe.
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Travman said:
KnivesShipFree is the current owner of the Northwoods and Scagel brands and before that it was Dave Shirley. So it makes sense that KSF uses the arrowhead shield on their current Northwoods.

But my original point is valid. The only reason these new RR knives have a arrowhead shield is to try to take some of brand recognition from the current popular Northwoods knives.
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Sorry to bust your bubbles. :(

The arrowhead shield dates back to the 1800's.

Travman, The only people who've even heard of Northfield are folks who hang out at knife forums, like this one, or heard about them on Twitter, Facebook, possibly You Tube, or some other social media..
The same can be said for GEC.
Do either buy advertising in Field and Stream, Outdoor Life, or any magazine targeting hikers, shooters, etc. who's activities would increase the likelihood they'll buy a knife at least for when they are out doing whatever they like to do, or even in Playboy magazines?

Of course not. If nothing else, they don't produce enough knives to meet demand now, let alone the additional demand from "hipsters" and such if they were to advertise nationally. Advertising nationally could well add 20,000 and more to the demand for any particular pattern run.
Lets be honest. GEC does not have the manufacturing capacity to even come close to meeting demand if they were to effectively advertise nationally. That isn't meant as a knock or bash on GEC, by the way. It is only the simple truth.

Aside from large manufactures such as Case, Buck, Puma, Böker, Ontario, Victorinox SAK, and maybe a couple of the big "kitchen knife" manufacturers, cutlery companies generally don't buy advertising in the appropriate magazines or on the Saturday/Sunday morning and afternoon hunting and fishing TV shows.
They rely on word of mouth on social media/forums. (all cutlery (and firearms) manufacturers rely on word of mouth to some extent)

Most people don't hang out at/on a knife forum, or a forum where knives get much discussion. (this includes archery, camping, hiking, and hunting/fishing forums).
At best, they know the brands of knives sold at the local big box stores, and on Amazon and eBay.
I've never seen a GEC or related brand available on Amazon. Have you? Those on eBay are all high priced "New in Tube"/"Like New In Tube and "New/Like New No Tube" used knives, unlikely to garner much interest from someone who isn't a collector or "knife nut" looking for a specific GEC they missed out on by not getting their order in sometimes a few seconds to a minute or two after it was released. (and who are well aware they are going to be "taken to the cleaners" price wise, on the secondary market.

In short, the "Average" person has never heard of GEC and the related companies, believe the original Queen Cutlery and most of the other old names went bankrupt and shut down in the 1930's, during the great depression, and haven't been made since.

Most of those who do know what a Northwoods is, "wouldn't want to be caught dead" with a Rough Rider, or any of the long dead but in name only now made offshore knives, from what I've read on BF.
They won't buy the Rough Ryder no matter how nice it is, or what shield it has or doesn't have.

I've been a member here since 2014. Prior to joining BF, I'd never heard of GEC, or post 1930's production Northwoods, Northfield, and Queen knives. Until this thread, I didn't know Northwoods "normally" has an arrow shield.
Truth to tell, I thought Nothwoods was just another brand owned by GEC.

I don't know anyone for who the shield is a deal maker or deal breaker.

Shields are not proprietary designs. (The cross imprinted or stamped on SAK handles isn't really a "shield" but is proprietary.)
If they were, you can bet your bottom penny they would be patented, trademarked, and copyrighted (©) so no one else could use them.

How many different cutlery companies over just the last 150 years (since 1880) have used the bomb shield (both single and double) and plain oval shield? "All of them" is the correct answer. :)
Several cutlery companies used the arrowhead shield prior to World War one, and again between World War 1 and 2. Many more than Northwoods and Rough Ryder have used it since World War 2, as well.
Rather than "stealing brand recognition" (of a brand most folks have never heard of, no less) by using that shield, a more likely explanation is: "The designers and marketing team thought it looked the best."

Heck, not even the Horse Shoe shield used on some (but not all) Rough Ryder/Rough Rider knives isn't a proprietary design, and was used on knives long before Rough Rider/Rough Ryder was started.

I'm not in the customer base Northfield and/or GEC (and when they were still in business, Queen, CSC, and the other high end "collector" brands) sell their products to.

Heck, at the price point SMKW has their new Queen Cutlery/Queen City lines at, I'm not in their sights as a potential customer for those lines, either. Which is fine. :)

Sorry for the rant. :(
 
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The middle knife is alright to me...however, the nail nick design is a deal breaker.
 
Ramrodmb said:
We will have to agree to disagree, I guess. I just don't understand why it's sooo taboo- AS LONG AS IT REMAINS RESPECTFUL DISCUSSION.
But, you're the boss, here. :thumbsup:
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Squid61 said:
I will never apologize for being pro-American Made.
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I understand what you're saying, and I like things made here in my backyard, too, but the Moderator isn't trying to censor you. He has even given you the appropriate forum to voice your opinions, so if anything you're encouraged to speak your mind in the appropriate forum. You're not wrong in your beliefs, the idea is that the discussion is supposed to be about the knives, that's all. :)

Not buying something because of where it is made is extrinsic to the product itself; the reasons generally being political (economics/job creation/governments/etc).
Example: it's made in <<insert country here>> and I don't want my money leaving the USA.
Example: my grandpappi fought those guys in <<enter war here>> so I'll never buy something from them!

Not buying something because of product concerns is intrinsic to the product; the reasons being about the knife itself (blade steel/product design/quality control/price point/etc.).
Example: I've had bad luck with quality control of the Rough Ryder products I've purchased in the past, so I will abstain from purchasing one.
Example: I've not had good luck with getting a good edge on D2 tool steel, so I'm not interested in these.
Example: at that price I'd rather just get a Case knife.

Moderators are looking to keep the conversation here about the intrinsic qualities of the knives. I hope we can all agree that any able-bodied person in the world who is provided sufficient tools, materials, knowledge and practice can build a good knife. The conversation is geared towards whether or not we'd consider buying a Rough Ryder product at a higher price point given the promise of better quality and 3 introductory knife options. If you're not going to buy one because of where it's made, that's fine- it just doesn't add anything to the discussion since it doesn't really discuss the knives themselves.

I hope that clears things up and you all have a great day.

As for me I'd definitely get one if they make something more "traditional". I've been thinking about it all morning. The pros are definitely hard to pass up:
  • D2 tool steel's good stuff, and I've had great luck with edge retention.
  • Micarta handles are durable
  • $40 for a single blade - sounds great to me. Case generally charges more.
Make a single bladed clip point or wharnecliff barlow @ 3.5" closed and we have a deal.
 
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