Sebenza 25 diminishing the value and collectibility of older knives

I don't see the 25 as hurting the value of the brand. There are some complaints as with anything, but it's a new model and will likely undergo some changes to fine tune it. People say things like, the "pocket clip hot spot problem", but that is not an issue for everyone, I am sure there are people who don't like the position of the clip on the 21 either. It's not a universal criticism, it's a complaint from some people. They still sell well. People have been criticizing the HT on the 21 for ages, 21's still sell well. Regular 25's are all there is at this point, and they sell almost instantly on the exchange. I tried to get the last TNK 25 and it was sold for $25 less than it cost new. I check the exchange at least 2 times a day and nearly every 25 is sold before I even see it. A NIB $25 loss... That is less loss than many regular 21's take. Users always take a bigger hit.

For me, and I am sure others like me, the 25 is all they will buy folder wise going forward, their 21's will end up sold, and they will bring people who were XM/Strider fans into the brand with the increased capabilities of the 25. They will only want a 25. I use to buy 21's, Unique w/ Damascus, but I never used them. As soon as I started using 21's, I wanted something tougher. I tried hinderer and strider, and with the release of the 25, came back to CRK. If there was no 25, I wouldn't be back with CRK.

I'll give an example from another item I have been trying to buy recently. I'm a tad shy of 6' 172 lbs. I need new work boots. I have a normal width size 11 foot, nothing remarkable. I can't find a decent fitting boot to save my life because the manufacturers have switched the toe box to what they are calling "King toe box". Why? Because so many north americans are fat, they needed to increase the width of the steel toe box to fit their fat little toes. Does this mean that brand XX is bad? No it means they are meeting the needs of the people they want to sell boots to, and it isn't me.
 
Count me as one of the uninitiated. I like the 25 the best. I prefer the thicker blade and the modified hollow grind and the larger pivot. I almost got an umnum even thoough I preferred the seb design before the 25 came out. When I held the 25 at Blade last year, I knew that was the one I d been waiting for. For me , the changes are improvements and I believe that Chris Reeve has judged the overall market well.
 
I have never seen or heard anything from CRK to suggest the 25 is intended to replace the 21. Although the numerical sequence might suggest it, I've always seen them as totally different offerings. The 25 is not an upgraded 21, its a new model, with its own features and market.

Has there ever been any official statement from CRK stating the 25 will replace the 21? Anyone got the facts?

My guess is an updated 21 (sebenza 28), with the bushing system and thinner blade stock, is more likely.

A dream that comes true I hope:thumbup:

I need to handle the 25 first, however, on paper it does nothing for me.
 
I think it's safe to say that any Chris Reeve knives will go up in value as they drop off the production line into the "discontinued basket". There is a pile of history and an army of collectors with CRK. It has been the case with every knife so far and I doubt the 25 is going to change that or cause any issues with CRK now or in the future.
 
Didn't the 21 replace the regular? Did regular prices go up or down?

I ask because I don't the answer... I'm guessing regulars prices went up?
 
I have never seen or heard anything from CRK to suggest the 25 is intended to replace the 21. Although the numerical sequence might suggest it, I've always seen them as totally different offerings. The 25 is not an upgraded 21, its a new model, with its own features and market.

Has there ever been any official statement from CRK stating the 25 will replace the 21? Anyone got the facts?

My guess is an updated 21 (sebenza 28), with the bushing system and thinner blade stock, is more likely.

My thoughts exactly-from start to finish
 
I think it will be awhile before the 21 goes anywhere and thats if it even does. Its as popular now as it has ever been. Inlays are easy to do for it. I will admit the inlays on that 25 I seen are the ugliest I have ever seen ( sorry Mr. Reeve ), but the 25 sells, in its plain version at least. Just because I dont care for the inlay 25 doesnt mean I would not be interested in CGG/UG 25's which I would be ALL OVER. I dont agree with the OP. Prices will go up on the 21's and the regulars, just like they have been. I have tons of regulars and would not think of parting with one now, even at their high prices.
 
It is already happening and it will cont. The growth of more and more 25 off spring. When I first held the 25 I loved it, still do. Why, size, size and size , very simple it finally fit my hand like the zaan. If Crk makes it and it fits my hand, I will buy it. I would not own and do not like the 21s or any other model except the 25 and zaan, why, size.. While speaking with CRK myself it became clear that plans are to run the various models off the 25 that came from the Seb. and the 21. In 6 months or less you will be discussing the smaller 25 that WILL be produced. Any bet takers, Chris and Ann not allowed.
Chris is a businessman who knows how to make money. I love Bigmark, no worrybeads. But remember CRK is becoming an "OLD" company.
 
NapTime, you know you are being provocative. You know exactly what to say and who your audiences are. Congratulations on being gentle with a hidden agenda. Numbers speak for themselves. In today's world , no one product can be all things to all people in its category. I have been following ebay, bladeforums, etc.. I have never seen such a low level of inventory of 2nd hand Sebenzas. While it's true that offering of second hand 25 in general has increased with overall inventory, the price it commands is still close to a new model. Introduction of 25 was the most successful launch of any CRK product. Until they come up with a revolutionary alloy or mechanism, both models will be offered. Don't forget that production cost of 21 is lower than a new product. While irs a cash cow, no one is discontinuing it. Today's Sebenzas sales are determined not by this feature or that, but rather by " sir may I have another" if I can afford it mentality.
 
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I respect your opinion, but think we're looking at different periods of time. In the near term will 21's and older increase in value? Probably.

Look past that. As Officer's Match stated, the 25 has dimmed his view of CRK a bit. CRK won't be able to live off their previous reputation forever.

Perception: older is better. We always want what we can't have. Real world example: look at the prices for S&W revolvers. Another example: look at the prices for the OPK range.

The Sebenza is a unique knife. The Umnu and 25 can (and I believe they will) continue to succeed, but that does not mean that the value of 21s and Classics and earlier Sebenzas will decline over the long term.
 
to the OP: no, I don't think so.
That beeing said - I do believe the BF users are not representative.
:)
red mag
 
Didn't the 21 replace the regular? Did regular prices go up or down?

I ask because I don't the answer... I'm guessing regulars prices went up?

It pretty much stayed the same. From what I've seen around the exchange and other secondary market, only the BG-42 and ATS-34 Sebenzas went up in value.
 
Count me as one of the uninitiated. I like the 25 the best. I prefer the thicker blade and the modified hollow grind and the larger pivot. I almost got an umnum even thoough I preferred the seb design before the 25 came out. When I held the 25 at Blade last year, I knew that was the one I d been waiting for. For me , the changes are improvements and I believe that Chris Reeve has judged the overall market well.

:thumbup: , though I will admit that I did remove my pocket clip. I did NOT do this because it was uncomfortable, though. I did it because I don't use pocket clips and because the knife feels even better without it...has nothing to do with a "hot spot" for me.
 
The 25 is a distinct product that replaced the Regular, Rather than have a 21 and a Reg. which were fairly similar CRK decided to increase the differences with a new idea. This results in a group that are going to like the 25 , but not the 21 an vice versa. What CRK does in the future with their models I have no idea, and Chris may not at this time. My guess would be that he continue making small modification to each. Maybe somewhere down the line he will mold them into 1 knife and introduce yet another knife. If the 21 were discontinued(God forbid) I am sure it would rise in value. It has a loyal following and people always want what they can't have, or is hard to get. Personally I have no desire at all to own a 25, but that's just me.
On a side note he will most likely address any issues with the 25 over time. His machinery is very expensive and he can't afford to make changes quickly unless the problem is very significant, much less throw out partially finished product..
 
If the knife itself is slowly moving away from features people desire, its logical that people will purchase the knife in fewer numbers. This leads me to believe the current Sebenza will eventually hurt the resale values of past models, due to a lack of future interest in the brand.

This doesn't make sense to me. I suspect that the 25 just makes the older models more desirable. They're better looking, more comfortable, and they have the bushings. If the 25 were superior to the old knives in every way, I suspect that would kill the desirability. To use a car analogy, does the current bloated and unloved Porsche 911 Turbo make the sublime and lovely 993 Turbo less desirable? No, the current version pushes enthusiasts into the older car.
 
This doesn't make sense to me. I suspect that the 25 just makes the older models more desirable. They're better looking, more comfortable, and they have the bushings. If the 25 were superior to the old knives in every way, I suspect that would kill the desirability. To use a car analogy, does the current bloated and unloved Porsche 911 Turbo make the sublime and lovely 993 Turbo less desirable? No, the current version pushes enthusiasts into the older car.

Having driven both extensively, I prefer the bloated and unloved 911 turbo...must explain why I prefer the 25. I have bad taste!
 
Having driven both extensively, I prefer the bloated and unloved 911 turbo...must explain why I prefer the 25. I have bad taste!

I'd be happy to love either Porsche, but do either have the smooth ride of my Wrangler:)
 
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I've appreciated reading everyone's thoughtful responses; both those who agree and disagree with my projections. There are two interesting points I've seen mentioned numerous times:

1. The assumption CRK will not discontinue the 21.
2. CRK will return to the bushing system. (We've already named it the 28, lol)

Both of these points puzzle me. The first because every generation of Sebenza has eventually replaced the last. The second point, I believe is wishful thinking. CRK has shown no indications it intends to come out with a next generation of Sebenza that returns to the bushing. I believe its more likely CRK continues to condense parts manufacturing between models. This includes pivots, pocket clips, screws etc.
 
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